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Author Topic: Crypto X Change - $5 + % Deposit / Withdraw Fee Will Resume This Last week May  (Read 5643 times)
miernik
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May 27, 2012, 09:11:26 AM
 #61

You honestly think that any legit company is going to publicly promise to be non-compliant with AML/CTF/KYC requirements for your benefit?

No AML/CTF/KYC laws require or even allow a company to hold funds received. If they can't identify the user, they should immediately return the funds where they came from - bounce the transfer. Exactly as if they got a random erroneous transfer. That's what all respectable AML/CTF/KYC compliant companies do, I've seen this happen at a currency broker. AurumXchange even has it written in their terms.

Failure to identify - treat the incoming transfer as an erroneous random transfer - immediate bounce back.

Holding funds is unacceptable. Bounce is the only proper way to deal with this. Huge currency brokers who deal with much more volume then BTC exchanges do this. They know the law. They can't afford their name to be ruined.

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repentance
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May 27, 2012, 09:34:56 AM
 #62

You honestly think that any legit company is going to publicly promise to be non-compliant with AML/CTF/KYC requirements for your benefit?

No AML/CTF/KYC laws require or even allow a company to hold funds received. If they can't identify the user, they should immediately return the funds where they came from - bounce the transfer. Exactly as if they got a random erroneous transfer. That's what all respectable AML/CTF/KYC compliant companies do, I've seen this happen at a currency broker. AurumXchange even has it written in their terms.

Failure to identify - treat the incoming transfer as an erroneous random transfer - immediate bounce back.

Holding funds is unacceptable. Bounce is the only proper way to deal with this. Huge currency brokers who deal with much more volume then BTC exchanges do this. They know the law. They can't afford their name to be ruined.

You've made this same argument in another thread concerning people using fake ID documents and it's simply not true that businesses are required to return funds to the original account if verification fails - in many cases, they would be in breach of AML requirements if they did so.  AurumXchange operates under Dominica laws.  These are not the same as the Australian laws by which CryptoXchange is governed, although you might want to brush up on what AurumXchange has to say about AML.

Quote
Please note that AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. under aforementioned laws has the right to refuse a transaction at any time should suspicion arise that it may be connected to money laundering or any other criminal activity. In addition, AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. will be obliged to report this suspicious activity in order to comply with said regulations, and internationally accepted laws and customs which also prohibits AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. from disclosing this information.

Providing AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. with false identification or contact details will be deem as a misuse of our terms of service. AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. is legally bound to report such misdemeanors to the Dominica’s authorities, and as such you may be the subject to a criminal investigation
.

Frankly, many of your posts create the impression that you're actively seeking an exchange which is not compliant with AML/KYC requirements.  If you already know currency brokers who are non-compliant then by all means feel free to use them, but don't expect that businesses which are required by law to hold funds pending satisfactory verification of identity are going to stop doing so because you don't like the process.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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May 28, 2012, 03:31:47 AM
 #63

You honestly think that any legit company is going to publicly promise to be non-compliant with AML/CTF/KYC requirements for your benefit?

No AML/CTF/KYC laws require or even allow a company to hold funds received. If they can't identify the user, they should immediately return the funds where they came from - bounce the transfer. Exactly as if they got a random erroneous transfer. That's what all respectable AML/CTF/KYC compliant companies do, I've seen this happen at a currency broker. AurumXchange even has it written in their terms.

Failure to identify - treat the incoming transfer as an erroneous random transfer - immediate bounce back.

Holding funds is unacceptable. Bounce is the only proper way to deal with this. Huge currency brokers who deal with much more volume then BTC exchanges do this. They know the law. They can't afford their name to be ruined.

You've made this same argument in another thread concerning people using fake ID documents and it's simply not true that businesses are required to return funds to the original account if verification fails - in many cases, they would be in breach of AML requirements if they did so.  AurumXchange operates under Dominica laws.  These are not the same as the Australian laws by which CryptoXchange is governed, although you might want to brush up on what AurumXchange has to say about AML.

Quote
Please note that AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. under aforementioned laws has the right to refuse a transaction at any time should suspicion arise that it may be connected to money laundering or any other criminal activity. In addition, AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. will be obliged to report this suspicious activity in order to comply with said regulations, and internationally accepted laws and customs which also prohibits AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. from disclosing this information.

Providing AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. with false identification or contact details will be deem as a misuse of our terms of service. AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. is legally bound to report such misdemeanors to the Dominica’s authorities, and as such you may be the subject to a criminal investigation
.

Frankly, many of your posts create the impression that you're actively seeking an exchange which is not compliant with AML/KYC requirements.  If you already know currency brokers who are non-compliant then by all means feel free to use them, but don't expect that businesses which are required by law to hold funds pending satisfactory verification of identity are going to stop doing so because you don't like the process.

