[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[smooth]

May I suggest that the Monero core team hire others to disparage competitors, so as not to compromise the speed of Monero's development?

Concern trolling much?

No one is actively "disparaging competitors" and we certainly aren't going to hire people to do it. We are criticizing an instamine/premine scam with mediocre technology. It doesn't even matter whether it is a competitor or not (a reasonable argument has been made that it isn't). Bytecoin wasn't a competitor of anything when I criticized their ninjamine/premine scam, for example. I don't play favorites.

Ugh, moral crusaders. Whatever, just make me rich and we're all good.

Giving one's opinion on a topic of relevance is not being a "moral crusader". Labeling someone who does is really not an effective response. Though I'd also say the documented facts (as opposed to opinion) such as those I laid out a few posts back aren't as well known as you suggest. I would guess you didn't even know those, right?

Note by the way, that I have never said that DRK is a bad investment, short term at least.

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[Brilliantrocket]

Giving one's opinion on a topic of relevance is not being a "moral crusader". Labeling someone who does is really not an effective response. Though I'd also say the documented facts (as opposed to opinion) such as those I laid out a few posts back aren't as well known as you suggest. I would guess you didn't even know those, right?

Note by the way, that I have never said that DRK is a bad investment, short term at least.

I won't deny that I wasn't aware of some of the things you pointed out. I'll give you that much.

[wpalczynski]

Yes, but burning how many people with it as it crumbles?  And financially burning would be the least destructive outcome, what if there are serious repercussions due to compromised "anonymity"?

This could lead to people having their lives turned completely upside down and ruined by governments.

That's not something that you, or anyone in fact, can stop. People will do what they want, and face the consequences accordingly.

Is it not right to present them with facts in the face of FUD shilling so that they can make a decision based on truth rather then fiction?

[wpalczynski]

Yes, but burning how many people with it as it crumbles?  And financially burning would be the least destructive outcome, what if there are serious repercussions due to compromised "anonymity"?

This could lead to people having their lives turned completely upside down and ruined by governments.

That's not something that you, or anyone in fact, can stop. People will do what they want, and face the consequences accordingly.

You sound like a corrupt politician absolving himself of responsibility. Just because you can't make a horse drink water doesn't mean you lead him further into the desert.

Love that line dude. LOL

[fluffypony]

Ugh, moral crusaders. Fine, don't hire them, the community seems to be doing that job well enough. But do prioritize your time. Anyone can be a righteous crusader, pointing out evil wherever it dwells. Use your time to code. Anyway, just make me rich and we're all good.

Brilliantrocket you always make me laugh. For the longest time with all your Monero heckling I thought you may be a remnant of the Bytecoin trolls, but I've since decided that you're just self-serving (I don't say that as if it's a bad thing). Thanks for keeping us on our toes:)

[Brilliantrocket]

Ugh, moral crusaders. Fine, don't hire them, the community seems to be doing that job well enough. But do prioritize your time. Anyone can be a righteous crusader, pointing out evil wherever it dwells. Use your time to code. Anyway, just make me rich and we're all good.

Brilliantrocket you always make me laugh. For the longest time with all your Monero heckling I thought you may be a remnant of the Bytecoin trolls, but I've since decided that you're just self-serving (I don't say that as if it's a bad thing). Thanks for keeping us on our toes:)

Haha no problem. Just want to point out that your professionalism was one of the significant motivating factors that lead me to finally diversify into Monero.

[illodin]

Yes, but burning how many people with it as it crumbles?  And financially burning would be the least destructive outcome, what if there are serious repercussions due to compromised "anonymity"?

This could lead to people having their lives turned completely upside down and ruined by governments.

That's not something that you, or anyone in fact, can stop. People will do what they want, and face the consequences accordingly.

Is it not right to present them with facts in the face of FUD shilling so that they can make a decision based on truth rather then fiction?

What is this fiction?

[qqqq]

Just close today bitmonerod and reopen so it can't load a blockchain.

