[ANN] CureCoin 2.0 is live - Mandatory Update is available now - DEC 2018

[shaka256]

I've discovered today that there is a quite active (161 pages at the moment) Spells of Genesis forum on Bitcointalk : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=957797.0

Maybe they can give you all the answers on how to get rid of your cards

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[bardacuda]

Of course I'm stuck on the "more cards" concept as that is what any rational person would do. Of course a 6-card 1080 rig will beat a 6-card 1070 rig, because 1080s are faster. Even a 5 year old can figure that out. If that is all you are trying to convice me of, then don't bother. I agree 100%.

So let's explore the dumb idea of taking the cost of a 6-card 1080 rig and instead using the same money to build 1070 rigs (No one has an unlimited budget and if you did, why bother to mine? Even if the budget is much greater all the numbers here will just scale proportionally). Let's assume that the cost of the rest of the rig equals the cost of a 1070...or $400 USD:

$600 x 6 + $400 = $4000 (The cost of a 6-card 1080 rig)
Now, being the neanderthal that I am, I decide to take that same amount of money and buy 1070s instead, because "Oooh, I can has even more shinies!"
So I spend $800 on two barebones rigs and have $3200 left over and buy 8x 1070 cards. Well I must be dumb, because I have 33% more cards but they get 33% less PPD, but I'm also paying more for power!

Ignoring the  electric difference (~$15.77 USD per year for *total system* @ $0.01 per kWh):

GTX 1070
Cost: ~$400 USD
PPD: 600,000
FLDC per month: 12,000 - ~$14.72 USD
CURE per month: 787 - ~$35.43 USD
Purchase ROI: ~8 months "raw cost" per card
Yearly Revenue: ~$599 USD

GTX 1080
Cost: ~$600 USD
PPD: 800,000
FLDC per month: 16,000 - ~$19.29 USD
CURE per month: 1050 - ~$47.25 USD
Purchase ROI: ~9 months "raw cost" per card
Yearly Revenue: ~$798 USD

The only way 1070 tops 1080 is with a constrained initial "budget" where one would be buying 6x1070 vs 4x1080; however, in that narrow of a constraint, ROI isn't an actual concern (as it's trumped by initial purchase limitations).

*total system* revenue of 6 cards is 1070 ~$3,593.48 per year and 1080 ~$4,791.31 per year.

So let's use your own numbers AND give the 1080s the benefit of the doubt and assume they draw the same amount of power per card as a 1070 rather than 20% more. I will be paying $21.03 whereas you are paying $15.77 (something tells me this number is wrong, but of course you did the math in every way shape and form), yet we are both making $4791.31 per year as you say.

Now we can stop here, and again it's easy to see that the 1080 system comes out ahead by almost $6/year. Wowza!

But, for some idiotic reason I decide I would rather have more income, so once I earn enough to add more cards I do that. At $4791.31 per year, I will earn that amount divided by 365.25 per day, or $13.12...minus the cost of power ($21.03 / 365.25 = 5.7­¢), so $13.06. After 30.6 days I will have enough to buy another 1070. Let's call it 31 days to simplify things and err on the side of the 1080 system. So one month in I am now earning [($4791.31 - $21.03) / 365.25] * 9/8 , or $14.69 per day with the power cost now factored in, whereas you are still earning ($4791.31 - $15.77) / 365.25 = 13.07 per day and have accumulated $405.32 in profits, and (thinking maybe there is something to this "more income" shenannigans) buy yourself a shiny new rig but which is devoid of GPUs (or don't. Whatever).

Shall I continue?

After 27.22 days (let's call it 28 just 'cuz) I buy myself another 1070, and am now earning $14.69 * 10/9...or $16.33...per day, and you will have accumulated $771.13 (or $13.07 x 59 days) and spent $400, leaving you with $377.13 and still only 6 1080s and an income of $13.07....

Do I really need to continue at this point? I can but I'll stop here. Clearly you know how this ends up as you have already done the math in every which way. I'm glad you don't have buyer's remorse and are happy with your purchases, but to imply that anyone that does different (and you DID imply this) is somehow not smart, is simply wrong. Good day!

[ComputerGenie]

....

Your math is so far off, it's no wonder that you're confused.


