[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[smooth]

I just put non-pruned version of boolberry blockchain: http://boolberry.com/downloads.html#blockchain_proof, special for you, because you like to confuse people with speculations about this stuff.

No, you modified some of the signatures there. In the original version they were different.

(I know you didn't, but you can't prove it.)

The worse that we already discussed it with smooth and he knows that he is wrong here.

I could say the same. Let's not personalize a disagreement.

ps: i wondering, when you guys finally stop confuse people about my project ?!

That's not what's going on.

Ok.  So basically there isn't a live network that keeps the full ring signatures - but rather a download that Zoidberg can put together.  My only concern is I like the idea of a self sustaining system that can prove anonymity going all the way back (this is the tradeoff of pruning right?)

Wouldn't the best of both worlds be a pruned version and a full version with the client being able to specify which one to download?  Or would this even be practical / possible?

Yes it is possible to build such a system. Boolberry is not such a system.

Also, let's not confuse pruning (as defined by Bitcoin, meaning removing spent outputs from the chain, or at least from the pruned version of the chain) and trimming (removing some portion each transaction). What you describe can be used for both though.

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[rdnkjdi]

Also, let's not confuse pruning (as defined by Bitcoin, meaning removing spent outputs from the chain, or at least the pruned version of the chain) and trimming. What you describe can be used for both though.

Yeah ... I don't really understand any of it except in a very fuzzy way that might very well be wrong o.O

[crypto_zoidberg]

I just put non-pruned version of boolberry blockchain: http://boolberry.com/downloads.html#blockchain_proof, special for you, because you like to confuse people with speculations about this stuff.

No, you modified some of the signatures there. In the original version they were different.

(I know you didn't, but you can't prove it.)

changed one valid signautre to another valid signature? lol


Zoidberg

[smooth]

Also, let's not confuse pruning (as defined by Bitcoin, meaning removing spent outputs from the chain, or at least the pruned version of the chain) and trimming. What you describe can be used for both though.

Yeah ... I don't really understand any of it except in a very fuzzy way that might very well be wrong o.O

Let's say you have two transactions:

1. A -> B

2. B -> C

With pruning you can remove transaction #1 in its entirety because its output is no longer needed. Trimming doesn't do that, it removes a portion of each transaction. The difference becomes important when you have a large chain of transactions (for example in a long-running coin A->B, B->C ... Y->Z). In that case you can remove enormous numbers of earlier transactions with pruning (everything except Y->Z in the previous example), so the savings from pruning grows over time as the chain gets bigger. By contrast, the same portion of each transaction is removed with trimming.

Both pruning and trimming involve a tradeoff that the reduced version of the chain can't be fully validated by a new independent participant who downloads the chain. How significant that is becomes a value judgement. I don't really have a strong opinion about how important that actually is, but Bitcoin has generally considered that to be fairly important which is one reason why pruning (and some other optimizations) has never been implemented.

It is also not obvious how to do pruning in cryptonote coins since you can't in general identify which coins are spent.

[smooth]

changed one valid signautre to another valid signature? lol

Remember, I am a new participant, so I wasn't around when that transaction was being verified, and I have no way to know there was a valid signature there before. Maybe you personally ran most or all of the nodes and they never checked.

[Eastwind]

I just put non-pruned version of boolberry blockchain: http://boolberry.com/downloads.html#blockchain_proof, special for you, because you like to confuse people with speculations about this stuff.
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That is unlike Bitcoin or Monero where you as a new user, on your own, can literally check every single transaction back to the genesis block and don't need to trust anyone to tell you they all followed the rules.

Not true, again.
You can do it for BBR as well, using this full version of blockchain you can mathematically prove that all transactions followed network rules.

The worse that we already discussed it with smooth and he knows that he is wrong here.


Zoidberg


ps: i wondering, when you guys finally stop confuse people about my project ?!

How do you keep the full blockchain? Which software (switch) do you use?

[dnaleor]

One reason is that since it got on exchanges, coin was cheaper only once. And there was never not even one trade made for less then 3 times cheaper as it is now.

that isn't true... I bought my first moneroj at 0.000212 BTC 
(not very much unfortunatly. had the chance to buy 5000, bought only 500)

[crypto_zoidberg]

Not true, again.
You can do it for BBR as well, using this full version of blockchain you can mathematically prove that all transactions followed network rules.