Code:

2015-Mar-23 01:02:37.217285 ERROR C:/bitmonero/src/common/boost_serialization_helper.h:108 Exception at [unserialize_obj_from_file], what=unsupported version
2015-Mar-23 01:02:37.217285 Can't load blockchain storage from file, generating genesis block.
2015-Mar-23 01:02:37.297285 ERROR C:/bitmonero/src/cryptonote_core/blockchain_storage.cpp:127 Failed to add genesis block to blockchain
2015-Mar-23 01:02:37.297285 ERROR C:/bitmonero/src/cryptonote_core/cryptonote_core.cpp:165 Failed to initialize blockchain storage
2015-Mar-23 01:02:37.297285 ERROR C:/bitmonero/src/daemon/daemon.cpp:255 Failed to initialize core

I guess it's a bug caused by storage blockchain after closing.

[Hueristic]

Our beloved core team member David Latapie is being considered for the hugely coveted title of Altcoin Gangster. Although in connection with his other coin, I think we should still give him some Monero love over here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=723764.0

Dave your gonna make the Digest with this one!

God I can't even catch up to this thread! Take a few days to get RLS done and bam 15 pages to wade through! I'm still like 3 back. Yesterday was quoting but didn't catch up enough to post anything.

Price looks great, new faces look good.

Onward and Upward boys!

[illodin]

Is it not right to present them with facts in the face of FUD shilling so that they can make a decision based on truth rather then fiction?

What is this fiction?

That drk is good for privacy.

How is that fiction? It is actually pretty good for privacy. Even in the state it is right now, and it's constantly being improved.

That drk wasn't insta, fast or opportunistically mined. Do you really think if Evan and his friends weren't the ones who benefitted most that the coin would not be relaunched? Don't rename it, relaunch it if you won't to avoid the scam label.

There is no one trying to deny many coins were mined fast in the beginning.


Maybe wpalczynski had different fiction in mind.

[generalizethis]

Can we please stop talking about Dash/Darkcoin* on the Monero thread?



*Please note that Dash/Darkcoin has been instamined for 2 million.

Yes, we (at least myself) can stop talking about evancoin on the Monero thread

*please note that evancoin's privacy is weak:

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zufu1/a_great_podcast_by_lets_talk_bitcoin_discussing/cpmvogy?context=3

[opennux]

Saying that a well-designed, intuitive, easily-used Graphical User Interface doesn't matter is simply ridiculous. I realize that fluffypony had a specific issue that he was making a point about when he wrote what he did regarding adoption, business integration, and the GUI.

However, a well-designed, intuitive, and easily-used Graphical User Interface are crucial for the success of virtually any piece of software or hardware in today's day and age.
Why is Apple so successful? I would argue that their GUI's, combined with the hardware to properly utilize the potential of their GUI's, is the entire basis of their success. Sure, marketing and reputation have been vital, but without good-looking GUI's their marketing department would be trying to put lipstick on a pig.

Why is Windows more popular than Linux? Linux is free, Windows costs money. Shouldn't people run the free OS more often? Windows is easily used. Linux has come a long way, but it inevitably requires substantially more effort for the average person.

If the Monero GUI can make the slope of the learning curve so easy to climb that Your Mom Can Use It, it will be vital in propelling the success of XMR that all of us are so eager to witness.

I hope it's been demonstrated with MyMonero that we know a thing or two about UX and simplicity, and that will translate to the GUI.

That said, it's simply not acceptable for us (to echo your words) to put lipstick on a pig and ship a GUI that is pleasant enough, but takes 4 days to sync from scratch, requires 6+gb of RAM, sucks a ton of bandwidth, and is accepted nearly nowhere.

We will deliver a proverbial work of art, but it requires building out parts of the foundation that we had previously viewed as less of a priority (until the 202612 attack). Oh, and we're doing it on like no money, so there's that.

I very much support this approach to the project, and it is one of the reasons (if not the main reason) to get involved with it.

