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Author Topic: Hypothetically, if a large enough gold deposit was found, could it cause economi  (Read 2559 times)
STT
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June 02, 2014, 02:12:34 AM
 #21

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It costs money to mine gold from the gold mines

The difficulty varies though.   This is a history question to some extent, someone who knows their stuff could quote some facts on this.    But even present tense various companies around the world will quote you different costs to their mining

There is hard rock mining, the proper underground stuff.  Expensive but can bring entire seams of gold or the much cheaper alluvial mining which is surface mining for fragments of gold distibuted usually by water, rivers and glaciers over many years.    That can be cheap, depends if the gold has collected together or not.
   Mining grades for open pit vary from 1 gram of gold per ton to maybe over 10 grams or more per ton which would be great (much riches Smiley ).

This hypothetical gold mine I presume would be high grade and concentrated, if it really was a large amount of gold; then yes it is probably going to alter the gold price.    In turn this might cause economic change but modern day we dont really trade off gold, we base it off dollars which are incredibly more plentiful then any mine has ever been.

One of the largest gold mines in the world is on the 7 peaks route.  Its on the way to one of the highest mountain peaks in the world and on top of the world is this great big gold mine.   They have taken off the entire top to one of these peaks (not the summit), they liquate it and built a great big water slide to send it down to port for proper refining.    Plus on top of that they had terrorists attack them for a ransom I think it was.
Anyhow my point is costs can be massive or it could be very simple to get the gold like the original California gold rush - they just picked lumps of gold off the ground   (a bit like btc except without the price rise perhaps)


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June 02, 2014, 03:11:48 PM
 #22

I have recently read, astronomers found meteorites filled with gold deposits, bigger than the world supply x10.

Unfortunately, the cost to mine this, and to transport it back to earth, would negate the profit, from doing that. {With current technology}

If hypothetically this meteorite should enter earths atmosphere, and break or melt into smaller pieces, it would flood the market, and gold will be less valuable.

Gold is valuable because :

1. It's moderately scarce.
2. Expensive to mine.
3. Shiny and cool.  Grin {I will not wear a stone ring}
4. Last for centuries {Do not rust or decay}
5. Very good conductor for electricity.

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June 02, 2014, 03:36:00 PM
 #23

For some reason , everyone has been ignoring the point of the question.

I think he is trying to ask something like this :-

Quote
Let's say a huge meteor of gold fell from the sky. It was pure refined gold already and it was enough to make all other gold valueless.
First, what effect would this have on the economy? I heard somewhere that the wealth of nations is based on how much gold each country has.
Second, what if I could mine and sell it, like, really super fast without anyone knowing? Could I hypothetically become rich before anyone realized what was happening?

Everyone seems to be answering why Bitcoin is better and why there would be problems mining.

Even if the question as reframed by me is not what he intended to ask , can anyone here answer it ?
The concept sounds interesting.

Other than making gold more used than aluminimum , for a huge amount of things (I guess we would use gold foil instead of aluminimum foil) , what effect would it have on the economy , of places like fort knox ?

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June 02, 2014, 06:52:24 PM
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It depend on how much cost mine it and how much gold there is.
Without these numbers it is impossible to give a sensible answer.

Supposing the price to mine it would be in the 100$/once and there is enough gold to increase the amount globally mined 10x per one year, it would crash the price (if all would be released in a continuous stream).
But, if it is finite (as it should be) miners would keep the gold and sell enough on the market to finance their operation.
Then, they would slowly sell it for years buying undervalued assets.

There is, also, the problem with refineries: there are not enough refineries to smelt the ore and refine it at an industrial financial level if you have too much ore production.

The lower value of gold would increase the uses as an industrial good.
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June 09, 2014, 03:51:53 AM
 #25

Alright, let's say that I find a gold mine large enough that if mined and refined, all the gold in it were enough to make gold about as rare as dirt.
First, what effect would this have on the economy? I heard somewhere that the wealth of nations is based on how much gold each country has.
Second, what if I could mine and sell it, like, really super fast without anyone knowing? Could I hypothetically become rich before anyone realized what was happening?


No.

Gold miners would still need to invest in equipment, manpower and other capital in order to extract the gold from the mine. This is similar to how BTC miners still need to invest in electricity when they receive a high powered (when compared to other mining machines) miners. 

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June 09, 2014, 08:02:52 PM
 #26

Gold is inflationary. Technology will always find new ways to extract more and more gold from the earth. Eventually they will figure out how to mass produce it through industrial processes. In the short term it can be a hedge of sorts but eventually the price will keep falling.

