1,000,000 bits = 1 bitcoin. Future-proofing Bitcoin for common usage? VOTE

[teukon]

Ok, just making sure. I just wondered about it because this one poll received way more attention than other polls did.

It received more attention because it was linked to by a half-way popular r/Bitcoin Reddit thread.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/24ju3q/1000000_bits_1_bitcoin_futureproofing_bitcoin_for/

The extreme number of votes for "bit" here is most likely the consequence of the poll being exposed to a larger number of people than normal, people accustomed to upvoting.

[1714004093]

1714004093

[1714004093]

1714004093

[1714004093]

1714004093

[1714004093]

1714004093

[zimmah]

as well as a bitpay blog and many other things aimed to spread it to the whole bitcoin community.

The main campaign was to change the decimal point though so that only 2 decimals were left. The proposed name 'bit' was only a side-effect and not the main issue.

[Plankowner]

21 million bitcoins FOREVER!

Satoshi recognized that 21 million currency units are not enough for a global currency. His solution was to support eight decimal places on amounts, which also allows the reward halving process to continue for about 140 years. Internally the Bitcoin software recognizes 2,100 million million currency units (now known as satoshis) but they are divided by 100 million before presentation to users. So the block reward is currently 2,500 million satoshis or 25 bitcoins. Bitcoin units were fine for the first few years, but during the last 12 months the question keeps arising "Is another unit best for common usage?"

Inertia of existing systems

All modern fiat currencies have a major currency unit which has 100 minor units: e.g. $1 = 100 cents.
Everyone is used to this system from childhood. Many people are not comfortable with scientific notation or with small decimals such as 0.001234 which will be seen more and more often as the unit value of 1 bitcoin rises. Most people are happier dealing with 100,000 than 0.00001

Further, 99.99% of the world's financial and accounting systems do not support more than 2 decimal places on currencies, let alone as many as eight. It is arguable that Bitcoin has a very real handicap upon its growth by disregarding modern conventions in currencies.

Enter the "bit"

1 bitcoin = 1,000,000 bits
1 bit = 100 satoshis

User 101111 on reddit recommended this mock-up wallet. The current Bitcoin Core wallet does allow the selection of millibitcoins and microbitcoins but not with such a user friendly presentation, and not by default.

Is it time to consider using "bits" as standard? All balances become 1 million times larger, the block reward as 25 million bits, the exchange rate as 0.04 cents to a bit, a cup of coffee as 7000 bits instead of 0.007 BTC
Is this an improvement?  If the bitcoin value increases into the thousands of dollars which unit is easiest to use for pricing goods and services?

https://i.imgur.com/JrDIgmv.jpg

 

I will repeat what I said earlier on this post. Satoshi or BIT is the only microbit. The world financial accounting system is irrelevant!!!. Have we forgotten that bitcoin is INFINITELY DIVISIBLE??? Sad thing is unfortunately the Dev's took it upon themselves to implement this Idea into the Bitcoin core QT. The bit is a SATOSHI and a satoshi is the micro!! Not this completely irrational idea to cut out the last two decimal places...My bad, you look to capitalize on the ignorance of the user. The satoshi is the micro or bit. Warning anyone spending bitcoins under these conditions are shorting themselves 100 satoshis for every one bit spent. (Your coffee will cost you 238 satoshis or 2.38 bits) It's a rip-off and as far as I'm concerned, those who promote it are scoundrels. Also, anyone who likes making appearances in public about bitcoin are scoundrels!! HODL until the satoshi is the unit in which we transact with. Fuck the rest.  So says Satoshi!!!

P.S. Satoshi also created Litecoin and Namecoin. Anonymity is key

[boumalo]

21 million bitcoins FOREVER!

Satoshi recognized that 21 million currency units are not enough for a global currency. His solution was to support eight decimal places on amounts, which also allows the reward halving process to continue for about 140 years. Internally the Bitcoin software recognizes 2,100 million million currency units (now known as satoshis) but they are divided by 100 million before presentation to users. So the block reward is currently 2,500 million satoshis or 25 bitcoins. Bitcoin units were fine for the first few years, but during the last 12 months the question keeps arising "Is another unit best for common usage?"

Inertia of existing systems

All modern fiat currencies have a major currency unit which has 100 minor units: e.g. $1 = 100 cents.
Everyone is used to this system from childhood. Many people are not comfortable with scientific notation or with small decimals such as 0.001234 which will be seen more and more often as the unit value of 1 bitcoin rises. Most people are happier dealing with 100,000 than 0.00001

Further, 99.99% of the world's financial and accounting systems do not support more than 2 decimal places on currencies, let alone as many as eight. It is arguable that Bitcoin has a very real handicap upon its growth by disregarding modern conventions in currencies.

