Anon is hammering the Justice Department

[MoonShadow]

Apparently, the US Justice Department has arrested four founders of a website popular with Anonymous, and charged them with conspiricy to commit copyright infringment.  Anonymous has responded with the largest DOS attack in years, if not ever. 

Never disturb a sleeping dragon.

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[Eveofwar]

FBI.gov just went down recently it looks like.

I enjoyed this quote.

"We are having website problems, but we're not sure what it's from," a DOJ spokeswoman told CNNMoney.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/19/technology/megaupload_shutdown/

[notme]

When the site comes back online, check out www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/n-dex

[RandyFolds]

Goddamn, Kim Dotcom is awesome...

[Iyeman]

They should start ddosing and never stop

[Bind]

This will be a typical mafia-type prosecution under RICO. When they are eventually extradited, they will pound the smallest fish to give testimony against the other 3 to put the final nail in the coffin. Not that they need it really. The evidence is pretty substancial inclusive of in-house emails between management basically allowing, suggesting, and advocating piracy, intentional mechanisms to keep pirated content while masking their deletion by multiple file identifiers going to the same files which were specifically designed to make content owners think they were being deleted when they were not, and a complex financial system for ill-gotten gain from it all.

For being so smart, these individuals were very stupid and lacked any common sense. They knew what they were doing was illegal and to remain in any country that had extradition treaties was simply idiotic.

They deserve the decades of prison time they will get and the loss of eveything they hold dear for their stupidity.

[paraipan]

whatever, sharing culture is not and will not ever be an illegal activity, regarding all the efforts put to make us think otherwise. Culture is not an industry, the artists will have to cut the middle-man to be able to live off their work. Bitcoin is here...

[RandyFolds]

This will be a typical mafia-type prosecution under RICO. When they are eventually extradited, they will pound the smallest fish to give testimony against the other 3 to put the final nail in the coffin. Not that they need it really. The evidence is pretty substancial inclusive of in-house emails between management basically allowing, suggesting, and advocating piracy, intentional mechanisms to keep pirated content while masking their deletion by multiple file identifiers going to the same files which were specifically designed to make content owners think they were being deleted when they were not, and a complex financial system for ill-gotten gain from it all.

For being so smart, these individuals were very stupid and lacked any common sense. They knew what they were doing was illegal and to remain in any country that had extradition treaties was simply idiotic.

They deserve the decades of prison time they will get and the loss of eveything they hold dear for their stupidity.

You seem to be confused. Do you drive a Rolls Phantom?

[Bind]

whatever, sharing culture is not and will not ever be an illegal activity, regarding all the efforts put to make us think otherwise. Culture is not an industry, the artists will have to cut the middle-man to be able to live off their work. Bitcoin is here...

It's about property rights. Specifically, theft of someone elses property they made investments in creating - we call that a business enterprise for profit - makes no nevermind if its wood chairs, music, cell phones, movies, computers, software, or widgets. Pretty simple really. The "culture sharing" comment is an inept justification of simple theft to deprive the owner thereof. They were middle persons knowingly facilitating and enabling it. The only thing that makes it "cultural" is a consumers interest in using and enjoying it. Its still someone elses protected property. Many consider their clothing and cars as cultural, so they should be free... right?

Be careful what you wish for, else I might consider your watch, ring, house, and wallet as cultural.

This will be a typical mafia-type prosecution under RICO. When they are eventually extradited, they will pound the smallest fish to give testimony against the other 3 to put the final nail in the coffin. Not that they need it really. The evidence is pretty substancial inclusive of in-house emails between management basically allowing, suggesting, and advocating piracy, intentional mechanisms to keep pirated content while masking their deletion by multiple file identifiers going to the same files which were specifically designed to make content owners think they were being deleted when they were not, and a complex financial system for ill-gotten gain from it all.

For being so smart, these individuals were very stupid and lacked any common sense. They knew what they were doing was illegal and to remain in any country that had extradition treaties was simply idiotic.

They deserve the decades of prison time they will get and the loss of eveything they hold dear for their stupidity.

You seem to be confused. Do you drive a Rolls Phantom?

Please explain. I have no idea what you mean. Confused about what ?

[RandyFolds]

This will be a typical mafia-type prosecution under RICO. When they are eventually extradited, they will pound the smallest fish to give testimony against the other 3 to put the final nail in the coffin. Not that they need it really. The evidence is pretty substancial inclusive of in-house emails between management basically allowing, suggesting, and advocating piracy, intentional mechanisms to keep pirated content while masking their deletion by multiple file identifiers going to the same files which were specifically designed to make content owners think they were being deleted when they were not, and a complex financial system for ill-gotten gain from it all.

