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Author Topic: Sia - Siafund Redemption Deadline: June 1st, 2015  (Read 68528 times)
Taek
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May 13, 2014, 06:00:48 PM
Last edit: May 13, 2014, 08:59:35 PM by Taek
 #81

Update!

There's been a surprising amount of interest, and a technical bump in the road.

In trying to convert nxt to btc, it seems that Bter has eaten my coins. I'm not sure what's going on there, but they only ate a small portion. Even if I end up losing those coins entirely, it's not a big deal. But it does mean that I'm going to stop accepting nxt until I can convert them to btc. I don't want to lose a ton of money because the price randomly plummets.

A few people have contacted me with requests to buy with btc. Because the time flood timer is 6 minutes, I'm now requesting that you email me. david.vorick@gmail.com
Additionally, there has been an explosion of interest, the price is going up. (apologies to everyone who didn't get in early, I had no idea there would be so much demand.) 1 BTC = 5 sianotes. 2850 Nxt = 1 sianote.

The process for buying with bitcoins:
1. Tell me which account is sending bitcoins, how many bitcoins it is sending, and how much stock you are getting in return. 1BTC = 5 sianotes.
2. AFTER you have told me this, send me the coins. I really don't want to get messages from 2 different people who claim they each sent the coins. Tell me first, then send the coins
3. If you are sending more than 5btc, confirm with me first. This is just because demand has been so high, and I'm worried that we might over-sell.
4. Send bitcoins to this account: 146dACCKyDsUre5DXQbKwrb6Xf3ycoAP3p
5. Sianotes are not divisible. If you send me an uneven number of bitcoins, I will round down. I cannot send you half of a sianote.
6. If you have an Nxt account, also tell me which account to send the sianotes to.

If you do not have an Nxt account, create a public key and sign that I am to hold onto your sianotes for you. When it is time for you to claim your sianotes, you'll need to sign a statement telling me where to send the sianotes. I don't want to get an email from a scammer who is claiming to be you, and then send your sianotes to the wrong place. (again, you only need a public key if I'm holding your sianotes until a later date)

I'll make another post once I have Nxt withdrawals working, and then I'll continue selling Sianotes on the exchange.

Thanks everybody for your interest and investments. It means a lot to us.
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May 13, 2014, 06:34:36 PM
Last edit: May 13, 2014, 06:56:17 PM by nemo1618
 #82

Wow, we've been really overwhelmed by the response so far! Thanks to everyone who has supported us.

To address some questions/concerns:

Just so everyones on the same page:
You are valuing your project at 1666 BTC or $733,333.00


Three quarters of a million dollars for something that is little more than an idea and a little bit of code at this point.
Please keep in mind people that if you are investing in this, you are agreeing to that valuation.

Also by asking for investors to cover your expenses while you develop you are shifting all the risk from yourself onto the investors. If it flops or if you can't make it work; at least you got paid a nice salary while you were doing it.

$750k is not an unreasonable valuation. As Y Combinator finalists, we already had an implicit valuation of $1.7M ($120k @ 7%). Sia is much more than just another cryptocurrency, and we believe that our current valuation is justified.

You are correct that we are shifting risk onto investors; that's what investors do, trade risk today for value tomorrow! Bear in mind that traditional seed funding, as well as Kickstarter campaigns, operate on this assumption. There is certainly some risk involved when you back a Kickstarter, but people do it anyway because they want to support cool projects and they trust the creator to deliver. That is why we've been very open about our identities and our code base; it makes us more accountable and increases the social pressure to succeed.

Im on for the giveaway.

I have read all the pages in this thread and cannot find any current offer of a giveaway. Could someone point out to me where it is? I would like to be one of the giveaway recipients, if possible.

There will likely be a giveaway after launch, but keep in mind that only Siacoin will be given away, not Siastock. The latter is a lot more valuable Wink
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May 13, 2014, 07:43:34 PM
 #83

If we contacted you about buying with btc before your announcement of the rate change, can you sell it to us at the old rate? Seems unfair that we have done that then you change the price?