Enter the "bit"

1 bitcoin = 1,000,000 bits
1 bit = 100 satoshis

User 101111 on reddit recommended this mock-up wallet. The current Bitcoin Core wallet does allow the selection of millibitcoins and microbitcoins but not with such a user friendly presentation, and not by default.

Is it time to consider using "bits" as standard? All balances become 1 million times larger, the block reward as 25 million bits, the exchange rate as 0.04 cents to a bit, a cup of coffee as 7000 bits instead of 0.007 BTC
Is this an improvement?  If the bitcoin value increases into the thousands of dollars which unit is easiest to use for pricing goods and services?



 

I will repeat what I said earlier on this post. Satoshi or BIT is the only microbit. The world financial accounting system is irrelevant!!!. Have we forgotten that bitcoin is INFINITELY DIVISIBLE??? Sad thing is unfortunately the Dev's took it upon themselves to implement this Idea into the Bitcoin core QT. The bit is a SATOSHI and a satoshi is the micro!! Not this completely irrational idea to cut out the last two decimal places...My bad, you look to capitalize on the ignorance of the user. The satoshi is the micro or bit. Warning anyone spending bitcoins under these conditions are shorting themselves 100 satoshis for every one bit spent. (Your coffee will cost you 238 satoshis or 2.38 bits) It's a rip-off and as far as I'm concerned, those who promote it are scoundrels. Also, anyone who likes making appearances in public about bitcoin are scoundrels!! HODL until the satoshi is the unit in which we transact with. Fuck the rest.  So says Satoshi!!!

P.S. Satoshi also created Litecoin and Namecoin. Anonymity is key

Quite a statement you made there; it looks like you feel strongly about using bitcoins, bits, microbits, microbitcoins or satoshis!

I like the idea of talking in bits (=1BTC/1,000,000) or satoshis, I think it will come naturally though

[BurtW]

I will repeat what I said earlier on this post. Satoshi or BIT is the only microbit. The world financial accounting system is irrelevant!!!. Have we forgotten that bitcoin is INFINITELY DIVISIBLE??? Sad thing is unfortunately the Dev's took it upon themselves to implement this Idea into the Bitcoin core QT. The bit is a SATOSHI and a satoshi is the micro!! Not this completely irrational idea to cut out the last two decimal places...My bad, you look to capitalize on the ignorance of the user. The satoshi is the micro or bit. Warning anyone spending bitcoins under these conditions are shorting themselves 100 satoshis for every one bit spent. (Your coffee will cost you 238 satoshis or 2.38 bits) It's a rip-off and as far as I'm concerned, those who promote it are scoundrels. Also, anyone who likes making appearances in public about bitcoin are scoundrels!! HODL until the satoshi is the unit in which we transact with. Fuck the rest.  So says Satoshi!!!

P.S. Satoshi also created Litecoin and Namecoin. Anonymity is key

What are you screaming about?  You must misunderstand the proposal in this thread, which is as follows:

1 satoshi = smallest unit, pretty much in general use today
             = "bitcents" also makes some sense and may catch on and evolve back into cents (1/100th)
1 bit       = 100 satoshi, eventually every day use, coffee, sandwiches, etc.
1 XBT     = 1 bit, should be the official symbol on all exchanges, forex, etc.
1 BTC     = 1000000 bits = kept for dealing with larger amounts, may fade

1 Bitcoin/bitcoin as a currency unit fades away

Bitcoin = the Bitcoin protocol

Notice that 1 microBitcoin = 100 satoshi = 1 bit = 1 XBT

I guess I do not understand your post.

[Plankowner]

It's not a proposal, It's already in the Bitcoin Core client. No screaming necessary!! Honestly, BurtW I have Zero confidence in any member with a  Post count as high as yours. Not that all are deceitful, just that those quick to jump and defend a ludicrous and damaging proposal given by other members with high post counts tend to lose credibilty. If you are on this forum, I would assume you are knowledgeable of the bitcoin environment. Having said that, to hear an agreement on such an idea from you and other high post personalities leads me to feeling you are in on it. You know this idea is wrong for the user, yet you approve of it!! 

The name of the values are not as important as the usage for said values. That's to take 100 satoshi's for every so called "Bit".

Being in the bitcoin space for sometime has shown me that anyone looking to make a name for themselves are likely to be corrupted, but in the end bitcoin is for the people, Can't corrupt truth. Stand by for heavy losses!!