[luigi1111]

Ugh, moral crusaders. Fine, don't hire them, the community seems to be doing that job well enough. But do prioritize your time. Anyone can be a righteous crusader, pointing out evil wherever it dwells. Use your time to code. Anyway, just make me rich and we're all good.

Brilliantrocket you always make me laugh. For the longest time with all your Monero heckling I thought you may be a remnant of the Bytecoin trolls, but I've since decided that you're just self-serving (I don't say that as if it's a bad thing). Thanks for keeping us on our toes:)

Haha no problem. Just want to point out that your professionalism was one of the significant motivating factors that lead me to finally diversify into Monero.

Been waiting for ages to bring this baby out:

duckNote Network and blockchain works perfect, like a Swiss clockwork.
XDN is not vulnerable like XMR, due to high developers professionalism.

Later,

Sure, now Monero devs can only offer excuses, because of the goal missed in their gates. Truly XMR devs and supporters are not quite adequate. They hate everyone. Very strange community.

I cry e'rytime.

[illodin]

Can we please stop talking about Dash/Darkcoin* on the Monero thread?



*Please note that Dash/Darkcoin has been instamined for 2 million.

Yes, we (at least myself) can stop talking about evancoin on the Monero thread

*please note that evancoin's privacy is weak:

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zufu1/a_great_podcast_by_lets_talk_bitcoin_discussing/cpmvogy?context=3

Timing analysis - can you detail the procedure or give an example how a timing analysis attack would be executed. What information could be extracted from a timing attack. If user is hiding his IP using tor or i2p is it still relevant?

Supermajority needs to be honest? No. Not even close.

[opennux]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

If I'm understanding gingerale correctly here, i think hes saying that kickstarter is a no go. Maybe indigogo though.

Hopefully somebody will look into it. Pure speculation here but I wonder if that means you can't give people cash equivalents as a reward. But maybe the project funding with no rewards or different rewards could still happen there (or as you say another crowdfunding site with good visibility).

You guys should talk about it amongst yourselves and see what sort of commitment you can come up with for what price. I know we talked about this before and you weren't willing to commit to delivering any particular product, but maybe you could commit to full time development for a given period of time. I think that would satisfy people. If you can come up with something that we could crowd fund than im sure we could find some way of accommodating that.

I disagree with this, as I have alluded to in other posts. Promises tend to get broken. If you don't promise much there's nothing much broken (especially the trust of people). And this is one of the core strengths of the core team. Their approach.

[illodin]

Can we please stop talking about Dash/Darkcoin* on the Monero thread?

It's been talked about here and in the speculation thread quite a lot the last week or two, and now all of a sudden you have a problem with it?

[Anon136]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

If I'm understanding gingerale correctly here, i think hes saying that kickstarter is a no go. Maybe indigogo though.

Hopefully somebody will look into it. Pure speculation here but I wonder if that means you can't give people cash equivalents as a reward. But maybe the project funding with no rewards or different rewards could still happen there (or as you say another crowdfunding site with good visibility).

You guys should talk about it amongst yourselves and see what sort of commitment you can come up with for what price. I know we talked about this before and you weren't willing to commit to delivering any particular product, but maybe you could commit to full time development for a given period of time. I think that would satisfy people. If you can come up with something that we could crowd fund than im sure we could find some way of accommodating that.

I disagree with this, as I have alluded to in other posts. Promises tend to get broken. If you don't promise much there's nothing much broken (especially the trust of people). And this is one of the core strengths of the core team. Their approach.

We match what their current employment is paying them for like 3 months and only ask is that they work on the project full time (i.e. 40 hours a week) for 3 months and that would be too hard of an obligation to keep? So difficult that we would risk them breaking their promise? That doesn't sound right to me.

[smooth]

Can we please stop talking about Dash/Darkcoin* on the Monero thread?

It's been talked about here and in the speculation thread quite a lot the last week or two, and now all of a sudden you have a problem with it?