For being so smart, these individuals were very stupid and lacked any common sense. They knew what they were doing was illegal and to remain in any country that had extradition treaties was simply idiotic.

They deserve the decades of prison time they will get and the loss of eveything they hold dear for their stupidity.

You seem to be confused. Do you drive a Rolls Phantom?

Please explain. I have no idea what you mean. Confused about what ?

I am saying that you are some broke chump criticizing a fucking baller who rose to the top by providing a service that people want and stealing nothing.

Let me pose a question for you: If I take a Montsanto sunflower seed, grow it, harvest the seeds and plant ten of them the next year, am I stealing from Montsanto?

[paraipan]

This will be a typical mafia-type prosecution under RICO. When they are eventually extradited, they will pound the smallest fish to give testimony against the other 3 to put the final nail in the coffin. Not that they need it really. The evidence is pretty substancial inclusive of in-house emails between management basically allowing, suggesting, and advocating piracy, intentional mechanisms to keep pirated content while masking their deletion by multiple file identifiers going to the same files which were specifically designed to make content owners think they were being deleted when they were not, and a complex financial system for ill-gotten gain from it all.

For being so smart, these individuals were very stupid and lacked any common sense. They knew what they were doing was illegal and to remain in any country that had extradition treaties was simply idiotic.

They deserve the decades of prison time they will get and the loss of eveything they hold dear for their stupidity.

You seem to be confused. Do you drive a Rolls Phantom?

Please explain. I have no idea what you mean. Confused about what ?

I am saying that you are some broke chump criticizing a fucking baller who rose to the top by providing a service that people want and stealing nothing.

Let me pose a question for you: If I take a Montsanto sunflower seed, grow it, harvest the seeds and plant ten of them the next year, am I stealing from Montsanto?

meh, patents on seeds, this is going overboard

[MoonShadow]

whatever, sharing culture is not and will not ever be an illegal activity, regarding all the efforts put to make us think otherwise. Culture is not an industry, the artists will have to cut the middle-man to be able to live off their work. Bitcoin is here...

It's about property rights. Specifically, theft of someone elses property they made investments in creating

Information isn't property.  Even the framers of the US Constitution recognized this, by refusing to enshrine copyright as a eternal right.  If it was a property, they wouldn't have been opposed to perpetual copyrights; for that matter, they probably wouldn't have felt a need to mention copyrights as all in the US Constitution, if they regarded it as a form of personal property.

[FreeMoney]

whatever, sharing culture is not and will not ever be an illegal activity, regarding all the efforts put to make us think otherwise. Culture is not an industry, the artists will have to cut the middle-man to be able to live off their work. Bitcoin is here...

It's about property rights. Specifically, theft of someone elses property they made investments in creating

Information isn't property.  Even the framers of the US Constitution recognized this, by refusing to enshrine copyright as a eternal right.  If it was a property, they wouldn't have been opposed to perpetual copyrights; for that matter, they probably wouldn't have felt a need to mention copyrights as all in the US Constitution, if they regarded it as a form of personal property.

Along these lines. Does anyone think that legislators who pass bills allowing a creators copyright to eventually expire are endorsing theft? Does it become right to steal the creators work just because it loses legal protection? Would stealing a car become right if 300 old men said so? Does anyone here actively avoid using public domain works without compensating the creator?

[RandyFolds]

This will be a typical mafia-type prosecution under RICO. When they are eventually extradited, they will pound the smallest fish to give testimony against the other 3 to put the final nail in the coffin. Not that they need it really. The evidence is pretty substancial inclusive of in-house emails between management basically allowing, suggesting, and advocating piracy, intentional mechanisms to keep pirated content while masking their deletion by multiple file identifiers going to the same files which were specifically designed to make content owners think they were being deleted when they were not, and a complex financial system for ill-gotten gain from it all.

For being so smart, these individuals were very stupid and lacked any common sense. They knew what they were doing was illegal and to remain in any country that had extradition treaties was simply idiotic.

They deserve the decades of prison time they will get and the loss of eveything they hold dear for their stupidity.

You seem to be confused. Do you drive a Rolls Phantom?

Please explain. I have no idea what you mean. Confused about what ?

I am saying that you are some broke chump criticizing a fucking baller who rose to the top by providing a service that people want and stealing nothing.

Let me pose a question for you: If I take a Montsanto sunflower seed, grow it, harvest the seeds and plant ten of them the next year, am I stealing from Montsanto?

meh, patents on seeds, this is going overboard

I've got me a huge collection of patented GM seeds in my freezer. Sometimes, you gotta pilfer from the botany lab. Hopefully I don't grow any extra limbs...