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Taek
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May 13, 2014, 08:34:17 PM
 #84

I'm going to use this post to cover a bunch of things. I strongly dislike the 6 minute flood timer, it's causing a lot of grief. Nonetheless...

Just so everyones on the same page:
You are valuing your project at 1666 BTC or $733,333.00


Yes. As it stands, our project is a whitepaper and ~8,000 lines of code that sets up a single quorum and doesn't store files. This alone is not worth $700k. However, with this round of funding, you have our existing project and the idea, plus 2 developers who can afford to live for a full year working full time on Sia. Up until this point, we've had to balance Sia against our other responsibilities. This round of funding gives us a lot of time. The idea, whitepaper, plus 6-12 months of implementation is what is worth $700k. We're also lucky because the 2 developers are cofounders. If we were trying to raise what Google would pay us for 1 year, we'd need a lot more money. As it happens, we're content enough to just be able to afford California living expenses.

The other thing is that there is a clear demand for Siastock/Sianotes. One of my fears is that someone is willing to pay a lot more than the cost, but misses out on the opportunity because we have lowballed our offer and sold out before they realized we were doing the IPO. We've been at it for less than 1 day and still haven't contacted everyone who expressed interest.

Expecting others to foot 100% of the risk is a shady way of doing business I think.

There is a significant amount of opportunity cost associated with doing this. Our investors are not handling all of the risk. We are giving up very comfy salaries to do this. Our opportunity cost is actually more than the money we are raising.

If you really need the money for expenses you could have a seperated escrow system that pays you out a fraction per month for a certain amount of time.

For example you could receive 20% a month, every month, for 5 months.

Assuming you sell out of the IPO, this would equate to $22,000 a month. Don't try to tell us that your expenses would cost your more than 22K a month. You would have to rent quite a few Lamborghini's to make that happen. If you need more time you could split the escrow into 10 parts equaling $11,000 a month. Anyone and their entire family could live quite comfortable with that kind of cash so I can't think of a reason why this wouldn't work (2 team members? easy! $5,500 a month each! 3 team members? easy! $3,666 a month each!).

In this scenario, your expenses are covered, and if you don't produce anything after a month at least 80% of the funds are saved (or 60%, or 40%, etc etc, atleast you are protecting investors in some way).

Please provide a valid reason as to why this system would not work.


We're looking at raising the money to last a full year. Doing a staggered escrow would work just fine, if anybody wanted to arrange that. The problem is that we'd need strict rules for figuring out whether or not the money should be released an when. As we stand, we've got enough people who seem willing to fund us even without escrow. Ultimately, I'm expecting that Luke and I combined will be spending around $5k per month, especially early on. As Sia progresses, we'll start to have legitimate business expenses. The ~$100k that we are trying to raise gives us enough to live comfortably for a full year (including insurance), plus a comfortable amount of emergency money in case anything goes awry. (cars break down, people get sick, etc. Just need to be prepared). And even after that we'll have extra money for servers, initial hard drives, and be able to set up a reasonably reliable base network without any additional miners.

Just make sure to enter the correct Bter Deposit Address when sending NXT and you have nothing to worry about...  pending deposits disappear after they get the required confirmations but that is just because Bter transfers the NXT to another account before they credit your account.

Expanding on this a little bit more, I sent a test volume of 50 nxt to my bter deposit address. This was confirmed in about 30 minutes. Then I sent 25,000 nxt to the same address and bter never updated our balance. If you look at the blockchain though you see that the coins were forwarded to bter's primary account. I'm not sure if large transactions have a 1 day hold or something, but it's been 68 confirmations and I'd expect to see something. If someone can help us out, I'm trying to trade nxt to bitcoins for 0.00007 btc per nxt.

It's disconcerting but I'm not too worried because not a large percentage of the funds are at stake. I will of course honor all sianotes that have thus far been sold regardless of how things turn out with bter.


