| Nxt | Blockchain Platform | Proof of Stake | Official

[martismartis]

All child chains will be for public use, every user could use child chain tokens. Of course, some child chain tokens will be backed up by some business or gateways with peg service to crypto/fiat, but this do not mean that it will have some restrictions for using them.

[1713999031]

1713999031

[1713999031]

1713999031

[1713999031]

1713999031

[barabbas]

All child chains will be for public use, every user could use child chain tokens. Of course, some child chain tokens will be backed up by some business or gateways with peg service to crypto/fiat, but this do not mean that it will have some restrictions for using them.

That's not my understanding at all... and maybe it's just semantics: If you consider "public use" the usage of the main Ardor blockchain, then every child chain will be public. But that in fact is not true. As a matter of fact only the IGNIS childchain is supposed to be public (in fact, just another asset or token). All other childchains, at least in intention, will be purchased by private parties and, obviously, won't have any public use at all. They all will use the Ardor blockchain but that's it, the whole childchain would be owned by whoever purchases it and the only benefit to Ardor holders will be -if the "forge"- the "gas" (fee) those private owners will pay to the bundlers for their transactions, payment that will be made in Ardor coins, not in the childchain token.

So either you or me have this all wrong. What you state doesn't make any sense at all. Why would a private company, for instance, purchase a childchain if not to have complete control -and access control- to that child chain?

[martismartis]

There will be many use cases. Of course, some private project can restrict usability of their child chain for public users (to use child chain token, you need to have it). But majority of child chains will be for public use. Why do you think some pegged child chain to fiat/crypto will restrict it's usability. No sense here. Also, Adel and Janus projects are planning to move to their own child chains. Also, the latest announcement about child chain owner is at: https://www.jelurida.com/bitswift Do you think it will be private child chain, restricted to public.
So your statement, that only Ignis will be public is not correct. You do not read resources or you do not understand what do you read

[barabbas]

There will be many use cases. Of course, some private project can restrict usability of their child chain for public users (to use child chain token, you need to have it). But majority of child chains will be for public use. Why do you think some pegged child chain to fiat/crypto will restrict it's usability. No sense here. Also, Adel and Janus projects are planning to move to their own child chains. Also, the latest announcement about child chain owner is at: https://www.jelurida.com/bitswift Do you think it will be private child chain, restricted to public.
So your statement, that only Ignis will be public is not correct. You do not read resources or you do not understand what do you read

I do read and, for the most part, understand quite well. What you are now saying is that NXT current assets, such as Janus and Adel, will move to Ardor -which remains being NEXT (version 2.0)- and maybe to their own blockchains. Well first I fail to see what use they may have for their own child chains (I see that, for example, Ardor will be able to automatically manage their profit distribution, which NXT can't). And second,  what would be the advantage,  of having a private chain as opposed to use Ardor, or Ignis straight?

Bitswift is something else and, as I understand it -again all of this is sooo unnecessarily confusing- they are building their own childchain on top of Ignis? Not only that, they are promoting themselves to the NXT community with a bounty? And they have chosen Ignis because of the "security" the platform provides? How is that security proven and tested. Very few people -comparatively- uses NXT, to begin with while IGNIS will be something completely new -therefore unproven and untested in real life- so it sounds like a lot of BS, frankly. As stated above, there are no figures with any degree of credibility that show just how secure, or anonymous, or capable, or fast the Next blockchain is, or the ardor blockchain will be and much less the IGNIS one. So, sorry, it is just a pile of rubbish and, again, as stated before, no organization worth its salt will ever risk using such unproven and untested platform. Mickey Mouse organizations in search of promotion within an established community is one thing, serious organizations adopting the platform -will not happen- something else entirely. You do know, I am sure, that at present times there are many banks, financial institutions worldwide and many other corporations that are in different phases of implementing blockchain technology -which, by the way, is itself not ready for such primetime either, not even Ethereum the most advanced currently-. None of these will ever touch NXT/ARDR.

Put it more simply, not even Ethereum can handle the speed and volume of transactions that the financial institutions of today require. And you believe that NXT/ARDR can? Well, you probably do. It will be just you and maybe a few wishful thinkers. But, EVEN IF IT DOES HANDLE THE VOLUME AND THE SECURITY, even if that would by some miracle be the case, no one would take the risk of testing it by using it in real life situations. Why would they? Again: Not. A. Chance.

