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Question: Where would you prefer the VRC/VRM exchange pair be?
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Author Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released  (Read 1349974 times)
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July 15, 2014, 05:36:00 AM
 #9421

Rollback is necessary to build the trust among the community.
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July 15, 2014, 05:37:33 AM
 #9422

Rollback is necessary to build the trust among the community.

HAHAHA... I never thought of it that way before!
/sarcasm
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July 15, 2014, 05:38:06 AM
 #9423

but you chose to bail out mintpal.
The devs chose to not have early users of Vericoin have their coin stolen.

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July 15, 2014, 05:40:00 AM
 #9424

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.


there is no consensus... you either use the new wallet or you get shut out of any future updates and shutout of the exchanges and any other vericoin services. That is the reality of the situation.

Even if you completely disagreed with the rollback the choice was already made for you.

In order to save the coin a precedent was set... now it only remains to be seen how many more times choices will be made for the community instead of by the community.

You are not entirely correct -because there have been some kid -of-similar "precedents" in several cryptos, including BTC.

But since VRC has been a first (and setting some much clearer precedents) in several other things of much higher importance, I don't see any problem at all in either the "precedent" of even the potential recurrence of the "precedent"... if circumstances warrant it.

I believe it is quite clear the community at large, in overwhelming numbers, are behind the dev team. In this "precedent" action and, above all, in the many others set already. Other than the thieves, who are evidently posting here BS non-stop, and more than a few so-called "purists", the vast majority, by like 80% of all stake holders, are not just supportive but extremely supportive -to ridiculous extents, admittedly, in some cases-, of a dev team and a dev team's decisions that are simply quite different from  the shameful actions of most individuals in crypto, an underworld permanently tainted by fraud and thievery... which, openly and to the point of bragging, peculiarly, those so-called "purists" support. Blatantly. Openly.

Well, get this: VRC is a very young coin, obviously experiencing some growing pains or just some growing. Exceptional growing, by any measure, by the way. And it is indeed setting a lot of precedents. This last one establishes, no more no less that the bad guys don't get away with their thievery. Again, that is rising the bar to a new level. And, guess what, the community  supports that. Guess what else: The people outside of the community, supports that too (they, mind you, don't live in a world where criminal acts not only are not accountable, but even bragged about). So the message of it all is clear: The times of the bad guys hidden under anonymous handles is soon to be over. The time of the wild west is coming to a close in crypto. Fast. The bad guys won't be rewarded (and, soon, will be direly punished). So the precedent is of some significance for either VRC will thrive because of this or will die because no new investors/users will come to participate and the community's faith will start to deteriorate in a hurry.

No one knows, for sure, the exact repercussions. But these guys (the devs) are indeed the good guys of crypto after the several precedents, including this one. I am betting that the support will continue and grow significantly in weeks, months and years to come, precisely for that.  
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July 15, 2014, 05:41:19 AM
 #9425

there is no consensus... you either use the new wallet or you get shut out of any future updates and shutout of the exchanges and any other vericoin services. That is the reality of the situation.

Even if you completely disagreed with the rollback the choice was already made for you.

In order to save the coin a precedent was set... now it only remains to be seen how many more times choices will be made for the community instead of by the community.

that being said, when the likely outcomes of inaction are carefully weighed against each other, the powers that be really didn't have a choice either.

Finally, someone who gets it.

Indeed. Inaction could very likely have led to that 30% share of coins being used to destroy VeriCoin, not to mention the fact that VRC owners would have immediately lost millions of dollars.

There were really only two courses of action, IMO. Either fork off the stolen coins to prevent them from ever being used again and let MintPal deal with the repercussions of VRC owners suddenly losing millions of dollars... Or do a rollback to a point in time prior to the theft.

I will admit that I'm a bit torn, but considering the fact that VeriCoin is so young and that only ~$4000 worth of VRC changed hands on the exchanges at that time (far far less than the $2,000,000 that were stolen), the rollback hardly seems like "the end of Cryptocurrency as we know it".

To everyone who's screaming about the rollback, I do understand your arguments, but seriously... where in the hell were you when WorldCoin did their rollback last November after the double-spending and 51% attack? That actually seemed to be received as a positive action by the bulk of the community at the time.

