Are the console wars killing AAA gaming?

[thok422]

So let me give a little background:

I picked up Titanfall the other day, and it's a fun little shootey game. Before everyone goes nuts, I'm not a bro-gamer who obsesses over COD and such, I just wanted a change of pace.

I'm a PC gamer by heart, but I picked this up for my Xbox 360. I keep feeling like it wasn't worth $60.

And this seems to be the case recently: Titanfall, Ground Zeroes, etc. There seems to be a plethora of AAA games that are focused on graphical capabilities, and thus are lacking more substantive gameplay. So I submit this:

The next-generation consoles, which are now driving game companies to inefficiently and expensively produce games with higher graphical qualities (just look at how much Destiny is rumored to cost), are both causing games to be made with less content due to budget and hurting AAA game designers.


PS. I admit this has been a trend even before next-gen. RIP Irrational.

[1714021909]

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[GreekBitcoin]

This is the so called glorious market economy that most people here love working great. It doesnt matter if a game is shit if it can make you money.

Another example Diablo 3 . In order to sell to masses and children they destroyed it.

[TaunSew]

Watching a movie at a theatre can cost between $10 to $25 per ticket for a hour-ish movie.  A video game, even if it provides six hours of entertainment, is technically good value for your money.

By the way nostalgia can be misleading. 

[thok422]

This is the so called glorious market economy that most people here love working great. It doesnt matter if a game is shit if it can make you money.

Another example Diablo 3 . In order to sell to masses and children they destroyed it.

But at the same time, this system rewards games that can spend money and cash in big (COD, Battlefield, Gears, etc.) and really hurts teams that make great games that are really expensive to make, but don't end up making their money back (Bioshock Infinite, Max Payne 3, etc.).

We get more ham-fisted multiplayer cash-grabs, and developers get screwed.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Wait Bioshock Infinite lost money?

To the OP it is a problem and PC games are not immune either.  I remember reading an article which talked about how the cost of developing the "art" for games has increased exponentially with the pixel count.  Now with consoles all being able to push 1080p (due to TV standard) the pixel count isn't going higher but the graphical capabilities are still expanding so that "art" development cost is still exploding.

To be honest, for games early in a console life cycle, the big developers are more interested in the graphics engine for the licensing revenue it can generate.  The best ones will end up being adopted by smaller studios and will end up in dozens if not hundreds of games.  That can mean revenue on a scale that makes the direct sales of the game look like chump change.  Is it any wonder the graphics element is pushed so hard.  You didn't buy a game, you bought a demo for their graphics engine.

[thok422]

Wait Bioshock Infinite lost money?

While topping plenty of charts at release, and being a wildly fun game, it's assumed by many (you may not agree, that's fine) that it's budget was 150mil+ and couldn't make that back.

Most people link this to the closing of Irrational.

[Lethn]

This is the so called glorious market economy that most people here love working great. It doesnt matter if a game is shit if it can make you money.

Another example Diablo 3 . In order to sell to masses and children they destroyed it.

As a child/teenager, I played games like Star Wars Galaxies ( which was ruined to compete with World of Warcraft ) and games like Counter Strike and Rome Total War, if games like Star Citizen have proven anything, it's that the marketers and publishers behind these 'AAA' games are full of shit, it's not a case of the masses only wanting these games it's that they get force fed this crap time and time again rather than anything original. I even played Starcraft and Command and Conquer when I was really young.

When you look at Minecraft, Star Citizen or DayZ which are the total opposite of the games you talk about you see that actually people do want this kind of thing, the big companies as usual are just completely detached from reality, the problem is that they've been at it for so long I think even the jaded gamers out there are starting to think like them. Console wars aren't necessarily killing gaming, but I think they're actually moving a lot of crap out the market, because a lot of developers are acting like spoilt children over the whole filesharing thing this is going to leave major gaps in the market for indie developers to move in with their own games and bring PC gaming back.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Wait Bioshock Infinite lost money?