600,000 PPD * 8 1070s = 4,800,000 PPD
800,000 PPD * 6 1080s = 4,800,000 PPD

OK, so you've spent the same $ to get the same PPD, except:
8 1070s * 150 watts = 1200 + 10% = 1320 Watts @ the wall
6 1080s * 180 watts = 1080 + 10% = 1188 Watts @ the wall

So, based on the Canadian average of $0.10, you're spending $0.70 per day ($21 per month) just to have "shiny things".

Now, you go on about some zero ROI repurchase plan...
Firstly, unless your day 28 falls on the 1st Saturday of the month and you live in Magicland (where you can sell your FLDC and get the card you purchase with that sale installed on the same day), you're theory is flawed from the get go....

I'm just too bored with you to explain why your thought process will leave you behind in the long run. Good day to you, sir.

[shaka256]

@(ComputerGenie & Bardcuda)

Maybe instead of fighting you should meet around a beer, do the math together peacefully and then write a white paper about the absolutely most optimal configuration for high performance folding that could be published on CURE, FLDC and F@H websites

[artoar_11]

Ignoring the  electric difference (~$15.77 USD per year for *total system* @ $0.01 per kWh):

GTX 1070
Cost: ~$400 USD
PPD: 600,000
FLDC per month: 12,000 - ~$14.72 USD
CURE per month: 787 - ~$35.43 USD
Purchase ROI: ~8 months "raw cost" per card
Yearly Revenue: ~$599 USD

GTX 1080
Cost: ~$600 USD
PPD: 800,000
FLDC per month: 16,000 - ~$19.29 USD
CURE per month: 1050 - ~$47.25 USD
Purchase ROI: ~9 months "raw cost" per card
Yearly Revenue: ~$798 USD

The only way 1070 tops 1080 is with a constrained initial "budget" where one would be buying 6x1070 vs 4x1080; however, in that narrow of a constraint, ROI isn't an actual concern (as it's trumped by initial purchase limitations).

*total system* revenue of 6 cards is 1070 ~$3,593.48 per year and 1080 ~$4,791.31 per year.

I think there is an error while calculations for "FLDC per month". I have a 1070 overclocked. According to my calculations, should I get about 30k FLDC per month after halving.

[bardacuda]

@(ComputerGenie & Bardcuda)

Maybe instead of fighting you should meet around a beer, do the math together peacefully and then write a white paper about the absolutely most optimal configuration for high performance folding that could be published on CURE, FLDC and F@H websites

Only if I get a hug first

[ComputerGenie]

I think there is an error while calculations for "FLDC per month". I have a 1070 overclocked. According to my calculations, should I get about 30k FLDC per month after halving.

You have one GTX 1070 card overclocked enough to get 1,500,000 PPD out of it?

[artoar_11]

I think there is an error while calculations for "FLDC per month". I have a 1070 overclocked. According to my calculations, should I get about 30k FLDC per month after halving.

You have one GTX 1070 card overclocked enough to get 1,500,000 PPD out of it?

1070 @ 2.0 GHz: 670k PPD
970 @ 1.43 GHz: 370k PPD
From 12.17.2016 to 12.31.2016 I received 25.3k FLDC (~1/2 month). Before halving I was getting (on both cards) about 102k FLDC per month.

[ComputerGenie]

I think there is an error while calculations for "FLDC per month". I have a 1070 overclocked. According to my calculations, should I get about 30k FLDC per month after halving.

You have one GTX 1070 card overclocked enough to get 1,500,000 PPD out of it?

1070 @ 2.0 GHz: 670k PPD
970 @ 1.43 MHz: 370k PPD
From 12.17.2016 to 12.31.2016 I received 25.3k FLDC (~1/2 month). Before halving I was getting (on both cards) about 102k FLDC per month.

Ahhhhh

We'll all know more in a week or so; however, for folks I've talked to, the general thought is roughly PPD*0.02. That's, of course, not taking into account that for every flop that the network grows, the per user FLDC diminishes (hence the "I'm too lazy to explain" comments).

As a side note, if we're wrong in our "PPD*0.02" estimate, the flip-side is that:
For every bit we're short on our estimate, the lead of 1 GTX1080 (vs 1 GTX1070) grows exponentially by whatever we're off.