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June 09, 2014, 08:05:20 PM
 #27

Well perhaps maybe the person that found this would be the richest man alive. Finding this I don't think would decrease the price of everything more so just have him money.
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June 09, 2014, 08:06:30 PM
 #28

Well perhaps maybe the person that found this would be the richest man alive. Finding this I don't think would decrease the price of everything more so just have him money.

If you find it just keep it a secret. You can tell me of course.  Grin

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June 10, 2014, 12:17:50 AM
 #29

Gold is inflationary. Technology will always find new ways to extract more and more gold from the earth. Eventually they will figure out how to mass produce it through industrial processes. In the short term it can be a hedge of sorts but eventually the price will keep falling.

The price is also related to quantity of fiat.

Quantity of fiat vs quantity of gold.

Given that the global debt situation requires a lot of new fiat to be issued to cover old debts => it's unlikely gold production will hit the percentage increases of new fiat production.
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June 10, 2014, 01:41:19 AM
 #30

Gold is inflationary. Technology will always find new ways to extract more and more gold from the earth. Eventually they will figure out how to mass produce it through industrial processes. In the short term it can be a hedge of sorts but eventually the price will keep falling.

The price is also related to quantity of fiat.

Quantity of fiat vs quantity of gold.

Given that the global debt situation requires a lot of new fiat to be issued to cover old debts => it's unlikely gold production will hit the percentage increases of new fiat production.

Gold is generally considered to be a hedge against inflation.

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June 10, 2014, 10:44:36 AM
 #31

Gold is inflationary. Technology will always find new ways to extract more and more gold from the earth. Eventually they will figure out how to mass produce it through industrial processes. In the short term it can be a hedge of sorts but eventually the price will keep falling.

The price is also related to quantity of fiat.

Quantity of fiat vs quantity of gold.

Given that the global debt situation requires a lot of new fiat to be issued to cover old debts => it's unlikely gold production will hit the percentage increases of new fiat production.

Gold is generally considered to be a hedge against inflation.

It is... it inflates at a rate of ~1-1.5% in itself (2.500 tons added annually to 180.000 tons above ground quantity). The global monetary supply is inflating faster, so the ratio between fiat money and quantities of gold is going in favor of gold.
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June 10, 2014, 04:36:39 PM
 #32

Gold is inflationary. Technology will always find new ways to extract more and more gold from the earth. Eventually they will figure out how to mass produce it through industrial processes. In the short term it can be a hedge of sorts but eventually the price will keep falling.

The price is also related to quantity of fiat.

Quantity of fiat vs quantity of gold.

Given that the global debt situation requires a lot of new fiat to be issued to cover old debts => it's unlikely gold production will hit the percentage increases of new fiat production.

Gold is generally considered to be a hedge against inflation.

It is... it inflates at a rate of ~1-1.5% in itself (2.500 tons added annually to 180.000 tons above ground quantity). The global monetary supply is inflating faster, so the ratio between fiat money and quantities of gold is going in favor of gold.

There are also other uses of gold other then as a hedge against inflation. Gold is often used in semiconductors among other thins. This will put somewhat of a floor on the price of gold in terms of CPI as companies can produce things with gold more cheaply if the price of gold falls, creating demand for gold.

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June 10, 2014, 11:06:34 PM
 #33

Gold is inflationary. Technology will always find new ways to extract more and more gold from the earth. Eventually they will figure out how to mass produce it through industrial processes. In the short term it can be a hedge of sorts but eventually the price will keep falling.

The price is also related to quantity of fiat.

Quantity of fiat vs quantity of gold.

Given that the global debt situation requires a lot of new fiat to be issued to cover old debts => it's unlikely gold production will hit the percentage increases of new fiat production.

Gold is generally considered to be a hedge against inflation.

It is... it inflates at a rate of ~1-1.5% in itself (2.500 tons added annually to 180.000 tons above ground quantity). The global monetary supply is inflating faster, so the ratio between fiat money and quantities of gold is going in favor of gold.

There are also other uses of gold other then as a hedge against inflation. Gold is often used in semiconductors among other thins. This will put somewhat of a floor on the price of gold in terms of CPI as companies can produce things with gold more cheaply if the price of gold falls, creating demand for gold.

If we had ample quantities, there would be no reason having copper-nickel coins. It'd all be gold and silver. So even more demand.

For silver in particular, it would also mean wires are made out of silver, instead of copper. Silver is a better conductor. Especially in electric motors, silver wire coils produce more power than copper coils for the same electricity produced.
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June 10, 2014, 11:26:41 PM
 #34

...

My first guess is that there are NO big and easy-to-mine gold mines to be found.

Second, most gold miners are losing money right now...

Third, there is HUGE RESISTANCE among locals re new & big Au mines (ref: Conga in Peru and Pebble in Alaska).