While topping plenty of charts at release, and being a wildly fun game, it's assumed by many (you may not agree, that's fine) that it's budget was 150mil+ and couldn't make that back.

Most people link this to the closing of Irrational.

Ouch that makes me feel a little sadder.  I hate to see such talent not compensated.

[Snorek]

Today there is many gamers that will buy games based on graphics and advertisements. Its easier to sell a game with good graphics then without them, so companies spend moneys on looks more then on gameplay. Thats why many games are unfinished when they hit the market.
But the only whey to change that is to buy games after someone reviews them.

[TaunSew]

SWG went downhill as soon you could unlock Jedi from botting xp to complete your required professions.   Then it was further ruined when the NGE made jedi accessible at the start screen for everyone.

A pure lottery system and death system for your main character gone jedi would had worked better, imho.

SWG in the end was shut down by Lucas Arts, not SoE, as it was seen as competitor to SWTOR.

SWG was pretty playable before it shutdown.  It was also the best mmo for roleplaying due to appearance / clothing cuatomization, chat bubbles which appeared above your character and housing options.  

People even put up walls in their homes and built very immersive buildings.

Until SWG is rebooted, the only contending game is maybe the repopulation mmo but my days of gaming are over

[Lethn]

You might like this TaunSew

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/content.php?r=179-Install-SWGEmu

Yes, it's real.

[pekv2]

Ionno, but I went into gamestop around 2007-08 in newfoudnland,canada, the store had ton of WINDOWS PC GAMES in caps. I hit up another game stop back in 2006 to trade in my ps2 for a xbox to mod the xbox, same thing ton of windows pc games. I just went into a game stop here in the usa recently, that had nothing for pc games except games like that facebook farm game. I asked dood where are all the windows PC games at, he said its basically consoles now. I guess you need to go newegg ect for windows pc games now, steam, ea for the digital crap, no hard copies like back in the day. <rots me.

[Chrithu]

Like the OP I am a PC Gamer as well. And I do not own any of the consoles, because the console exclusive games are too little to justify having a PC and a console.

My view on things is that the main reason for the focus on graphics is the fact that big publishers still target at the 14 to 21 year old demography mainly. Hence the often shallow gameplay but stunning graphics. In addition to that if a game is stated to have cost 50 million dollar you can bet your ass that 25 million (and that most likely is a HUGE understatement) were burned in marketing and middle management personel cost. This all is true to console and PC Games alike.

I think it has nothing to do with consoles. It has to do with the (economically clever) wish of publishers to develop games by formula. By "by formula" I mean it is every publishers goal to target the biggest possible customer base with the least possible effort. Young people are best caught with stunning graphics. Just remember back when you were that young or listen to teenagers talking about games. Hottest topic: which game looks best. And producing stunning graphics is a thing that is quite easy: You throw some money at the problem and handy artists push out the visuals by well tested and standardized means.

Creating innovative gameplay on the other side costs a lot of time and hence money, because it needs R&D, often dramatic changes to present game engines or the development of a specialized new engine.

This is the reason why most of the innovative and new ideas in the last 5 maybe even 10 years come almost exclusively out of the indie and modder scene. And that in turn is why the indie scene starts to get a bigger and bigger share of the market.

[Snorek]

Like the OP I am a PC Gamer as well. And I do not own any of the consoles, because the console exclusive games are too little to justify having a PC and a console.

My view on things is that the main reason for the focus on graphics is the fact that big publishers still target at the 14 to 21 year old demography mainly. Hence the often shallow gameplay but stunning graphics. In addition to that if a game is stated to have cost 50 million dollar you can bet your ass that 25 million (and that most likely is a HUGE understatement) were burned in marketing and middle management personel cost. This all is true to console and PC Games alike.

I think it has nothing to do with consoles. It has to do with the (economically clever) wish of publishers to develop games by formula. By "by formula" I mean it is every publishers goal to target the biggest possible customer base with the least possible effort. Young people are best caught with stunning graphics. Just remember back when you were that young or listen to teenagers talking about games. Hottest topic: which game looks best. And producing stunning graphics is a thing that is quite easy: You throw some money at the problem and handy artists push out the visuals by well tested and standardized means.