[martismartis]

NXT CAN automatically distribute dividends to asset holders, same feature will be available on Ardor child chains. Or you are talking about something else?
And no, Bitswift is not building on top of Ignis, they will have their own child chain with their own native token. Seems you do not full understand what are child chains and how they work. I'd suggest you test Ardor on testnet at https://ardor.jelurida.com/index.html, maybe it will open your eyes a little bit. Create account on it, post here your Ardor testnet account id and I will send you some test tokens to play with.

[lurker10]

...not even Ethereum can handle the speed and volume of transactions that the financial institutions of today require. And you believe that NXT/ARDR can?

There is no requirement to believe anything, you just need to look into the technical matters to gain knowledge. Leave believing to religions.

Ardor was designed and can process up to 100 tps ON-CHAIN using $1000 laptops in a completely decentralized network of blockchain. Is this the level of volume processed by financial institutions? Of course not if we talk about payment networks such as Visa.

But: a) this is 35x more than Bitcoin can process (3 tps); b) according to Vitalik, Ethereum can do 7-15 tps in its current implementation.

[d5000]

My understanding of "child chains", in this case, is that they are  private blockchains supported by the main. Except for IGNIS that will be public or semi-public, therefore yet another token.

A good source to read is the good ol' NXT 2.0 overview.

Child chains are, by default, public. They are not a real "blockchain" but simply a transaction type of the main chain that can be pruned after 1440 blocks and then can be archived separately. New child chains can be "backed" by a business in the form of an IOU, like NXT assets/"monetary system" currencies.

As far as I understand the roadmap, the creation of child chains is only restricted in the first period (up to early 2018) and then an automated process will be delivered where everyone could build private or public child-chains, in the same way today a "monetary system" currency is launched - only that probably the fee will be higher.

For me, however, the main feature of Ardor is the child chain pruning mechanism. It's not that it cannot be replicated by other platforms, but it's the first of its kind available now. For every full node operator I imagine it's a great relieve only having to process and store 1/35 of the data normally needed when syncing the first time.

My main point though remains that regardless how you want to call the traffic that the main blockchain will support, even at a minimal level of success, would be a quantum leap compared with current traffic and that since it cannot be stress tested we are left with just pretensions as to security, speed and capacity.

I don't see that much differences with respect to the NXT asset exchange that in 2014/15 had decent traffic. And every platform has a "first time". It's a chicken and egg problem, but the egg has been "created" successfully in other platforms like Ethereum - why should Ardor not be able to do that? The most obvious strategy would be to gradually increase the size/importance of the organizations that form part of the target public of the platform.

[barabbas]

...not even Ethereum can handle the speed and volume of transactions that the financial institutions of today require. And you believe that NXT/ARDR can?

There is no requirement to believe anything, you just need to look into the technical matters to gain knowledge. Leave believing to religions.

Ardor was designed and can process up to 100 tps ON-CHAIN using $1000 laptops in a completely decentralized network of blockchain. Is this the level of volume processed by financial institutions? Of course not if we talk about payment networks such as Visa.

But: a) this is 35x more than Bitcoin can process (3 tps); b) according to Vitalik, Ethereum can do 7-15 tps in its current implementation.

Which is, precisely, the reason why Bitcoin is -for now- a storage of value thing and NOT -nor will it be- a cheap (yeah, right, ask Coinbase....) blockchain solution for financial transfers. Ethereum could and probably will be, but for now not even ethereum. Ripple is the only one going in that direction, but still quite far from there. But, as far as security, all of those have been stress tested (they are on a daily basis) while Ardor is a wing and a prayer, nothing else. Your statement regarding 100tps using laptops is just a pretension, never tried, never tested. And that doesn't include security concerns. That's religion, not facts. That's pretension, not tested reality. AND, on top of that, such presumptions assume no other resources used. As you for sure have heard, the Ethereum network has been proven NOT ABLE to handle huge volume -I am going to assume it was nearly or even exceeded the 1-15 tps. It doesn't matter. What matters is that when put to the test in real life, it FAILED (that said, the upcoming implementation of PoS could change things dramatically, we'll soon see). Just like Ardor would fail if it was ever going to put to test because, quite simply, the tech is not yet right there. To pretend that Ardor will be even remotely close to beat Ethereum is just absurd wishful thinking, nothing else. Talk about religious fanaticism.

[martismartis]

Well, Barabbas, here is some info for you: https://www.jelurida.com/nxt-loadtest-results. And it's a fact.

[barabbas]

My understanding of "child chains", in this case, is that they are  private blockchains supported by the main. Except for IGNIS that will be public or semi-public, therefore yet another token.