 

[BurtW]

It's not a proposal, It's already in the Bitcoin Core client. No screaming necessary!! Honestly, BurtW I have Zero confidence in any member with a  Post count as high as yours. Not that all are deceitful, just that those quick to jump and defend a ludicrous and damaging proposal given by other members with high post counts tend to lose credibilty. If you are on this forum, I would assume you are knowledgeable of the bitcoin environment. Having said that, to hear an agreement on such an idea from you and other high post personalities leads me to feeling you are in on it. You know this idea is wrong for the user, yet you approve of it!!  

The name of the values are not as important as the usage for said values. That's to take 100 satoshi's for every so called "Bit".

Being in the bitcoin space for sometime has shown me that anyone looking to make a name for themselves are likely to be corrupted, but in the end bitcoin is for the people, Can't corrupt truth. Stand by for heavy losses!!

I do not understand your concern.  I have been here for a very long time and for as long as I can remember there has always been 100,000,000 "satoshis" in one "bitcoin".  This is common knowledge and is used commonly within the Bitcoin community and has been for many years.  In other words 0.00000001 (one one hundred millionth of one) BTC is commonly know as and is called one satoshi.  Is this the definition that you are having a problem with?  

Also, by definition there are 1,000,000 microbitcoins in one bitcoin. This is how the SI units work worldwide. In other words 0.000001 BTC is, by the definition of SI units, 1 microbitcoin.

By basic math, since there are 1,000,000 microbitcoins in one bitcoin and there are 100,000,000 satoshis in one bitcoin there are 100,000,000 / 1,000,000 = 100 satoshis in one microbitcoin.  This is not really new or news.

The only thing new in this proposal is to call 1 microbitcoin "1 bit" as a shorthand.  

Why does this upset you so much?

[BurtW]

It's not a proposal, It's already in the Bitcoin Core client.

Just to make sure I fired up my Bitcoin QT client and, sure enough, it displays BTC to 8 decimal places.  So the Bitcoin QT client is displaying satoshis as described above (100,000,000 satoshis = 1 bitcoin).  I do not have the very latest version of the Bitcoin QT client.  Did they switch to displaying only six decimal places?  Can someone with the latest client look into this and let me know if they changed something (especially related to the definition of the "satoshi").

I also went ahead and changed my display option on my Bitcoin QT wallet from BTC to microBTC and it still displays all 8 decimal places (satoshis) of precision so a 5 BTC transfer looks like this "5000000.00" microBTC.  So you can see the satoshis in the "cents" - just as expected.

[nahtnam]

It's not a proposal, It's already in the Bitcoin Core client.

Just to make sure I fired up my Bitcoin QT client and, sure enough, it displays bitcoins to 8 decimal places.  So the Bitcoin QT client is displaying satoshis as described above (100,000,000 satoshis = 1 bitcoin).  I do not have the very latest version of the Bitcoin QT client.  Did they switch to displaying only six decimal places?  Can someone with the latest client look into this and let me know if they changed something (especially related to the definition of the "satoshi").

Why use "bits" when you can use "sats"?

[BurtW]

It's not a proposal, It's already in the Bitcoin Core client.

Just to make sure I fired up my Bitcoin QT client and, sure enough, it displays bitcoins to 8 decimal places.  So the Bitcoin QT client is displaying satoshis as described above (100,000,000 satoshis = 1 bitcoin).  I do not have the very latest version of the Bitcoin QT client.  Did they switch to displaying only six decimal places?  Can someone with the latest client look into this and let me know if they changed something (especially related to the definition of the "satoshi").

Why use "bits" when you can use "sats"?

You could use either. A bit is just a shorthand for 100 "sats" (assuming you are using "sats" as a shorthand for satoshis).  Use BTC, bits, sats, or satoshis - whatever your heart desires.

BTW I have never seen anyone anywhere seriously propose that we change the definition of a satoshi from 100,000,000 satoshis/BTC to 1,000,000 satoshis/BTC.  That would cause some real confusion!

If anyone sees a proposal to change the definition of the satoshi please let me know so I can give them a piece of my mind.  The satoshi, as 1/100,000,000 th of a BTC, is pretty much set in stone at this point as far as I and everyone I know is concerned.  Please, let's not mess with that.

[nahtnam]

It's not a proposal, It's already in the Bitcoin Core client.

Just to make sure I fired up my Bitcoin QT client and, sure enough, it displays bitcoins to 8 decimal places.  So the Bitcoin QT client is displaying satoshis as described above (100,000,000 satoshis = 1 bitcoin).  I do not have the very latest version of the Bitcoin QT client.  Did they switch to displaying only six decimal places?  Can someone with the latest client look into this and let me know if they changed something (especially related to the definition of the "satoshi").