[Bind]

I am saying that you are some broke chump criticizing a fucking baller who rose to the top by providing a service that people want and stealing nothing.

Let me pose a question for you: If I take a Montsanto sunflower seed, grow it, harvest the seeds and plant ten of them the next year, am I stealing from Montsanto?

I am criticizing their lack of common sense compared to their business acumen... not their financial "success" compared to my own. If you can really call it success. I am quite happy being a middle class businessman, husband, father, and friend to those around me. If it would mean the rest of my life in prison away from my wife, my kids, and my family and friends, I certainly would decline participation in activities that do not promote the causes of true freedom and liberty... even those with possibilities of wealth beyond comprehension to be taken away by those prosecuting me. Simply put, there is no jealousy as your post insinuates. As to the "success" term you used... many would disagree with that label for: sitting in a prison cell awaiting extradition to a country that most likely will force you to forfeit all your locatable money and property, and imprisoning you for the rest of your life when convicted.

They knew they were breaking laws, but did little to realistically protect themselves. They were not ballers flagrantly and publicly thumbing their noses at an unjust opressive system out of some altruistic need to spread awareness for change. They did it for the money. Got greedy. Were actually scared of the authorities. And got caught because of their greed. They went to great lengths to hide and protect their true natures as pirates and thieves within the platform they created, but the technology they used came back to bite them. If you read the email evidence (their own words) you would realise this. Then they stayed in countries with extradition treaties. Would prudence not require they relocate to countries with a more favorable extradition process, or none at all. I mean really, there are approx 84 countries with either no treaties or treaties specifically exempt from extradition with the United States and other western industrialized nations.

In the end, Kim was hiding like a scared rat in a panic room in his mansion, crying and sniveling, with a shotgun at his side he was to much of a coward to use to either; go out like a Baller/Gansta taking as many of "the man" with him on his way, or to kill himself ... unlike the Gansta or Baller many thought him to be.

As to monsanto, you certainly would be breaking the law because they have patented their own "roundup-ready" seed products. They created them and they own them. To get them you must contract with monsanto to get them and the roundup fertilizer, or steal them. It's a system. Why anyone would want a monsanto seed without the fertilizer in unknown. Its kind of a rediculous proposition really.  What would not be illegal is for you to buy your own non-monsanto seeds and live a full happy life farming with them. You can certainly obtain sunflower seeds that are not patented and genetically altered by monsanto, so I find the parallel you are trying to draw irrelevent. Now, if there ever comes a day when Monsanto, Cargill, Archer Daniels Midland, or any other agricultural conglomerate tried to patent a complete naturally-occurring plant species, then we have problems (like all sunflowers, etc). That said, agricultural conglomerates abuse the legal system in ways I do not think is right. They have taken to court farmers near customers of theirs whos plants have been cross polinated/contaminated by Monsanto products, genetically altering the next generation which they claim ownership of, subsiquently claiming basically theft. This has put many out of business because of the financial costs of lawsuits. This needs to stop and the agricultural conglomerates need to compensate them. Polination can not be controlled. Its part of the natural process and the cost of doing business if you are an agri-business selling modified patented seeds.

Information isn't property.  Even the framers of the US Constitution recognized this, by refusing to enshrine copyright as a eternal right.  If it was a property, they wouldn't have been opposed to perpetual copyrights; for that matter, they probably wouldn't have felt a need to mention copyrights as all in the US Constitution, if they regarded it as a form of personal property.

To say "information isnt property", means you think there should be absolutely no copyrights, trademarks, or patents at all on anything.

All products and services, from the beginning of time, are information... knowledge.

It's saying all the stuff we enjoy has always existed in some form, thus it should be free to everyone regardless of the considerable research and development time, learning, and costs associated with them. To me this is no different than the socialists who want to throw everyones shit in a pile, by force, to share.

Its saying someone elses hard work means nothing because its all iinformation and knowledge based, because its derived from one basic principle. The increased awareness and knowledge of the world around us leading to our ability to manipulate the world around us into products and services we find useful.

To me, its as basic as fruit from the tree. If someone creates something society finds useful by manipulating the earths resources through discovered and applied knowledge, they and all their heirs should forever be compensated and remembered for what they have provided society, unless they choose to give it freely and agree to no compensation. Anything less than that means they, and their heirs, are providing it against their will, by force, which is tyrannical and oppressive slavery.

[Hawker]

...snip...

Information isn't property.  Even the framers of the US Constitution recognized this, by refusing to enshrine copyright as a eternal right.  If it was a property, they wouldn't have been opposed to perpetual copyrights; for that matter, they probably wouldn't have felt a need to mention copyrights as all in the US Constitution, if they regarded it as a form of personal property.