A good source to read is the good ol' NXT 2.0 overview.

Child chains are, by default, public. They are not a real "blockchain" but simply a transaction type of the main chain that can be pruned after 1440 blocks and then can be archived separately. New child chains can be "backed" by a business in the form of an IOU, like NXT assets/"monetary system" currencies.

As far as I understand the roadmap, the creation of child chains is only restricted in the first period (up to early 2018) and then an automated process will be delivered where everyone could build private or public child-chains, in the same way today a "monetary system" currency is launched - only that probably the fee will be higher.

For me, however, the main feature of Ardor is the child chain pruning mechanism. It's not that it cannot be replicated by other platforms, but it's the first of its kind available now. For every full node operator I imagine it's a great relieve only having to process and store 1/35 of the data normally needed when syncing the first time.

My main point though remains that regardless how you want to call the traffic that the main blockchain will support, even at a minimal level of success, would be a quantum leap compared with current traffic and that since it cannot be stress tested we are left with just pretensions as to security, speed and capacity.

I don't see that much differences with respect to the NXT asset exchange that in 2014/15 had decent traffic. And every platform has a "first time". It's a chicken and egg problem, but the egg has been "created" successfully in other platforms like Ethereum - why should Ardor not be able to do that? The most obvious strategy would be to gradually increase the size/importance of the organizations that form part of the target public of the platform.

Why you ask? It is very very simple: The network of Ardor will be supported by a comparatively minimal amount of nodes. And let me emphasize MINIMAL. The PoW used by BTC has proven ridiculously low and absurdly expensy for practically any use case in the real world. The much improved PoW protocol of Ethereum has proven quite capable -but not capable enough- for high demand of transactions. But it isn't a stretch to figure out that as soon as the PoW/PoS hybrid is used, the capabilities of Ethereum will improve significantly. With the full implimentation of PoS, those capabilities will increase enormously given the amount of nodes -millions of them- that will be created. Now Ardor, why would anyone create a node (and by "anyone" I mean people outside of the "religious sect" of Ardor investors), you get my point?

As for your understanding regarding childchains, I see it differently --based on statements by the team. And logic, basic logic. Jelurida (the next team), is in it for the money. "It" being the busines of selling software and services. Software such as the child chains. I repeat: This is by their own statements. Ardor is just the all important backbone that will carry those childchains. Very important. But their money will be made in those child chains and associates services. PRIVATE ones. If someone creates a child chain just like you can create your own token in Ethereum, there's no benefit in it for Jelurida, right? You just pay the gas -the goes to the node holders and bundlers- and that's it. That doesn't jell even remotely with the business model that -I repeat- they admitted to when they created Jelurida. In specific: Jelurida ONLY makes money when they sell PRIVATE childchains (and associated services), not when someone creates their own child chain, EXACTLY the same way it works right now when you create any token in the Exchange or the "Monetary System", whatever you want to call it. That's precisely why the greedy bastards created Jelurida, ok? So please, lets stick to what we know -by their own admission- and stay away from assumptions that have nothing to do with reality, shall we?

[martismartis]

Ignis ICO details are just announced: https://www.jelurida.com/ico

[martismartis]

Barabbas, could you give some link about statements you talk? "As for your understanding regarding childchains, I see it differently --based on statements by the team. And logic, basic logic. Jelurida (the next team), is in it for the money. "It" being the busines of selling software and services. Software such as the child chains. I repeat: This is by their own statements."

Links or you are just fudder and troll. Period.

[barabbas]

Well, Barabbas, here is some info for you: https://www.jelurida.com/nxt-loadtest-results. And it's a fact.

Of the many things that can be extracted from that "test", I will just choose this one so we at least put to rest what the final goal here is:

Scaling the blockchain to 100 TPS required complex optimizations. These optimizations won’t be released under the GPLv2 license. They will be available only for commercial private blockchain projects or blockchains running under the JPL license.

Now that you and everyone should have it clear, beyond any doubt whatsoever, what the real targets are, we can go into more details of the test, if you like. How many nodes with 100 million NXT can be created? Just to start...

that speed is still ridiculously LOW for any financial transaction usage... but, most of all, refer to my point above. The answer is quite clear and simple for anyone. Like NONE, how about that -well, maybe one or two, since some of those wallets exceeding 100 million NXT are sure to be available, right Damelon?-.