Ignored User Cleanup Script - Completely hide ignored users!
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July 15, 2014, 05:42:20 AM
 #9426

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.


there is no consensus... you either use the new wallet or you get shut out of any future updates and shutout of the exchanges and any other vericoin services. That is the reality of the situation.

Even if you completely disagreed with the rollback the choice was already made for you.

In order to save the coin a precedent was set... now it only remains to be seen how many more times choices will be made for the community instead of by the community.

You are not entirely correct -because there have been some kid -of-similar "precedents" in several cryptos, including BTC.

But since VRC has been a first (and setting some much clearer precedents) in several other things of much higher importance, I don't see any problem at all in either the "precedent" of even the potential recurrence of the "precedent"... if circumstances warrant it.

I believe it is quite clear the community at large, in overwhelming numbers, are behind the dev team. In this "precedent" action and, above all, in the many others set already. Other than the thieves, who are evidently posting here BS non-stop, and more than a few so-called "purists", the vast majority, by like 80% of all stake holders, are not just supportive but extremely supportive -to ridiculous extents, admittedly, in some cases-, of a dev team and a dev team's decisions that are simply quite different from  the shameful actions of most individuals in crypto, an underworld permanently tainted by fraud and thievery... which, openly and to the point of bragging, peculiarly, those so-called "purists" support. Blatantly. Openly.

Well, get this: VRC is a very young coin, obviously experiencing some growing pains or just some growing. Exceptional growing, by any measure, by the way. And it is indeed setting a lot of precedents. This last one establishes, no more no less that the bad guys don't get away with their thievery. Again, that is rising the bar to a new level. And, guess what, the community  supports that. Guess what else: The people outside of the community, supports that too (they, mind you, don't live in a world where criminal acts not only are not accountable, but even bragged about). So the message of it all is clear: The times of the bad guys hidden under anonymous handles is soon to be over. The time of the wild west is coming to a close in crypto. Fast. The bad guys won't be rewarded (and, soon, will be direly punished). So the precedent is of some significance for either VRC will thrive because of this or will die because no new investors/users will come to participate and the community's faith will start to deteriorate in a hurry.

No one knows, for sure, the exact repercussions. But these guys (the devs) are indeed the good guys of crypto after the several precedents, including this one. I am betting that the support will continue and grow significantly in weeks, months and years to come, precisely for that.  

I never thought I would EVER say this about IE/barabbas but...... +1
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July 15, 2014, 05:45:18 AM
 #9427

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.
that being said,
when the likely outcomes of inaction are carefully weighed against each other, the powers that be really didn't have a choice either.
Finally, someone who gets it.
Exactly, there was no choice but to do the rollback.  I'm glad we all agree on this.  I think we also all agree that centralized exchanges are bad.  Centralized mining is pretty horrible.    And features like Verisend NEED to be open source to be useful.

Way to quote out of text asshole
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July 15, 2014, 05:45:35 AM
 #9428

Everyone with knowledge about cryptos knows that their were a couple of other options to save the coin (e.g. removing the stolen coins from the supply), but you chose to bail out mintpal.

30% of Vericoin holders had their investment preserved is what happened.

Quote
to break a fundamental rule.

What is this? the Torah? Even the Jews break their laws. Did you read this thing. Fuck your archaic rules. 30% of Vericoin holders just don't feel like having to deal with the tyranny of these rules.


Quote
Its a sad day in crypto,

Oh poor you, poor baby, you want mommy to make it all better for you?

Quote
especially since this wasn't a scam coin but a serious crypto project.

Saving 30% of Vericoin users was the serious thing to do. Suicide for some silly rule is not serious. It's giving up.

Quote
This move will never be forgotten.

Yes, Vericoin made history, and it's only in 14th place in market cap. It's going up.


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July 15, 2014, 05:47:00 AM
 #9429

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.


there is no consensus... you either use the new wallet or you get shut out of any future updates and shutout of the exchanges and any other vericoin services. That is the reality of the situation.

Even if you completely disagreed with the rollback the choice was already made for you.

In order to save the coin a precedent was set... now it only remains to be seen how many more times choices will be made for the community instead of by the community.

You are not entirely correct -because there have been some kid -of-similar "precedents" in several cryptos, including BTC.

But since VRC has been a first (and setting some much clearer precedents) in several other things of much higher importance, I don't see any problem at all in either the "precedent" of even the potential recurrence of the "precedent"... if circumstances warrant it.