Why use "bits" when you can use "sats"?

You could use either. A bit is just a shorthand for 100 "sats" (assuming you are using "sats" as a shorthand for satoshis).  Use BTC, bits, sats, or satoshis - whatever your heart desires.

BTW I have never seen anyone anywhere seriously propose that we change the definition of a satoshi from 100,000,000 satoshis/BTC to 1,000,000 satoshis/BTC.  That would cause some real confusion!

If anyone sees a proposal to change the definition of the satoshi please let me know so I can give them a piece of my mind.  The satoshi, as 1/100,000,000 th of a BTC, is pretty much set in stone at this point as far as I and everyone I know is concerned.  Please, let's not mess with that.

But I dont understand why your fighting sooo much to add bits? Most people are comfortable using sats.

[silversurfer1958]

for me, any option is fine, but the thing that decides it is... what would be easiest for Grandma to understand.

[ThomasCrowne]

jeesh.  just got used to the old paradigm and now this.  honestly though i think it's needed in the long-term.

[BurtW]

But I dont understand why your fighting sooo much to add bits? Most people are comfortable using sats.

I would not say I am "fighting" for it.  The main reason that people do not like to switch to satoshi directly is that it is not an "even" number of BTC in the SI unit prefixes (giga, mega, kilo, milli, micro, nano):

100 satoshis = 1 microBTC
100 megasatoshis = 1 BTC
0.1  gigasatoshis = 1 BTC

10 nanoBTC = 1 satoshi
0.01 microBTC = 1 satoshi

See?  It is kind of "messy".

Bottom line is that we have concensus on the meaning of BTC, bitcoin and satoshi (and all the SI prefixed units derived from these) all the other ideas and proposals are just ideas, proposals and conjecture at this point.

[BurtW]

for me, any option is fine, but the thing that decides it is... what would be easiest for Grandma to understand.

I think this is one of the strongest points for the proposal.  Grandma is used to dollars and cents and prices in this format XXXX.XX

The proposal would give Grandma "bits" for dollars, "satoshis" for cents, and prices would be displayed in the same familiar XXXX.XX format.

Again, the only thing new here is the proposal to call 1/1,000,000 th of a bitcoin (1 microBTC) a "bit" for short.  Other names ("zib", "mike", "mic", etc.) have been proposed.  I happen to like "bit".  Others like other names.  What they eventually get called will really be up to the everyday people, including Grandma, who use them.

[BurtW]

Here is, by far, the best point in favor of calling one microbitcoin "one bit".

If we all agree to call 1 microBTC "one bit" then we can all really look forward to that glorious day when a shave and a haircut will once again cost two bits!

Even grandma will appreciate that.

[nahtnam]

Here is, by far, the best point in favor of calling one microbitcoin "one bit".

If we all agree to call 1 microBTC "one bit" then we can all really look forward to that glorious day when a shave and a haircut will once again cost two bits!

Even grandma will appreciate that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_(money)

[Plankowner]

Here is, by far, the best point in favor of calling one microbitcoin "one bit".

If we all agree to call 1 microBTC "one bit" then we can all really look forward to that glorious day when a shave and a haircut will once again cost two bits!

Even grandma will appreciate that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_(money)

There has been an unraveling on this subject, the plot is thicker than I anticipated. There are a lot more involved than expected. Big names
We already have 1 microBTC and 1bit (both are the same), It's called the "Satoshi".

[Plankowner]

It's not a proposal, It's already in the Bitcoin Core client.

Just to make sure I fired up my Bitcoin QT client and, sure enough, it displays BTC to 8 decimal places.  So the Bitcoin QT client is displaying satoshis as described above (100,000,000 satoshis = 1 bitcoin).  I do not have the very latest version of the Bitcoin QT client.  Did they switch to displaying only six decimal places?  Can someone with the latest client look into this and let me know if they changed something (especially related to the definition of the "satoshi").

I also went ahead and changed my display option on my Bitcoin QT wallet from BTC to microBTC and it still displays all 8 decimal places (satoshis) of precision so a 5 BTC transfer looks like this "5000000.00" microBTC.  So you can see the satoshis in the "cents" - just as expected.

It's perplexing, mind boggling and concerning to hear the idea of "CENTS" in bitcoin, It makes No "SENSE",  If you feel that it is OK to lose 10,000,000 Million Satoshi's or .1btc per 1 bitcoin with this idea. Only a con of the highest corruption would do such. This was a deliberate act!!!

[knightcoin]

User 101111 on reddit recommended this mock-up wallet.

user 101111 lol ...  I just checked what 101111 is in machine intruction