[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released

[pnosker]

I am not a mathematician, obviously, but my common sense tells me bundles about the potential repercussions of such a huge number of fictitious coins staking at any given moment, but I'll patiently wait for that update in the wallet that allows everyone to actually know the real number of coins that VRC has for the 26.8 mill given by Patrick is obviously an approximation I don't know based on what... 30 (or more) million coins staking can produce a significant number of additional coins by the day.

26.8M coins exist (26,811,507 right now to be exact). http://chainz.cryptoid.info/vrc has a realtime count of coins in the blockchain. There is no discrepency with the total coins in existence-- just that you didn't understand that network stake weight is not exactly the same as total coin count.

[1713540425]

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[1713540425]

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[effectsToCause]

http://vrcstake.ticonerd.com/ went trough the roof lol

why is the 24 high at 28M when total coins is only 26M?

i would like to know that too

Yeah the stake is not directly coins. It's a coin weight that includes coinage (time since last earned interest for each coin). It's essentially normalized including coinage and is close to the total coins staking but a bit more complex. Nonetheless this is some historic staking for POS I suspect and is near the realistic maximum. Impressive show of community strength!  Kudos to all you guys! Go VeriCoin!  

Hey Doug, at the end pf the day you are going to have to explain this a whole lot more clearly so EVERYONE can understand because right now, before the end of the day, this is starting to sound suspiciously, very suspiciously, like a whole lot of CRAP.

How can a coin that has a max of less than 26 mill coins, all already mined during the POW stage, has now 28 million coins STAKING? This is preposterous. Everyone knows that there are A LOT of coins still NOT STAKING and lying on the exchanges (I know I have quite a few and they are not staking a single VRC), so how the heck can so many coins be staking? An understandable answer, without ANY bull shit, is required rather immediately, long before the end of the day, ok?

Ok first off these aren't fake numbers (this is not a scam).
Since the dawn of PoS network stake is a weight including coinage. The reason is for fair distribution of staking. If the number of coins is the only factor involved in determining the probability of a node solving a block then the small wallets would hardly ever stake. So this weight is actually the appropriate stake value for fair distribution of the stake.

However it would be much more intuitive to monitor just the number of coins currently staked.  This number is in the code but is not accessible in a function of its own without coinage, because the age determines which coins in a given wallet are actually staking.  In the next wallet Update though I will add this pure total coin staking value as that would be more of an appropriate value to intuitively monitor. Nonetheless the weight is not going to be too much bigger than the total.

What would you consider "too much bigger" Doug? We have had a high of over 28 million just in the past 24 hours and I believe it would be quite safe to assume that at least 6 or more million of the total 26.8 million are deposited currently in the different exchanges, quite probably significantly more than 6 million, so if the maximum REAL number was, for instance, 20 million coins -and I DO NOT believe that many have been staking, not even close-, and the weighted coin age network number surpassed 28 million, you would still think the number would not "be too much bigger"?

And, by the way, you just contradicted Patrick -and the choir boys- making abundantly clear what is even more abundantly obvious: That you can indeed know THE EXACT number of coins staking at any given moment, the REAL number of coins. It would be quite nice if any, at least Patrick, would  acknowledge it, don't you think?

What Pat meant was it's not possible to pull out that number without editing code.  In the current wallet it's not possible.  By not too much I mean it's relatively attributable to the coin amount give or take some percentage for age. For instance in stake dips  it's quite likely that the number drops below the potentially stakable coin due to young age.  It would however be clearer to just have the raw number of coins to monitor as well.

Well thank you Doug for finally getting my point AND doing something about it since, it is painfully obvious that the current numbers are, in fact, totally meaningless because, as I edited added to my previous post, the current given numbers could be in fact so staggeringly out of touch with the real ones that it could approximate or even surpass DOUBLE those real numbers.

I am not a mathematician, obviously, but my common sense tells me bundles about the potential repercussions of such a huge number of fictitious coins staking at any given moment, but I'll patiently wait for that update in the wallet that allows everyone to actually know the real number of coins that VRC has for the 26.8 mill given by Patrick is obviously an approximation I don't know based on what... 30 (or more) million coins staking can produce a significant number of additional coins by the day.