The worse that we already discussed it with smooth and he knows that he is wrong here.


Zoidberg


ps: i wondering, when you guys finally stop confuse people about my project ?!

Zoidberg - can you elaborate?  You're saying that you can't prove it as a client with a pruned blockchain - but you CAN prove it with a full blockchain.  Are there two different networks running where you can download the full blockchain if you want - or the pruned one if you want?

I'm more interested in truth than pissing contests ....

There is no need to have two BBR networks. This is very simple. Normal (standart client) use checkpoints, to speedup blockchain loading (every currency have it, including bitcoin). Under checkpoints some checks are skipped. This based on idea the users trust developers and their checkpoints.

But, if some "new user" don't want to use checkpoints(don't trust developers), and want to completely validate(mathematically) whole blockchain from genesis block, then he build hi own manual client(or provide some command line params, depends of implementation) and completely validate whole blockchain. In BBR can do simple the same just by taking this complete version of blockchain, and do this verification for every transaction.

[rdnkjdi]

Again.. Cryptographers of THEIR choice. Cloak had their anon 'verified' as well (I made a lot off Cloak, because I knew when to sell).

This was said about the cryptonote coins.  I'm curious as to if who verified the provable anonymity of cryptonote is public information..  I've heard several statements that the Monero team paid people for independent verification who were qualified but never seen any names.

[fluffypony]

Again.. Cryptographers of THEIR choice. Cloak had their anon 'verified' as well (I made a lot off Cloak, because I knew when to sell).

This was said about the cryptonote coins.  I'm curious as to if who verified the provable anonymity of cryptonote is public information..  I've heard several statements that the Monero team paid people for independent verification who were qualified but never seen any names.

That is by choice, they will reveal themselves later on if they choose to.

There are well know cryptographers, such as gmaxwell and andytoshi who have verified the cryptography independently. You are welcome to either ask them, or look through their post history.

[Este Nuno]

Again.. Cryptographers of THEIR choice. Cloak had their anon 'verified' as well (I made a lot off Cloak, because I knew when to sell).

This was said about the cryptonote coins.  I'm curious as to if who verified the provable anonymity of cryptonote is public information..  I've heard several statements that the Monero team paid people for independent verification who were qualified but never seen any names.

Greg Maxwell has looked in to it. I don't know if he's done that to the extent where he's gone on record making a comment about the crypto(edit: nm I see fluffypony posted above now). He also may have done some work for XMR under a pseudonym(pure speculation on my part, but I think that's what he would do). He has publicly shown interest in the CN tech though. I remember reading him talking about it on Hacker News a while ago.

Peter Todd has also publicly done work for XMR I think, but I don't know if that was related to analyising the crypto or just some code review type stuff.

[drawingthesun]

We are about to go below 0.002 as a long trend.

Is this coin dead? Feeling kind of crap as my investments in CryptoNote coins have been smashed against Bitcoin, which isn't even doing too well itself.

[superresistant]

We are about to go below 0.002 as a long trend.
Is this coin dead? Feeling kind of crap as my investments in CryptoNote coins have been smashed against Bitcoin, which isn't even doing too well itself.

Monero never been so alive. Don't believe that the marketcap at a moment say anything about the future.
We need to focus on development. Developers need funds as an incentive to do their best.
We also need ideas and side projects.

I plan to sell some of my altcoins to buy Monero as it is cheap.
Unfortunately other altcoins are low too. Monero is not the only one.
Remember : Buy low, Sell high
When the price go down, buy more. When it goes up, sell some.

[Come-In-Behind]

Bitcoin overall is going down and down. I even read a post on the general disussion bitcoin thread about one of those early adopters turning away from btc and into alts....

maybe alts should start having USD/EURO/CNY pairings for altcoins, instead of being paired with btc, As bitcoins pretty much bringing down the price on all alts atm, and im tired of alts being tied to btc.