Creating innovative gameplay on the other side costs a lot of time and hence money, because it needs R&D, often dramatic changes to present game engines or the development of a specialized new engine.

This is the reason why most of the innovative and new ideas in the last 5 maybe even 10 years come almost exclusively out of the indie and modder scene. And that in turn is why the indie scene starts to get a bigger and bigger share of the market.

You said/wrote that right. I'm gonna just add that the same thing is with the movies these days. Zero innovations, lots of remakes, stupid and illogical scenarios, great visuals and of course PEGI 13

[DeathAndTaxes]

I guess you need to go newegg ect for windows pc games now, steam, ea for the digital crap, no hard copies like back in the day.

I haven't bought physical media for software in years, so people like me are probably what accelerated that trend.  Then again I don't really see the appeal.  My computer is online, the software is online, often online is a large component of the software, updates are online.  So why do I need a box & DVD to lose or take up space again?

[Joshuar]

So let me give a little background:

I picked up Titanfall the other day, and it's a fun little shootey game. Before everyone goes nuts, I'm not a bro-gamer who obsesses over COD and such, I just wanted a change of pace.

I'm a PC gamer by heart, but I picked this up for my Xbox 360. I keep feeling like it wasn't worth $60.

And this seems to be the case recently: Titanfall, Ground Zeroes, etc. There seems to be a plethora of AAA games that are focused on graphical capabilities, and thus are lacking more substantive gameplay. So I submit this:

The next-generation consoles, which are now driving game companies to inefficiently and expensively produce games with higher graphical qualities (just look at how much Destiny is rumored to cost), are both causing games to be made with less content due to budget and hurting AAA game designers.


PS. I admit this has been a trend even before next-gen. RIP Irrational.

Yea, these games have terrific graphics, but bad gameplay.

[pekv2]

I guess you need to go newegg ect for windows pc games now, steam, ea for the digital crap, no hard copies like back in the day.

I haven't bought physical media for software in years, so people like me are probably what accelerated that trend.  Then again I don't really see the appeal.  My computer is online, the software is online, often online is a large component of the software, updates are online.  So why do I need a box & DVD to lose or take up space again?

You have your reasons to love/like digital content.

Reason why I like the hard copy is"old school", because well, I payed for it. I own it, digital software can be removed from you at any time "Example", banned account over a jealous admin of a server, ect, hard copy, you can get banned by one server, and play other servers. From my experience, starting up software to load up a MP game[BF4], then go through stupid intro everytime, hard copy old games once you load it after initial install, it shows that intro only once and only once unless you reinstall. That's ?2 minutes? out of my game play, and is very irritating. Also, if you have a slow connection sure, gotta wait a day for 3-8gig game to download.

We both have our reasoning of liking/disliking.

For ppl like me, we lost that advantage.

[DeathAndTaxes]

There is digital content which is DRM free, not everything is steam.  Good ole games is one example.  Within a generation or two consoles won't have media anymore either.

[pekv2]

There is digital content which is DRM free, not everything is steam.  Good ole games is one example.  Within a generation or two consoles won't have media anymore either.

/this rant is not against you D&T
They shouldn't have media either, if we PC gamers can't why should they, oh yea, sony and MS has it locked down, opps not really, ppl do mod their xbox&PS to play burnt games ect.

I think the entire digital content stemmed from piracy & them having control and greed.. Bandwidth prob cost lot less than creating millions of disks n cases with paper.

[DeathAndTaxes]

I think the entire digital content stemmed from piracy & them having control and greed

Well I don't think it is greedy to lower your costs, all business should do that.  I think it also has to do with the same reason anyone sells anything online.  Convenience, direct access, and impulse purchases has a lot to do with it.   I know I have bought games on steam of gog that I wasn't planning on and probably never would have if it involved driving to a store.