Its logically more relevant to speculation given that the coins trade on the same markets, sometimes move together, sometimes opposite, and the future prospects of both coins are in some sense related to the other. I don't see how you can discuss speculation without that.

It doesn't directly relate to technology development or use of the coin itself to discuss other coin except as direct feature comparison maybe. I don't have a problem with responses to issues already discussed here though; no reason to be one sided about it. If you were showing up cold and spamming about DRK that would be different.

[smooth]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

If I'm understanding gingerale correctly here, i think hes saying that kickstarter is a no go. Maybe indigogo though.

Hopefully somebody will look into it. Pure speculation here but I wonder if that means you can't give people cash equivalents as a reward. But maybe the project funding with no rewards or different rewards could still happen there (or as you say another crowdfunding site with good visibility).

You guys should talk about it amongst yourselves and see what sort of commitment you can come up with for what price. I know we talked about this before and you weren't willing to commit to delivering any particular product, but maybe you could commit to full time development for a given period of time. I think that would satisfy people. If you can come up with something that we could crowd fund than im sure we could find some way of accommodating that.

I disagree with this, as I have alluded to in other posts. Promises tend to get broken. If you don't promise much there's nothing much broken (especially the trust of people). And this is one of the core strengths of the core team. Their approach.

We match what their current employment is paying them for like 3 months and only ask is that they work on the project full time (i.e. 40 hours a week) and that would be too hard of an obligation to keep? So difficult that we would risk them breaking their promise? That doesn't sound right to me.

Speaking in general terms here, its pretty hard for someone to give up ongoing current employment for a commitment of only three months of pay. Some people in some circumstances might be able to take a leave of absence or something and then have a job to go back to, but in general that doesn't really work unless people are by nature temporary workers or the like. Without a big chunk of funding to actually hire people ongoing (at least a year say) you are ultimately stuck with "available time" for the most part.

[Anon136]

What if monero was funded through fundraising website/programs? I know those websites usually dont allow you to give something in return to those who donate, but they could be directed to a monero exchange where they could buy some if theyd like.

Well, I got excited about checking out kickstarter, but they don't allow projects for "cash equivalent" things... they used some other word than things. I forget.

If I'm understanding gingerale correctly here, i think hes saying that kickstarter is a no go. Maybe indigogo though.

Hopefully somebody will look into it. Pure speculation here but I wonder if that means you can't give people cash equivalents as a reward. But maybe the project funding with no rewards or different rewards could still happen there (or as you say another crowdfunding site with good visibility).

You guys should talk about it amongst yourselves and see what sort of commitment you can come up with for what price. I know we talked about this before and you weren't willing to commit to delivering any particular product, but maybe you could commit to full time development for a given period of time. I think that would satisfy people. If you can come up with something that we could crowd fund than im sure we could find some way of accommodating that.

I disagree with this, as I have alluded to in other posts. Promises tend to get broken. If you don't promise much there's nothing much broken (especially the trust of people). And this is one of the core strengths of the core team. Their approach.

We match what their current employment is paying them for like 3 months and only ask is that they work on the project full time (i.e. 40 hours a week) and that would be too hard of an obligation to keep? So difficult that we would risk them breaking their promise? That doesn't sound right to me.

Speaking in general terms here, its pretty hard for someone to give up ongoing current employment for a commitment of only three months of pay. Some people in some circumstances might be able to take a leave of absence or something and then have a job to go back to, but in general that doesn't really work unless people are by nature temporary workers or the like. Without a big chunk of funding to actually hire people ongoing (at least a year say) you are ultimately stuck with "available time" for the most part.

Sure. I mean if that's the case with all of you guys than thats fine. But i figured that maybe one or two of you did contract work and we could hire those one or two. In the event that all of you have very traditional employment relationships, than its not necessarily out of the question that we could possibly raise enough money to fund you for a year. if we didnt, than no harm done, everyone gets their money back, thats the beauty of crowd funding.

Though if a 1 year + commitment was required that would lend some weight to what opennux was saying.