[slapper]

Bitcoin overall is going down and down. I even read a post on the general disussion bitcoin thread about one of those early adopters turning away from btc and into alts....

maybe alts should start having USD/EURO/CNY pairings for altcoins, instead of being paired with btc, As bitcoins pretty much bringing down the price on all alts atm, and im tired of alts being tied to btc.

This is one of the most underrated strategies that alt coin proponents don't develop enough. It is not the job of the developers either and it should come at a stage before real life "adoption". The future of any altcoin will depend on having exclusive fiat/alt pairs, independent and probably exclusive of BTC/ALT to not portray it as an easy way to grab bitcoins from altcoin speculators.

[burnbabyburn71]

We are about to go below 0.002 as a long trend.

Is this coin dead? Feeling kind of crap as my investments in CryptoNote coins have been smashed against Bitcoin, which isn't even doing too well itself.

It wouldn't be a cryptocurrency without some volatility

[Febo]

Bitcoin overall is going down and down. I even read a post on the general disussion bitcoin thread about one of those early adopters turning away from btc and into alts....

maybe alts should start having USD/EURO/CNY pairings for altcoins, instead of being paired with btc, As bitcoins pretty much bringing down the price on all alts atm, and im tired of alts being tied to btc.

If that happen will be bad for alts at least on short term.
I am sure there are many investors, that invest in alts so much since they believe that if bitcoin will raise x10 in USD price all alts will also. If there would not be this believing, many would pull out part of majority of  their investments.

[Come-In-Behind]

Bitcoin overall is going down and down. I even read a post on the general disussion bitcoin thread about one of those early adopters turning away from btc and into alts....

maybe alts should start having USD/EURO/CNY pairings for altcoins, instead of being paired with btc, As bitcoins pretty much bringing down the price on all alts atm, and im tired of alts being tied to btc.

If that happen will be bad for alts at least on short term.
I am sure there are many investors, that invest in alts so much since they believe that if bitcoin will raise x10 in USD price all alts will also. If there would not be this believing, many would pull out part of majority of  their investments.

Well, it'd definitely be better for them in the longterm.

I'm saying that Alts can still be tied to BTC partially(during uptrends), since they are all cryptocurrencies, but they need to start cutting themselves off from Bitcoin(having their own payment processors, their own exchanges, and etc) in some ways so if bitcoin is in a bearish state, it wont affect the alts that much.

[shojayxt]

Bitcoin overall is going down and down. I even read a post on the general disussion bitcoin thread about one of those early adopters turning away from btc and into alts....

maybe alts should start having USD/EURO/CNY pairings for altcoins, instead of being paired with btc, As bitcoins pretty much bringing down the price on all alts atm, and im tired of alts being tied to btc.

If that happen will be bad for alts at least on short term.
I am sure there are many investors, that invest in alts so much since they believe that if bitcoin will raise x10 in USD price all alts will also. If there would not be this believing, many would pull out part of majority of  their investments.

Thats exactly what happening.  People have been pulling money out of alts into bitcoin for months.  Now they are moving out of bitcoin into fiat.  Many people have made significant profits.  You can't spend altcoins so you need to turn it into fiat via bitcoin to buy that single malt scotch, new car, kitchen remodel, etc...  Some people have made tremendous amounts of money.  They want to enjoy it not watch it shrivel away.

[Techone]

We are about to go below 0.002 as a long trend.

Is this coin dead? Feeling kind of crap as my investments in CryptoNote coins have been smashed against Bitcoin, which isn't even doing too well itself.

It wouldn't be a cryptocurrency without some volatility

I remember a day back in October 2011 I read almost the same discussion on a Bitcoin forum. Bitcoin was going from 5 USD to almost 2 USD in a few days and I got quite a stack of BTC in my wallet.
I decided to do my usual day-to-day work and do not care so much. A youtube video I was watching on my phone while waiting for the breakdown service to get to my car reminded me that I got a bitcoin wallet on one of my old usb sticks sitting in a jar on a windowsill collecting dust. It was a few days before Christmas 2013. I sold them all, got a nice replacement for my old VW Golf 3 and some nice things for my kids&wife.

Moral of the story: Do not call a coin dead _before_ it is dead. Just keep what you got and come back later if you are unsure, or get all you can afford and wait for your happy moment.