Oh and Patrick, I don't have to ask Sunny King anything. I ask you because I have invested in you... one of the reasons for it being that I was under the impression that the "dynamic" interest was actually an improvement in the POS distribution model of Sunny King, one that would allow everyone to know, at any moment, the EXACT amount of coins that were staking in the network and the exact amount of total coins in existence. Hopefully, the new iteration of the wallet will provide that sooner rather than later. I will (im)patiently wait...  

And yes I remember that post and given that I have a very good memory, most of all others. Feel indeed free to correct me if I stated in error the numerical order of your alma mater... I expected you to come with some sensible explanation as to what effect did you really wanted to have placing sell order with your 200k coins, really. That doesn't require a special level of intelligence, does it? If you sell, the pressure that you put is towards sending the price down; if you buy, the pressure goes on the other direction. Pretty simple, really. Even for anyone not having studied in an university ranked below 23rd or even community college and I would even say basic education at a very early level, so it would be nice to know exactly what it was that you were trying to achieve... correction, how were you trying to achieve that nobody but you "... would lose anything".

For the record. Total coins that exist are not in question here just the difference between network stake weight value and total coins currently in stake.

[lootz]

Not to change the conversation but did anyone else get a huge-ass payout from the mining pool - really huge

[barabbas]

I am not a mathematician, obviously, but my common sense tells me bundles about the potential repercussions of such a huge number of fictitious coins staking at any given moment, but I'll patiently wait for that update in the wallet that allows everyone to actually know the real number of coins that VRC has for the 26.8 mill given by Patrick is obviously an approximation I don't know based on what... 30 (or more) million coins staking can produce a significant number of additional coins by the day.

26.8M coins exist (26,811,507 right now to be exact). http://chainz.cryptoid.info/vrc has a realtime count of coins in the blockchain. There is no discrepency with the total coins in existence-- just that you didn't understand that network stake weight is not exactly the same as total coin count.

Well it isn't just that I "didn't understand...". It is more like we all are finding out that you really don't know what the wallet can do and that Doug, the wallet man, has a "loose" concept, to say the least, of what "too much bigger (a number)" actually is. And since I hope I have demonstrated the staggering nature of the difference in numbers, it is IMPLIED that it has an equally staggering influence in the number of coins being "mined" through staking.

This is very significant since it all seems -and I certainly hope to be 100% wrong in my assumption- to be so ahead of the "limit" of approximately 2.25% yearly maximum total interest that it's not funny at all. There will be time, very soon indeed, to address the repercussions of those hugely bigger numbers staking, so I won't anticipate anything hoping, indeed, to be somewhat as out of touch with the final interest as Dough is regarding the "too big a number" statement.

[barabbas]

Not to change the conversation but did anyone else get a huge-ass payout from the mining pool - really huge

Not only it isn't changing the subject it is, actually, a nice aside for perhaps some would assume that the proceeds from the mining pool somewhat increase the total number of VRC. That would be a WRONG assumption since the proceeds of the mining pool are simply VRC that is bought in the open market -therefore taken from the exchanges deposits- and transferred to the miner's VRC wallets. It doesn't increase the total number of coins until (and through it) they start staking.

[lootz]

Not to change the conversation but did anyone else get a huge-ass payout from the mining pool - really huge

Not only it isn't changing the subject it is, actually, a nice aside for perhaps some would assume that the proceeds from the mining pool somewhat increase the total number of VRC. That would be a WRONG assumption since the proceeds of the mining pool are simply VRC that is bought in the open market -therefore taken from the exchanges deposits- and transferred to the miner's VRC wallets. It doesn't increase the total number of coins until (and through it) they start staking.

soooooo you saying you got a big payout also ?

[pnosker]

Not to change the conversation but did anyone else get a huge-ass payout from the mining pool - really huge

We had some pool issues over the past couple of weeks revolving around the DDoS attacks on the pool and the supernodes. I just manually paid out the discrepancy today. Congrats on the bulk VRC!