==============

If we contacted you about buying with btc before your announcement of the rate change, can you sell it to us at the old rate? Seems unfair that we have done that then you change the price?

Yes, I've been able to contact some people but haven't been able to get to everybody yet (that 6 minute flood timer...). Anyone who sent me a message requesting a sale before the price raise can buy up to 10BTC worth of sianotes at the old price. You should know who you are.

Other people have expressed concern with the price raise, saying it seems a bit dishonest. It was a tough decision to make, because I was afraid that this might seem the case. I don't want to follow MaidSAFE and sell out in 5 hours, where many interested parties end up missing out. The price raise is to slow down the offers a bit and give everyone who's contacted me or expressed interest over the past few weeks a chance to invest. I really have no idea the best or most honest way to do this, however I'm keeping a list of everyone who buys at the inflated price. If at a later point we decide the honest thing to do is have everyone pay the same price, all people who invested will be given more sianotes according to their investment.

At the low price, we are selling out very fast, and this concerns me. As far as I know, there's no smooth way to handle a pre-IPO with cryptocurrency. We're doing our best. Ultimately, we care about getting our 250 btc, and we care that everyone feels like they had a proper chance to get involved and invested. We don't need more than 250btc at this point, and we're happy giving up 15% siastock to get the money. Thanks for understanding, and I'm open to suggestions.
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May 13, 2014, 08:37:38 PM
 #85

It's interesting but can you offer escrow
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May 13, 2014, 09:10:50 PM
 #86

So when the IPO is supposed to kick off and will u use any escrow for the same ?

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May 13, 2014, 09:24:17 PM
 #87

Our transactions have come through on bter, there might just be a larger delay for larger transactions. Or maybe the need manual approval, as it seems like both large transactions got confirmed at the same time.

Whatever it is, bter is working for us now. This means that we can continue selling on the AE.
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May 13, 2014, 09:47:54 PM
 #88

Wow. That 100 went fast!
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May 13, 2014, 09:48:20 PM
 #89

Our transactions have come through on bter, there might just be a larger delay for larger transactions. Or maybe the need manual approval, as it seems like both large transactions got confirmed at the same time.

Whatever it is, bter is working for us now. This means that we can continue selling on the AE.

I bought some. It going really fast, this 200 should be sold within an hour.

You should at least try to find a private buyer for the nxt, this volume is too much to dump on bter.
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May 13, 2014, 10:09:40 PM
 #90

You should at least try to find a private buyer for the nxt, this volume is too much to dump on bter.

 Tongue

We're looking for a private buyer of Nxt. We'd be looking to sell somewhere between 500,000 and 2,500,000 for 0.00007 btc each.

It looks like we could sell these over the course of a week on bter, but ultimately I have no idea how long it'll take to sell so many. We can absolutely do escrow for the nxt to bitcoin trade, but I don't know which escrow's are trustworthy.
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May 13, 2014, 10:13:22 PM
 #91

You may want to ask Anon136 to provide escrow, he is here and on nxtforum

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041

BTC 1Mye3mqB9WQdCj3uFwx6zcRArnzbUiq6Ro  ★ [NXT] NXT-RA49-RXFR-V6WE-97HT9
★ [ORA] LOGO  ★ [NEM] LOGO  ★ [NXT] MONOLITH  ★ [EXO] LOGO  ★ [FIMK] LOGO  ★ [NODE] LOGO
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May 13, 2014, 10:25:42 PM
 #92

You should at least try to find a private buyer for the nxt, this volume is too much to dump on bter.

 Tongue

We're looking for a private buyer of Nxt. We'd be looking to sell somewhere between 500,000 and 2,500,000 for 0.00007 btc each.