To say "information isnt property", means you think there should be absolutely no copyrights, trademarks, or patents at all on anything.

...snip...

That's exactly his position.  We discussed it in a thread about intellectual property.  They really do feel entitled to take the product of your work without your consent.

[MoonShadow]

...snip...

Information isn't property.  Even the framers of the US Constitution recognized this, by refusing to enshrine copyright as a eternal right.  If it was a property, they wouldn't have been opposed to perpetual copyrights; for that matter, they probably wouldn't have felt a need to mention copyrights as all in the US Constitution, if they regarded it as a form of personal property.

To say "information isnt property", means you think there should be absolutely no copyrights, trademarks, or patents at all on anything.

...snip...

That's exactly his position.  We discussed it in a thread about intellectual property.  They really do feel entitled to take the product of your work without your consent.

I feel entitled to remain free from coercion.  To advocate the position that information is property, is to engage the collective forces of governments & society to compel those who do not agree with you to comply with your ideology.  I advocate only for the natural default conditions whenever force isn't used against the peaceful.

[Hawker]

...snip...

Information isn't property.  Even the framers of the US Constitution recognized this, by refusing to enshrine copyright as a eternal right.  If it was a property, they wouldn't have been opposed to perpetual copyrights; for that matter, they probably wouldn't have felt a need to mention copyrights as all in the US Constitution, if they regarded it as a form of personal property.

To say "information isnt property", means you think there should be absolutely no copyrights, trademarks, or patents at all on anything.

...snip...

That's exactly his position.  We discussed it in a thread about intellectual property.  They really do feel entitled to take the product of your work without your consent.

I feel entitled to remain free from coercion.  To advocate the position that information is property, is to engage the collective forces of governments & society to compel those who do not agree with you to comply with your ideology.  I advocate only for the natural default conditions whenever force isn't used against the peaceful.

Me too.  The difference is you feel entitled to my property. 

Anyway, its off topic to this thread so I let you have the last word.

[kais3r]

any news on this?

[RandyFolds]

I am saying that you are some broke chump criticizing a fucking baller who rose to the top by providing a service that people want and stealing nothing.

Let me pose a question for you: If I take a Montsanto sunflower seed, grow it, harvest the seeds and plant ten of them the next year, am I stealing from Montsanto?

As to monsanto, you certainly would be breaking the law because they have patented their own "roundup-ready" seed products. They created them and they own them. To get them you must contract with monsanto to get them and the roundup fertilizer, or steal them. It's a system. Why anyone would want a monsanto seed without the fertilizer in unknown. Its kind of a rediculous proposition really.  What would not be illegal is for you to buy your own non-monsanto seeds and live a full happy life farming with them. You can certainly obtain sunflower seeds that are not patented and genetically altered by monsanto, so I find the parallel you are trying to draw irrelevent. Now, if there ever comes a day when Monsanto, Cargill, Archer Daniels Midland, or any other agricultural conglomerate tried to patent a complete naturally-occurring plant species, then we have problems (like all sunflowers, etc). That said, agricultural conglomerates abuse the legal system in ways I do not think is right. They have taken to court farmers near customers of theirs whos plants have been cross polinated/contaminated by Monsanto products, genetically altering the next generation which they claim ownership of, subsiquently claiming basically theft. This has put many out of business because of the financial costs of lawsuits. This needs to stop and the agricultural conglomerates need to compensate them. Polination can not be controlled. Its part of the natural process and the cost of doing business if you are an agri-business selling modified patented seeds.

I am not talking about roundup-ready crops, and the fertilizers and soil conditioners to be used in conjunction with RR have nothing to do with it. They hold thousands upon thousands of patents on plants that have never been cultivated outside a lab. Maybe I just want one that produces a higher concentration of oil per kernel than the regular old Burpee seed packets. I am talking about patented genetics...genetics that some may know as merely a store of information. You say that there are other sunflowers...yeah, there are over 10,000 Asteracea species, but I am not talking about them. I am talking about one.

Say I never take the seed...say I drop a cutting into my tissue culture hood and form my own plants from a small scraping. I do it regularly as a hobby. If I culture it, flower it, and harvest the fruit, how in the fuck can they still own it? Stealing involves something being taken, and not being available to the original owner anymore. Culturing, breeding, or copying, if you please, are not theft and cause no monetary loss.

If I build the exact same car as Ford, spending billions of dollars to manufacture my parts to their specs, did I commit grand theft auto? Cause I am pretty sure that is an implication of your stance...