I believe it is quite clear the community at large, in overwhelming numbers, are behind the dev team. In this "precedent" action and, above all, in the many others set already. Other than the thieves, who are evidently posting here BS non-stop, and more than a few so-called "purists", the vast majority, by like 80% of all stake holders, are not just supportive but extremely supportive -to ridiculous extents, admittedly, in some cases-, of a dev team and a dev team's decisions that are simply quite different from  the shameful actions of most individuals in crypto, an underworld permanently tainted by fraud and thievery... which, openly and to the point of bragging, peculiarly, those so-called "purists" support. Blatantly. Openly.

Well, get this: VRC is a very young coin, obviously experiencing some growing pains or just some growing. Exceptional growing, by any measure, by the way. And it is indeed setting a lot of precedents. This last one establishes, no more no less that the bad guys don't get away with their thievery. Again, that is rising the bar to a new level. And, guess what, the community  supports that. Guess what else: The people outside of the community, supports that too (they, mind you, don't live in a world where criminal acts not only are not accountable, but even bragged about). So the message of it all is clear: The times of the bad guys hidden under anonymous handles is soon to be over. The time of the wild west is coming to a close in crypto. Fast. The bad guys won't be rewarded (and, soon, will be direly punished). So the precedent is of some significance for either VRC will thrive because of this or will die because no new investors/users will come to participate and the community's faith will start to deteriorate in a hurry.

No one knows, for sure, the exact repercussions. But these guys (the devs) are indeed the good guys of crypto after the several precedents, including this one. I am betting that the support will continue and grow significantly in weeks, months and years to come, precisely for that.  

I never thought I would EVER say this about IE/barabbas but...... +1

It could be that you are growing up Will, I doubt it but could be. You direly need to though. And use whatever matter you have under your hair significantly more too.
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July 15, 2014, 05:49:54 AM
 #9430

and just like that I hate him again
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July 15, 2014, 05:50:04 AM
 #9431

but you chose to bail out mintpal.
The devs chose to not have early users of Vericoin have their coin stolen.

The devs chose to act as a central banker would.

ANTI-CRYPTO is what Vericoin is.

Vericoin is the Paypal of Crypto.

Vericoin devs = Ben Bernanke!

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July 15, 2014, 05:50:56 AM
 #9432

Well, get this: VRC is a very young coin, obviously experiencing some growing pains or just some growing. Exceptional growing, by any measure, by the way. And it is indeed setting a lot of precedents. This last one establishes, no more no less that the bad guys don't get away with their thievery. Again, that is rising the bar to a new level. And, guess what, the community  supports that. Guess what else: The people outside of the community, supports that too (they, mind you, don't live in a world where criminal acts not only are not accountable, but even bragged about). So the message of it all is clear: The times of the bad guys hidden under anonymous handles is soon to be over. The time of the wild west is coming to a close in crypto. Fast. The bad guys won't be rewarded (and, soon, will be direly punished). So the precedent is of some significance for either VRC will thrive because of this or will die because no new investors/users will come to participate and the community's faith will start to deteriorate in a hurry.

No one knows, for sure, the exact repercussions. But these guys (the devs) are indeed the good guys of crypto after the several precedents, including this one. I am betting that the support will continue and grow significantly in weeks, months and years to come, precisely for that.  

Well said, your whole post, but I like this part the best.  I think to add to this, people believe that only one digital currency will survive or will work or be supported or etc.    In the end it will be just like Visa, Mastercard, American Express, etc.   There will be different coins with different benefits, and I think Vericoin is well establishing how they want to be and work.     I think Dogecoin does this as well, with their purposely lower value and how it is used with online tipping and crowdfunding/charity through a great community.    Bitcoin will be used for high end transactions, prostitution, and buying illegal drugs.   All of this is just speculation and random thoughts though.

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July 15, 2014, 05:51:26 AM
 #9433

Wow, Patrick, you really did it. You did a rollback of the blockchain and wrote history with it. Everyone with knowledge about cryptos knows that their were a couple of other options to save the coin (e.g. removing the stolen coins from the supply), but you chose to bail out mintpal. You even were offered support for fixing the issue in a reasonable way, but still you used your honorable achieved credibility to break a fundamental rule. Its a sad day in crypto, especially since this wasn't a scam coin but a serious crypto project.