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June 10, 2014, 11:54:14 PM
 #35

instead gold, what about petrol ... what do you thing OPEC would do ?

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June 11, 2014, 01:10:39 AM
 #36

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Gold is inflationary. Technology will always find new ways to extract more and more gold from the earth. Eventually they will figure out how to mass produce it through industrial processes


Technology finds ways to do alot of things faster which is a good thing.    I think the thing you are forgetting there is the gigantic population increase, so there is tons more gold but even more then that is the larger amount of people

So per capita over the world, gold is not inflationary.    It doesnt make much sense to say that, in ancient Egypt the price of a field of wheat was roughly the same as now; if you measure it as exchanged for gold.
That should be impossible it seems, the world is so different and there was certainly far less people plus they made the wheat by seeding with hand tools?  



The answer to the OP is simple, no its not having that radical an effect.    How many people here spend gold coins.      We have already debased any link to gold, right now its meaningless.  The centre of the world economy right now is Washington politics, its not some metal dynamic.
   Technology here is trying to take some power back via innovation and cryptography, convenience but look at bitcoin market cap and its nothing.  BTC is barely even a small NYSE stock size, its a fly on the windscreen of a juggernaut.   Gold is not massive either afaik, oil is big yes and the biggest market is government debt



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Harley997
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June 11, 2014, 01:50:01 AM
 #37

Gold is inflationary. Technology will always find new ways to extract more and more gold from the earth. Eventually they will figure out how to mass produce it through industrial processes. In the short term it can be a hedge of sorts but eventually the price will keep falling.

The price is also related to quantity of fiat.

Quantity of fiat vs quantity of gold.

Given that the global debt situation requires a lot of new fiat to be issued to cover old debts => it's unlikely gold production will hit the percentage increases of new fiat production.

Gold is generally considered to be a hedge against inflation.

It is... it inflates at a rate of ~1-1.5% in itself (2.500 tons added annually to 180.000 tons above ground quantity). The global monetary supply is inflating faster, so the ratio between fiat money and quantities of gold is going in favor of gold.

There are also other uses of gold other then as a hedge against inflation. Gold is often used in semiconductors among other thins. This will put somewhat of a floor on the price of gold in terms of CPI as companies can produce things with gold more cheaply if the price of gold falls, creating demand for gold.

If we had ample quantities, there would be no reason having copper-nickel coins. It'd all be gold and silver. So even more demand.

For silver in particular, it would also mean wires are made out of silver, instead of copper. Silver is a better conductor. Especially in electric motors, silver wire coils produce more power than copper coils for the same electricity produced.

Different metals have different kinds of uses and properties. Silver has a lower value (by measure of weight) and is generally is used for things that cost less. If the price of gold were to decrease sufficiently (because of either lower demand or higher supply) then things that are normally use silver could instead use gold.

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Unluckyduck
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June 11, 2014, 10:02:53 AM
 #38

If such a deposit was found, companies with vested interests in the price of gold remaining high would keep the news hush hush and hoard what was found, much like what is happening with diamonds today.
GigaBit
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June 12, 2014, 12:36:37 PM
 #39

Yes and No

Depends how big the deposit, you do notice fluctuations in Gold prices (if you day trade) when SIGNIFICANT deposits are found because new ones of rather small size are found daily.

Currently, the amount of Gold mined in the history of mankind could fill 1/3 of the Washington Monument.  If a deposit that could fill the rest was found then DEFINITELY there would be a significant price drop.  If the price at the time of the find is $1,250 USD per ounce, 2/3 of that is $425 per ounce because the world supply tripled overnight.

However, the chances of such a deposit found on earth now are slim to none.  In the past decade there has been about 3 significant deposits found.

Price of Gold = 1 Ounce = 1 Paycheck

The faster you extract it, the more paychecks you get; just like Bitcoin mining.  Bitcoin Mining, very much like Gold mining is a number's game; but remains a game none the less Wink

-I'd rather be mining
ljudotina
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June 12, 2014, 12:45:22 PM
 #40

Alright, let's say that I find a gold mine large enough that if mined and refined, all the gold in it were enough to make gold about as rare as dirt.
First, what effect would this have on the economy? I heard somewhere that the wealth of nations is based on how much gold each country has.
Second, what if I could mine and sell it, like, really super fast without anyone knowing? Could I hypothetically become rich before anyone realized what was happening?


No world economy is not tied to gold. As far as second part of your question goes, it's not question of "speed", it's question of "spread". If you could spread sales far enough from each other so you do not oversaturate markets too fast, than yes, you would walk away with thitload of fiat. But as you say, "as common as dirt", i'd say that saturation would happen really quickly. But still, you would get shitload of money.
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