It looks like we could sell these over the course of a week on bter, but ultimately I have no idea how long it'll take to sell so many. We can absolutely do escrow for the nxt to bitcoin trade, but I don't know which escrow's are trustworthy.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345336.0;topicseen

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May 14, 2014, 05:32:24 AM
 #93

Interesting Idea I don't know if it's been brought up but monetizing (small siacoin charge) downloads would seriously encourage uploads of quality content.
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May 14, 2014, 06:56:34 AM
 #94

Interesting Idea I don't know if it's been brought up but monetizing (small siacoin charge) downloads would seriously encourage uploads of quality content.

Yes actually we're going to build that into the scripting system. You can make a download free or you can charge a small amount for it (or even a large amount). It's not well defined yet, but ideally Sia could be used by Netflix, Hulu, or Pay-per-view and have the charges built in. Piracy might be an issue after the first download, but in most cases the legitimate service (especially if it's easy and comfortable to use) will get sufficient downloads.
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May 14, 2014, 07:37:40 AM
 #95

So, who is the owner of 9839339869956953060 nxt account?
This account have eat 325 sianotes.

QORA | 2ND GEN | NEW SOURCE CODE | QM8Q7itiFjs9b2QaXgDuedT8cfX5qaYeqC
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May 14, 2014, 03:33:57 PM
 #96

Are you filling any more orders on the NXT AE? I've requested orders both via AE for your asking price and requested a bitcoin order to your email but will not send if you are still placing orders via AE. Thanks  

NXT-XFAH-7N9C-6AS6-B3GLZ                BTC: 1MMzqYNNqQMMhY524Z9ThuQrRQW2whCmGk
NHZ: 8709719431783299770                 QORA | 2ND GEN | NEW SOURCE CODE | Qi24ssRqmEo3Wepv9pgdmqNuTDKQByiEfd
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May 14, 2014, 03:39:45 PM
 #97

Guys, if you think this will be used for anything other than child pron, start your brain up.
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May 14, 2014, 04:07:27 PM
 #98

Solve movies rental issue could be huge. It would be great to integrate it with subtitle support by community into opensource XBMC.
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May 14, 2014, 04:28:18 PM
 #99

I suggest that you encourage BTC investments and then issue SiaNotes to investors.  The Nxt AE is still young and you may have a hard time offloading several million Nxt at once.  Would be nice to see the OP updated with total amount invested, so others can see how much of the 15% IPO is available.  Excited to see the progress on development in the upcoming months. 
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May 14, 2014, 05:17:18 PM
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Are you filling any more orders on the NXT AE? I've requested orders both via AE for your asking price and requested a bitcoin order to your email but will not send if you are still placing orders via AE. Thanks  

We've been releasing about 100 at a time, but a few heavier investors seem to be snapping them up as fast as I release them. (IE the 325 account). I'm changing the prices again, but only on the AE. I'm also up to 1.7m nxt, which will probably take [too long] a few weeks to sell on bter.com. I have been contacted once by someone offering to do a bulk buy of nxt though, so that might solve the problem.

Spending Bitcoins, 1 BTC = 5 sianotes.
On the AE, 1 sianote = 3100 nxt.

Again, this is because I've pretty much got all the nxt that I'm comfortable with, and a few investors seem to be monopolizing the AE.

I suggest that you encourage BTC investments and then issue SiaNotes to investors.  The Nxt AE is still young and you may have a hard time offloading several million Nxt at once.  Would be nice to see the OP updated with total amount invested, so others can see how much of the 15% IPO is available.  Excited to see the progress on development in the upcoming months. 

So far, I have sold 1000 sianotes, which means 500 remain. I'll be updating the OP soon. The response has been significant and I'm very excited to have sold so many sianotes. At this point I have cashed out enough BTC for Luke and I to last the entire summer, and that doesn't even include the 1.7 million nxt. Assuming the nxt cashes out smoothly, we'll have enough to complete development!

You may want to ask Anon136 to provide escrow, he is here and on nxtforum

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041

This guy looks good for nxt=>btc escrow, but I'd feel more comfortable if other people in this thread can confirm that he's trustworthy.
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