I am not a mathematician, obviously, but my common sense tells me bundles about the potential repercussions of such a huge number of fictitious coins staking at any given moment, but I'll patiently wait for that update in the wallet that allows everyone to actually know the real number of coins that VRC has for the 26.8 mill given by Patrick is obviously an approximation I don't know based on what... 30 (or more) million coins staking can produce a significant number of additional coins by the day.

26.8M coins exist (26,811,507 right now to be exact). http://chainz.cryptoid.info/vrc has a realtime count of coins in the blockchain. There is no discrepency with the total coins in existence-- just that you didn't understand that network stake weight is not exactly the same as total coin count.

Well it isn't just that I "didn't understand...". It is more like we all are finding out that you really don't know what the wallet can do and that Doug, the wallet man, has a "loose" concept, to say the least, of what "too much bigger (a number)" actually is. And since I hope I have demonstrated the staggering nature of the difference in numbers, it is IMPLIED that it has an equally staggering influence in the number of coins being "mined" through staking.

This is very significant since it all seems -and I certainly hope to be 100% wrong in my assumption- to be so ahead of the "limit" of approximately 2.25% yearly maximum total interest that it's not funny at all. There will be time, very soon indeed, to address the repercussions of those hugely bigger numbers staking, so I won't anticipate anything hoping, indeed, to be somewhat as out of touch with the final interest as Dough is regarding the "too big a number" statement.

When we released the coin we originally stated an expected 1.5-2.5% interest per year. Even with a network stake weight of 30M, the interest still falls below 2.5% yearly interest. I'm not sure where you're getting your twice as big number from, but that's not possible. The most the interest rate could get to if everyone had a lot of coin age and staked at once is still below 3% interest, close to 2.5%.

[syclone]

Jesus barabbas, you are setting back the timeline for all the VRC Devs... relax.

[Autodidact]

I enjoy reading these conversations, thanks for clearing everything up guys!

[socal]

Loot read my post 1-2 pages back lol I posted a pic of the huge payout I got

[aragoon]

Bot the heck is going on? Can anyone exterminate these bots please? Swings are getting rediculus. 

[socal]

Bot the heck is going on? Can anyone exterminate these bots please? Swings are getting rediculus. 

yup, how "bullshit" are my manipulation claims now? (aragoon I know you never said they were I was referring to someone else)

[redsn0w]

Why does the price drop every single day ? is there any good news to pump the price up ? I bought my stash at 20k and it seems I have lost 40 % of my capital 

[socal]

Why does the price drop every single day ? is there any good news to pump the price up ? I bought my stash at 20k and it seems I have lost 40 % of my capital  

Please check out here, there is also some other things the Devs are working on but have not been announced because they are very preliminary and subject to change and not to mention the ever present lack of volume, and artificial price suppression, I am sure that once some of our bigger features come out volume will return full force (or at least full force for the state the alt coin market is in right now) and the price manipulators will be bought out and they will no longer be able to stop our uptrends.

Notice how for the past few weeks EVERYTIME we have started an uptrend the price gets dumped back to the starting point of the uptrend? Classic sign of manipulation

[XbladeX]

....
Yes this has been happening the past two weeks or so either whales accumulating or a well funded attack trying to kill VRC by artificially suppressing the price either way all we have to do is buy out the manipulators and NOT DUMP and there will be a clear shot back up.
....

Hmm - nice theory but in reality there is 2nd.

SO - Do you think that all markets can be manipulated all at once?
LTC NXT DOGE PPC DRK... all is going down (only some big IPO not ).

Now what could happened... Current big IPOs + many big scams ( AC WC USB EDGE XLB +51% attacks ) lets value it.
Etherum - $14.5m
Bitshares - $6m
Scams - $2m

So you have over real $20m taken  from market in last 6 months.
Those are money directly taken out from alt scene...

