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Author Topic: The size of the blockchain...  (Read 3800 times)
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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May 03, 2014, 09:30:42 PM
 #61

Almost nobody is running nodes just to relay tx.  If they are running a node it is to process transactions.  If you control the node you can subvert the information given to the transaction processor to steal money.

As for a VPS operator compromising a bitcoin node, this isn't academic.  It has happened in the linode hacks (and countless hacks since then).  They did it to STEAL MONEY!  That is a pretty good motivation.  It doesn't have to be the VPS owner, it can be a disgruntled employee, or someone who uses social engineering to gain super admin access to the VPS.
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May 03, 2014, 09:40:07 PM
 #62

Almost nobody is running nodes just to relay tx.  If they are running a node it is to process transactions.

As for a VPS operator compromising a bitcoin node, this isn't academic.  It has happened in the linode hacks (and countless hacks since then).  They did it to STEAL MONEY!  That is a pretty good motivation.

that wasn't an answer.  

there are lots of folks running vps full nodes simply to help the network.  go thru the threads linked below.  we're not stupid.  
none of us are holding btc or processing tx's on those vps providers b/c we know what happened with Linode.  i run 4 myself.  Morblias runs 17.  coalacanth just setup 2.  and on and on.  it's a cheap simple way to help.  and there is just no economic incentive for the vps provider to hack the node just to show us inaccurate data.  

there's nothing to steal.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582817.0

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/24645i/psa_the_amount_of_full_bitcoin_nodes_is_dropping/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1se3zd/how_to_create_a_full_bitcoin_node_in_a_5_ubuntu/
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May 04, 2014, 12:15:30 AM
 #63

You think that is the majority use case of full nodes?  I never said nobody on the planet is running non-transactional full nodes.  I said it isn't the most common use case.   Everything I said was about the risk to transactions.

So as this point you either lack basic reading comprehension or are just trolling for trolling sake.   Either way I am done. 
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May 04, 2014, 08:18:17 AM
 #64

stop being an asshole.

this whole discourse btwn us began with my comment here not even directed at you:

i'm not so sure size of a node is so important at this point.

at $19 per YEAR for a vps full node, it's cheap to run one right now.  that's where my Top image came from above:  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=582817.0

of course there's some centralization but i don't see that as a problem.  it's decentralized enough.

it's clear to everyone else here i am talking about a no tx processing , no btc full node.  these nodes are setup voluntarily by ppl like me solely to relay and verify tx's for the network.  and it's a well-known and accepted way to help the network by many, many ppl  as indicated in those 3 links i provided of how to set these nodes up.

then, you engage me by saying this:

It isn't the centralization it is the fact that someone else has control over it.  I would use a SPV client before I accepted data from a bitcoin node under someone elses control.

i don't see any distinction on your part whether we're talking about a no tx, no btc full node or one that does both those things.  all you talk about is that it's bad b/c you don't have control.  even Massimo80 has no idea what you're talking about:

It isn't the centralization it is the fact that someone else has control over it.  I would use a SPV client before I accepted data from a bitcoin node under someone elses control.

You are always accepting data from nodes under someone else's control. That's what "peer-to-peer network" means.
Where do you think your node will get its data from? Roll Eyes

i happen to agree with him.  and then you go off talking about the insecurity of full tx nodes holding btc when that type of full node wasn't even what i was talking about in the first place. Roll Eyes

then this comment made me speak up b/c you're just scaring ppl who want to help the network by setting up a vps no tx, no btc full node:

If you aren't going to run a full node under your direct control you are better off running a SPV wallet.  Running a full node on hardware you don't control if security theater.

again, where's your distinction btwn a no btc, no tx full node and one that does both those things.?  oh, there is none. Roll Eyes  all you're saying is that a full node out of your control is bad.  and that is just wrong.

it is well known the # full nodes is decreasing.  by setting up these vps controlled no tx, no btc full nodes, we are helping the network.   that's b/c the vps operator has no reason to hack that acct b/c there is nothing to steal.  And in that sense it is secure. your mind is stuck on the fact that a hack is technically possible. but like so many things in Bitcoin, it's not just the technical facts that matter in isolation.  it's the economic incentives combined with the technical facts that make it secure.

Even if the vps provider hacked the full node, the worst that can happen is that it will be ignored by the rest of the network. Eventually I would find out by cross checking reality with the network, close my account, stop paying fees, accuse them publicly of being scammers, and they'd lose business.

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