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Author Topic: Bitcoin's killer app: Pooling your bitcoins, using the blockchain to vote  (Read 1439 times)
Elwar (OP)
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April 30, 2014, 11:14:36 AM
 #21

How would you restrict votes to one per person? Or is this supposed to work like kickstarter?

EDIT:nevermind, i watched the video and it does appear to work like kickstarter

It is sort of like kickstarter but in reverse.

On kickstarter someone with an idea posts the proposal and tries to get people to fund his project.

On BitPools people with a problem pledge their bitcoins toward that problem, then people with ideas and the ability to provide the solution posts the proposal.

Then people vote on whichever idea they like the most.

There is also the implementation of Dominant Assurance Contracts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assurance_contract) where an incentive is given to the voters, if the vote fails then those that voted for the proposal will split the incentive. This encourages people to vote if they support the proposal even if they believe the proposal might fail.

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Elwar (OP)
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April 30, 2014, 11:19:33 AM
 #22

Sidechains enable new features to be added to the bitcoin blockchain by interacting with Bitcoin.

I believe many things can be done using the bitcoin blockchain without the need for sidechains. There is a lot that to it that nobody has implemented.

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nuhash
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April 30, 2014, 12:05:03 PM
 #23

On kickstarter someone with an idea posts the proposal and tries to get people to fund his project.

On BitPools people with a problem pledge their bitcoins toward that problem, then people with ideas and the ability to provide the solution posts the proposal.

Then people vote on whichever idea they like the most.

Wouldn't an anonymous system be open to fraud? There is no barrier to anyone producing millions of bitcoin addresses and voting for their own idea and then running off with the coin.

This is a good idea but it doesn't seem to scale well.
Elwar (OP)
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April 30, 2014, 12:33:48 PM
 #24

On kickstarter someone with an idea posts the proposal and tries to get people to fund his project.

On BitPools people with a problem pledge their bitcoins toward that problem, then people with ideas and the ability to provide the solution posts the proposal.

Then people vote on whichever idea they like the most.

Wouldn't an anonymous system be open to fraud? There is no barrier to anyone producing millions of bitcoin addresses and voting for their own idea and then running off with the coin.

This is a good idea but it doesn't seem to scale well.

With BitPools you vote with your bitcoins. If someone creates a proposal and someone else creates millions of bitcoin addresses and fills each address with the minimum vote amount (ie. 10 mBTC) and sends their bitcoins...what would they gain?

It is built to scale quite a bit.

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nuhash
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April 30, 2014, 02:21:36 PM
 #25

With BitPools you vote with your bitcoins. If someone creates a proposal and someone else creates millions of bitcoin addresses and fills each address with the minimum vote amount (ie. 10 mBTC) and sends their bitcoins...what would they gain?

It is built to scale quite a bit.

These two people could be colluding like how politicians and companies collude to have certain contracts handed to a specific company...
Also someone who creates a proposal could then vote for themselves, surely that invalidates the integrity of the system?
Since the vote amounts are being refunded, it doesn't cost anything to rig a vote.

A fully fleshed out example:
Problem is proposed
People make pledges
Person A bribes Person B to propose a solution that will use Person A's business/company/services
Person B proposes solution
Person A wants Person B's solution to win so makes a lot of fake votes thus crushing the other solutions
Vote fees are returned and Person A witnesses improved business at little to no cost
Some people cry foul play but because the votes are anonymous you can't deny the results because there would be no explicit evidence.

If I have correctly understood the system you have produced then this method will work 100% of the time.

What you have made is something necessary in the world but I don't think its in the best form.
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April 30, 2014, 02:50:17 PM
 #26

It sounds like a great idea,

Elwar (OP)
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May 01, 2014, 12:43:58 AM
 #27

With BitPools you vote with your bitcoins. If someone creates a proposal and someone else creates millions of bitcoin addresses and fills each address with the minimum vote amount (ie. 10 mBTC) and sends their bitcoins...what would they gain?

It is built to scale quite a bit.

These two people could be colluding like how politicians and companies collude to have certain contracts handed to a specific company...
Also someone who creates a proposal could then vote for themselves, surely that invalidates the integrity of the system?
Since the vote amounts are being refunded, it doesn't cost anything to rig a vote.

A fully fleshed out example:
Problem is proposed
People make pledges
Person A bribes Person B to propose a solution that will use Person A's business/company/services
Person B proposes solution
Person A wants Person B's solution to win so makes a lot of fake votes thus crushing the other solutions
Vote fees are returned and Person A witnesses improved business at little to no cost
Some people cry foul play but because the votes are anonymous you can't deny the results because there would be no explicit evidence.

If I have correctly understood the system you have produced then this method will work 100% of the time.

What you have made is something necessary in the world but I don't think its in the best form.

That is where you are mistaken. If a vote passes, it is the votes themselves that fund the proposal. They are not returned unless the vote fails.

Imagine your scenario where the problem is that a bunch of people want a video game that uses bitcoins as the in-game currency.
Video game company (Blizzard) bribes user Joe to propose a solution using Blizzard software.
Joe proposes a solution, Blizzard software will create a video game with all pledgers getting free access to the video game and a share of the profits.
For the goal of the proposal they need $450,000 (1000 BTC) for the proposal to pass. They set a minimum vote to 1 bitcoin.
Joe creates 900 accounts and votes 900 times at 1 bitcoin each vote.
100 other people like the idea and vote with 1 bitcoin as well.
The proposal passes, Blizzard gets the contract and sets about creating the video game.
Joe just spent 900 bitcoins and will get 90% of all profits delegated to the voters. All other voters will get .1% plus free access to the game.

Or Joe could have just paid Blizzard 1000 bitcoins to create the software in the first place without the need to pool his funds with other Bitcoin users.


When we talk about vote fees returned, if Joe were to create 100 accounts voting 100 times with 100 bitcoins and there are only 100 other people voting 1 bitcoin each, then the vote total is 200 bitcoins with a needed 1000 bitcoins for the proposal to pass. All users would get their bitcoins returned.

And with BitPools, the vote amount is a "minimum amount", so Joe could just use a single account to send 100 bitcoins to have the same affect. It would just be on the proposer to properly deal with differing amounts per vote.

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nuhash
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May 01, 2014, 10:17:55 AM
 #28

When we talk about vote fees returned, if Joe were to create 100 accounts voting 100 times with 100 bitcoins and there are only 100 other people voting 1 bitcoin each, then the vote total is 200 bitcoins with a needed 1000 bitcoins for the proposal to pass. All users would get their bitcoins returned.
If the vote fees fund the proposal, what is stopping Blizzard making 900 accounts and voting with 1 bitcoin in each account and then they get the money back when they win.
Elwar (OP)
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May 01, 2014, 08:49:23 PM
 #29

When we talk about vote fees returned, if Joe were to create 100 accounts voting 100 times with 100 bitcoins and there are only 100 other people voting 1 bitcoin each, then the vote total is 200 bitcoins with a needed 1000 bitcoins for the proposal to pass. All users would get their bitcoins returned.
If the vote fees fund the proposal, what is stopping Blizzard making 900 accounts and voting with 1 bitcoin in each account and then they get the money back when they win.

They could do that...they still have to produce the 1000 bitcoin video game. (that would be like paying your boss $45,000 so that he hires you for a $50,000 job)

And if the proposal includes that they will use escrow, then they do not get that money until the work is complete (or at different stages of development).

First seastead company actually selling sea homes: Ocean Builders https://ocean.builders  Of course we accept bitcoin.
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