[bardacuda]

http://foldingcoin.xyz/?token=FLDC&total=250000&start=2017-01-28&end=2017-01-29

Click "show stats"

Ctrl+F and find your address (or any address that had more than 0 if you just want to figure out the PPD per FLDC ratio)
Your PPD for that day (28th in this case) will appear in the right-most column.
Find-next (F3) and you will see your FLDC "payout" for that day.
Divide to get the ratio.

In my case 511k PPD / 763 FLDC = 670 PPD / FLDC or 0.0015 FLDC / PPD (again, this is valid for the 28th only as "difficulty" can change)

EDIT: Edited to adjust for the recent halvening.

[artoar_11]

http://foldingcoin.xyz/?token=FLDC&total=500000&start=2017-01-28&end=2017-01-29

Click "show stats"

Ctrl+F and find your address (or any address that had more than 0 if you just want to figure out the PPD per FLDC ratio)
Your PPD for that day (28th in this case) will appear in the right-most column.
Find-next (F3) and you will see your FLDC "payout" for that day.
Divide to get the ratio.

In my case 511k PPD / 1526 FLDC = 335 PPD / FLDC or 0.003 FLDC / PPD (again, this is valid for the 28th only as "difficulty" can change)

After December 17, 2016 everything should be divided /2. Is that correct?

[ComputerGenie]

After December 17, 2016 everything should be divided /2. Is that correct?

If you keep the link with "500000", then yes.

Edit: It should be noted, however, that that is only an estimate and only covers a given day..

[bardacuda]

After December 17, 2016 everything should be divided /2. Is that correct?

Not 100% but I'm pretty sure the halvening is already taken into account with these stats. I don't know though cuz I stopped folding for about a month in early November after ZEC was released and then I spent another month not doing anything cuz I rearranged everything to do a crossfire setup and test out Star Citizen. Only just started folding again about a week ago and haven't gotten another payout yet.

EDIT:

If you keep the link with "500000", then yes.

Ahh in that case let me edit that post.

EDIT2: Fixed!

[artoar_11]

After December 17, 2016 everything should be divided /2. Is that correct?

If you keep the link with "500000", then yes.

Edit: It should be noted, however, that that is only an estimate and only covers a given day..

Thanks, corrected link.

http://foldingcoin.xyz/?token=FLDC&total=250000&start=2017-01-28&end=2017-01-29

[QuintLeo]

....

Your math is so far off, it's no wonder that you're confused.


600,000 PPD * 8 1070s = 4,800,000 PPD
800,000 PPD * 6 1080s = 4,800,000 PPD

OK, so you've spent the same $ to get the same PPD

 By your own figures, you've spent $3200 on the 1070s but $3600 on the 1080s.

 (the $400 and $600 are close enough I'm not going to quibble over the actual pricing, which is a very little less in both cases to go with the lowest-cost cards on Newegg on any given day).

 *HOWEVER* your figure of 800K PPD for a 1080 appears to be HIGHLY optimistic based on the database at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vcVoSVtamcoGj5sFfvKF_XlvuviWWveJIg_iZ8U2bf0/pub?output=html# (I don't have any 1080s so I can't compare based on my own figures), while that 600k figure is in line with my 1070 farm of VERY MILDLY overclocked 1070 cards but very PESSAMISTIC vs the database.

 I think you're trying to make a case here based on BAD DATA.

[cryptohunter]

what happened to the other coin they were releasing with curecoin?

they did an alpha or beta release and it went wrong?

What is happening with that coin and when is the snap shot on the cure coin wallet?

It was some quantum resistant new design?

Is it shelved for good or is it still worth holding this cure coins in my wallet awaiting some snapshot date to quality for the new coin?

I have seen no futher mention of it in months now?

[ComputerGenie]

....

Your math is so far off, it's no wonder that you're confused.


600,000 PPD * 8 1070s = 4,800,000 PPD
800,000 PPD * 6 1080s = 4,800,000 PPD

OK, so you've spent the same $ to get the same PPD

 By your own figures, you've spent $3200 on the 1070s but $3600 on the 1080s.

 (the $400 and $600 are close enough I'm not going to quibble over the actual pricing, which is a very little less in both cases to go with the lowest-cost cards on Newegg on any given day).

 *HOWEVER* your figure of 800K PPD for a 1080 appears to be HIGHLY optimistic based on the database at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vcVoSVtamcoGj5sFfvKF_XlvuviWWveJIg_iZ8U2bf0/pub?output=html# (I don't have any 1080s so I can't compare based on my own figures), while that 600k figure is in line with my 1070 farm of VERY MILDLY overclocked 1070 cards but very PESSAMISTIC vs the database.