This move will never be forgotten. To the community, if you all trust a single dev so much, here is the perfect solution for you: Fork again and increase the supply such that pnosker owns 50% of all coins which he should never spend on anything and only use for staking. You will be save, forever! Have a good life.

i think the bold part needs more explanation, what other options were passed up on?
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July 15, 2014, 05:51:34 AM
 #9434

I am trying to be objective here.  If you are serious about your coin, why would you fork it because an exchange was lax on security issues of said coin unless you were seriously vested in it?
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July 15, 2014, 05:52:56 AM
 #9435

Everyone with knowledge about cryptos knows that their were a couple of other options to save the coin (e.g. removing the stolen coins from the supply), but you chose to bail out mintpal.

30% of Vericoin holders had their investment preserved is what happened.

Quote
to break a fundamental rule.

What is this? the Torah? Even the Jews break their laws. Did you read this thing. Fuck your archaic rules. 30% of Vericoin holders just don't feel like having to deal with the tyranny of these rules.


Quote
Its a sad day in crypto,

Oh poor you, poor baby, you want mommy to make it all better for you?

Quote
especially since this wasn't a scam coin but a serious crypto project.

Saving 30% of Vericoin users was the serious thing to do. Suicide for some silly rule is not serious. It's giving up.

Quote
This move will never be forgotten.

Yes, Vericoin made history, and it's only in 14th place in market cap. It's going up.


It was possible to write a fork that preserves the money without making a full roll back of the blockchain. Its technically slightly more difficult, but achievable, and you would know how if you would spend more time understanding this technology instead of doing price talk all day which makes crypto look like ponzi schemes. Have fun with your market cap so you can cash out at some day into fiat because you are not interested at all in creating an international currency.
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July 15, 2014, 05:53:02 AM
 #9436

@Bitcoinporn, don't quote me out of context please, thank you
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July 15, 2014, 05:53:31 AM
 #9437

Wow, Patrick, you really did it. You did a rollback of the blockchain and wrote history with it. Everyone with knowledge about cryptos knows that their were a couple of other options to save the coin (e.g. removing the stolen coins from the supply), but you chose to bail out mintpal. You even were offered support for fixing the issue in a reasonable way, but still you used your honorable achieved credibility to break a fundamental rule. Its a sad day in crypto, especially since this wasn't a scam coin but a serious crypto project.

This move will never be forgotten. To the community, if you all trust a single dev so much, here is the perfect solution for you: Fork again and increase the supply such that pnosker owns 50% of all coins which he should never spend on anything and only use for staking. You will be save, forever! Have a good life.

i think the bold part needs more explanation, what other options were passed up on?

The option to burn all the stolen coins and leave mintpal owing to the users for one.
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July 15, 2014, 05:53:36 AM
 #9438

I agree what you described there is decentralization. That is distributed consensus which the rollback is controversial but enough chose to be on that particular fork.
that being said,
when the likely outcomes of inaction are carefully weighed against each other, the powers that be really didn't have a choice either.
Finally, someone who gets it.
Exactly, there was no choice but to do the rollback.  I'm glad we all agree on this.  I think we also all agree that centralized exchanges are bad.  Centralized mining is pretty horrible.    And features like Verisend NEED to be open source to be useful.

Way to quote out of text asshole

 Cheesy  C'mon now, you excluded the best part of everything he said first, I just put it back in, no need for names, we can have good discussion even in disagreements  Grin

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July 15, 2014, 05:54:57 AM
 #9439

and just like that I hate him again

hahaha.. 

can you repost no. of tickets sold to date and details in case people want to buy more lottery tickets
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July 15, 2014, 05:55:16 AM
 #9440

but you chose to bail out mintpal.
The devs chose to not have early users of Vericoin have their coin stolen.

The devs chose to act as a central banker would.

ANTI-CRYPTO is what Vericoin is.

Vericoin is the Paypal of Crypto.

Vericoin devs = Ben Bernanke!



FIAT monetary systems cannot be directly compared to crypto. They have similarities, but are still two different worlds. More importantly the devs were forced into a corner. The only other option was to leave the chain as is and allow one individual to have 8M coins. If that person were to stake 8M coins, they would then control the chain and can double-spend (51% attack). VRC would be dead.

I don't think you're considering the entire situation.
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