Do you think when coin is rated at $10m market cap it needs $8m dump to get price -80%.
No because order books are thick you sell 100 BTC of coin = 60 000$and you will dump price to -50%.

Now think how devastating was that +$20 000 000 m IPOs for TOP 20 marketcap coins
most of those money comes from other alts.
New big IPO are coming...
SysCoin - how many BTC it will cut off -  I don't know seriously
(if that will be again IPO for few m$ then expect to price fall more on ALL alts )

[setup]

I wonna say thanks to the devs for spending their time in answering the questions. This and the huge payouts from the mining pool and from staking in the last 24 hours gave me back the good feeling and confidence I was beginning to lose.

[troicho]

I wonna say thanks to the devs for spending their time in answering the questions. This and the huge payouts from the mining pool and from staking in the last 24 hours gave me back the good feeling and confidence I was beginning to lose.

+1
Big thanks to the dev team for clarifying all the things.

[souljah1h]

Just sit and hold tight. We will get there

The longest quest is the journey to fortune
And while it's okay to do well and succeed in life
We often forget to live
This is an expedition, crusade if you will
To go for that moment when time freezes
And where everything changes
But nothing seems to matter anymore
So let right now be a point in time
Where you recognize that not all wealth is silver and gold
And that most of the time the prize isn't the endgame
But the road towards it

[altcoinUK]

I am not a mathematician, obviously, but my common sense tells me bundles about the potential repercussions of such a huge number of fictitious coins staking at any given moment, but I'll patiently wait for that update in the wallet that allows everyone to actually know the real number of coins that VRC has for the 26.8 mill given by Patrick is obviously an approximation I don't know based on what... 30 (or more) million coins staking can produce a significant number of additional coins by the day.

26.8M coins exist (26,811,507 right now to be exact). http://chainz.cryptoid.info/vrc has a realtime count of coins in the blockchain. There is no discrepency with the total coins in existence-- just that you didn't understand that network stake weight is not exactly the same as total coin count.

Well it isn't just that I "didn't understand...". It is more like we all are finding out that you really don't know what the wallet can do and that Doug, the wallet man, has a "loose" concept, to say the least, of what "too much bigger (a number)" actually is. And since I hope I have demonstrated the staggering nature of the difference in numbers, it is IMPLIED that it has an equally staggering influence in the number of coins being "mined" through staking.

This is very significant since it all seems -and I certainly hope to be 100% wrong in my assumption- to be so ahead of the "limit" of approximately 2.25% yearly maximum total interest that it's not funny at all. There will be time, very soon indeed, to address the repercussions of those hugely bigger numbers staking, so I won't anticipate anything hoping, indeed, to be somewhat as out of touch with the final interest as Dough is regarding the "too big a number" statement.

I think Barrabas you have raised a very valid point (usually you do) by questioning the difference between the network weight and number of actual staking coins. It's quite encouraging that the devs made effort to address the issue by answering here and have listened you, and then EffectsToCasuse said a new function will be in a new release to provide users with the number of actual staking coins.

To go forward I would suggest don't be so harsh with the devs please. I have been also very critical with the devs, but these young guys obviously aren't scammers. I guess under pressure people make unwise moves like moving 200k to bittrex, but the fact that Pnosker disclosed this info himself indicate that it wasn't a malicious action. Pnosker is trying his best to address all rumours about him and he made clear that he didn't buy any BMW M3 from the vericoin money, he is still committed to the project, he is not dumping his coins, he didn't move the 200K to bittrex to dump it. Plus these guys offer a very transparent process for investors by putting their name in the public domain.
In my opinion there is a very positive change in the last 1-2 days, namely that the devs started to talk to the community in this thread and instead of just communicating with their cheerleading brigade they started to interact with the investors, bag holders, potential new investors of this thread as well. I guess we shouldn't alienate the devs from this process, let's keep the momentum going, let them deliver something that hopefully change the down trend.

[InvestorPerson]

Just sit and hold tight. We will get there

and by sitting and holding tight the value will go up how? i love those slogans, just repeat them from time to time and everything will be ok