 I think you're trying to make a case here based on BAD DATA.

• The pricing in that comment is using is his figures, not mine
• Figuring PPD based off of 1 WU (a single job of a single project run - which is what that sheet does if you actually look at the numbers) is the epitome of "BAD DATA"

EDIT:

• "This database was created to compare frame times with other users in order to see whether your PPD is where it should be or if there is something wrong with the system (instability, incorrect client configuration, throttling etc.)"

[bardacuda]

By your own figures, you've spent $3200 on the 1070s but $3600 on the 1080s.

 (the $400 and $600 are close enough I'm not going to quibble over the actual pricing, which is a very little less in both cases to go with the lowest-cost cards on Newegg on any given day).

 *HOWEVER* your figure of 800K PPD for a 1080 appears to be HIGHLY optimistic based on the database at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vcVoSVtamcoGj5sFfvKF_XlvuviWWveJIg_iZ8U2bf0/pub?output=html# (I don't have any 1080s so I can't compare based on my own figures), while that 600k figure is in line with my 1070 farm of VERY MILDLY overclocked 1070 cards but very PESSAMISTIC vs the database.

 I think you're trying to make a case here based on BAD DATA.

• The pricing in that comment is using is his figures, not mine

Actually those were your figures. My figures were $550 and $800 CAD respectively (even though it's actually more like $510 vs. $780 for the cheapest dual or triple fan design but I was being conservative). I knew if I used my own figures you would nitpick everything.

@QuintLeo, the difference comes from the fact that you need an extra $400 for the rest of the components of each rig (One really good PSU like an EVGA 1300W G2 and then cheap/used everything else, milk crate or self-built wood/aluminum or whatever for case/chassis etc.). You only need one rig for 6 cards and two rigs for 8. I wanted to use his own example of the worst case for the 1070s where you need to pay for an extra rig and only get 7 or 8 cards to show that even in that worst case and with his overly optimistic 1080 PPD numbers, the 1070s still come out ahead. But of course it's still wrong because FLDC only pays out once a month lol.

But you're completely ignoring the fact that the guy with lower per-rig income would have 50% more of those rigs lol

Now, I'm sure you're still stuck on the "more cards" end of your thought so, remember this...
Cards 7 & 8 will need another full set of hardware to run.

Ignoring the  electric difference (~$15.77 USD per year for *total system* @ $0.01 per kWh):

GTX 1070
Cost: ~$400 USD
PPD: 600,000
FLDC per month: 12,000 - ~$14.72 USD
CURE per month: 787 - ~$35.43 USD
Purchase ROI: ~8 months "raw cost" per card
Yearly Revenue: ~$599 USD

GTX 1080
Cost: ~$600 USD
PPD: 800,000
FLDC per month: 16,000 - ~$19.29 USD
CURE per month: 1050 - ~$47.25 USD
Purchase ROI: ~9 months "raw cost" per card
Yearly Revenue: ~$798 USD

...

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what happened to the other coin they were releasing with curecoin?

they did an alpha or beta release and it went wrong?

What is happening with that coin and when is the snap shot on the cure coin wallet?

It was some quantum resistant new design?

Is it shelved for good or is it still worth holding this cure coins in my wallet awaiting some snapshot date to quality for the new coin?

I have seen no futher mention of it in months now?

I think Vorksholk was waiting on some legal or copyright stuff or something like that but it was more or less finished...that was my understanding anyway.

[ComputerGenie]

@ bardacuda It seems you have trouble following along, so let me hlp you:

...
$600 x 6 + $400 = $4000 (The cost of a 6-card 1080 rig)
Now, being the neanderthal that I am, I decide to take that same amount of money and buy 1070s instead, because "Oooh, I can has even more shinies!"
So I spend $800 on two barebones rigs and have $3200 left over and buy 8x 1070 cards...

...

OK, so you've spent the same $ to get the same PPD

...

By your own figures, you've spent $3200 on the 1070s but $3600 on the 1080s...

...

• The pricing in that comment is using is his figures, not mine

...

[bardacuda]

Nope I follow just fine. The $400/$600 and PPD/power figures all came from you. Only the rig cost came from me.