This project is designed, ALL of it, for the SOLE PURPOSE of making money for Jelurida (the team). They need to keep ARDOR working the best they can and to get that they need to convince you that you should forge, otherways the netword disappears and so do the entire house of cards, but you are just a needed accessory for THEIR business to work. You stand to make NO MONEY (you making money through fees is directly AGAINST their interests -which is selling child chains that will operate cheaply-). Get the full picture now?

Anyway, this is just taking too much time. And, obviously it isn't directed to converts such as you or lurker, but to others that are capable of the most basic critical thinking and have no vested interest in gaining converts or become one.

[barabbas]

Barabbas, could you give some link about statements you talk? "As for your understanding regarding childchains, I see it differently --based on statements by the team. And logic, basic logic. Jelurida (the next team), is in it for the money. "It" being the busines of selling software and services. Software such as the child chains. I repeat: This is by their own statements."

Links or you are just fudder and troll. Period.

Read above post.

The statement in red has been made -different versions of it- in many, many occasions since the announcement of Jelurida.

[martismartis]

Link about statements about child chains? Give a link or fuddster and troll confirmed.

[barabbas]

Link about statements about child chains? Give a link or fuddster and troll confirmed.

Since you insist: https://www.nxter.org/jelurida-qa-nxt-core-devs-mean-business/


This is all straight from the horse's mouth. One thing you cannot blame these greedy guys is of not being upfront about their goals.

Now as far as the win-win, it's pathetically obvious they are bullshitting, but for the rest they have been as straightforward as you can be as to what the goals and targets are. And who the beneficiaries are.

[barabbas]

Ignis ICO details are just announced: https://www.jelurida.com/ico

I have run the numbers very quickly. This is just wild. I'm sure they thought this out a couple of weeks ago when the millions of dollars of "dumb money" were flowing into crypto and they actually believe this will work. Boy are they in for a surprise!  Well, the first part of the surprise is already here and it means that instead of the 50 million dollars valuation they gave to IGNIS it's basically, at current prices, half that. And that is still not just crazy but absurdly out-of-your-mind stuff. And they want for themselves (sorry, to "promote and develop") more than half of it and around $ 3 million straight to the bottom line of Jelurida. And I thought they were just greedy, this is batshit crazy greedy way before any description. And, simply put, total delusion, fortunately. Because it just isn't going to happen. Not in a 10% of it basis. All that money for what? Just another more-or-less-shitcoin with nothing to offer.

Hopefully this won't hit ARDR too hard, but I'll be positioning for a trade entry at significantly lower levels than current.

[VanBreuk]

Do not waste much time on this, martis.

Barabbas started with some points to bring up, and criticism and devil's advocates are always healthy and welcome, but considering the time he spends writing posts here, some of his recurring arguments, and his hellbent-on-a-personal-crusade attitude, sadly the best thing might be to just put him on Ignore list and do not feed his constant attempts of hijacking the discussion. If he cannot understand the multiple problems and dead ends the Nxt community found when trying to operate within a fully decentralized framework (based solely on donations) since the start, and if he cannot see why any attempt to find a niche in the current crypto ecosystem without securing funds for development, marketing et al is doomed and why, he is at best an idealist with lots of time to waste. But reading some of his claims, I doubt it. He crossed the line to fudster for me long ago. Motives? Who knows.

[martismartis]

Link about statements about child chains? Give a link or fuddster and troll confirmed.

Since you insist: https://www.nxter.org/jelurida-qa-nxt-core-devs-mean-business/


This is all straight from the horse's mouth. One thing you cannot blame these greedy guys is of not being upfront about their goals.

Now as far as the win-win, it's pathetically obvious they are bullshitting, but for the rest they have been as straightforward as you can be as to what the goals and targets are. And who the beneficiaries are.

How is this related to child chains on Ardor? Do you know what is the difference between private blockhain and child chains on Ardor? Want to FUD and troll more? Keep on

[barabbas]

Link about statements about child chains? Give a link or fuddster and troll confirmed.

Since you insist: https://www.nxter.org/jelurida-qa-nxt-core-devs-mean-business/


This is all straight from the horse's mouth. One thing you cannot blame these greedy guys is of not being upfront about their goals.

Now as far as the win-win, it's pathetically obvious they are bullshitting, but for the rest they have been as straightforward as you can be as to what the goals and targets are. And who the beneficiaries are.

How is this related to child chains on Ardor? Do you know what is the difference between private blockhain and child chains on Ardor? Want to FUD and troll more? Keep on

No, I don't know the difference. Do you?