+1

holy crap, miernik is either a scammer or a full blown mongoloid. It's not even funny...
miernik
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May 28, 2012, 03:42:32 AM
 #64

holy crap, miernik is either a scammer or a full blown mongoloid. It's not even funny...

Its a pity this forum has no way to add a user to some personal "list of people never to make transactions with". We could both make good use of it, couldn't we?

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May 28, 2012, 03:53:48 AM
 #65

holy crap, miernik is either a scammer or a full blown mongoloid. It's not even funny...

Its a pity this forum has no way to add a user to some personal "list of people never to make transactions with". We could both make good use of it, couldn't we?

No worries on this end, I'll remember you just fine without a forum feature.

miernik
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May 28, 2012, 04:08:42 AM
 #66

You've made this same argument in another thread concerning people using fake ID documents and it's simply not true that businesses are required to return funds to the original account if verification fails - in many cases, they would be in breach of AML requirements if they did so.  AurumXchange operates under Dominica laws.  These are not the same as the Australian laws by which CryptoXchange is governed, although you might want to brush up on what AurumXchange has to say about AML.

Quote
Please note that AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. under aforementioned laws has the right to refuse a transaction at any time should suspicion arise that it may be connected to money laundering or any other criminal activity. In addition, AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. will be obliged to report this suspicious activity in order to comply with said regulations, and internationally accepted laws and customs which also prohibits AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. from disclosing this information.

Providing AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. with false identification or contact details will be deem as a misuse of our terms of service. AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. is legally bound to report such misdemeanors to the Dominica’s authorities, and as such you may be the subject to a criminal investigation
.

Frankly, many of your posts create the impression that you're actively seeking an exchange which is not compliant with AML/KYC requirements.  If you already know currency brokers who are non-compliant then by all means feel free to use them, but don't expect that businesses which are required by law to hold funds pending satisfactory verification of identity are going to stop doing so because you don't like the process.

Nowhere in your quote does it say AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS can hold funds in any case. It only says "AURUM CAPITAL HOLDINGS INC. is legally bound to report such misdemeanors to the Dominica’s authorities, and as such you may be the subject to a criminal investigation". So... a report goes to whatever authorities they are bound by, but funds go back to where they came from.

How about reading: https://www.aurumxchange.com/content/terms
Quote
User may be asked to provide additional documentation for the purposes of verifying the user's identity at the sole discretion of AURUMXCHANGE.COM.

Verification documentation must be sent within 5 calendar days from the time of the order to the email address provided on the order verification email. If the user does not provide the requested documentation within the aforementioned time period, the order will be voided and funds for the order in question returned as explained on paragraph 5.

5. AURUMXCHANGE.COM may at its sole discretion return the received funds less fees and administration costs (Minimum of 20 EUR) in the following cases:

Purpose of payment (Memo, Payment info) in the bank wire is missing or incorrect.

Funds were sent from an account under a different name (name does not match user's name).

3rd party payment (user had someone else send funds from their bank account to user's e-currency account or vice versa as explained in paragraph 2).

There is a reasonable suspicion that received funds are fraudulent.

User refuses to submit verification documents (as explained in paragraph 4).

There is a reasonable suspicion that verification documents are counterfeit.

The order in question has been placed from an anonymous IP address (as explained in paragraph 3).

User failed to provide verification documentation on a timely manner as explained on paragraph 4.

6. All gathered information about the user will be handed to the user's local law enforcement authorities if there is a reasonable suspicion of money laundering, attempt to defraud, attempt to send fraudulent funds, or attempt to counterfeit personal documents.

All what is handed to local law enforcement authorities is information. Not funds. The only entity that can allow or request for an exchange to do something different with the funds from either executing the customers order or returning it where they came from is a local court order. Not some staff of a financial company - but a judge of the local jurisdiction. Even the police can not hold a person more then 48 hours without a court order issued by a judge.

repentance
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May 28, 2012, 07:34:55 AM
 #67

CryptoXchanges website states that it is compliant with FAFT recommendations.  As a bullion dealer, it is both a KYC and a STR covered entity for the purposes of AML/CFT requirements.

You can download a copy of those recommendations here.

http://www.fatf-gafi.org/topics/fatfrecommendations/documents/fatfrecommendations2012.html

Dominica is substantially non-compliant or partially compliant with the recommendations.  It is non-compliant with 4 out of the 6 core recommendations and is therefore deemed by the FATF to have "significant AML deficiencies".  It is compliant or largely compliant with only 7 of the 40 + 9 recommendations and still classified as an offshore finance jurisdiction.  It is absurd to compare how AML/CFT requirements are applied in largely non-compliant nations with how they are applied in nations which are largely compliant.

You can actually check on the overall compliance status of various nations here.

http://www.knowyourcountry.com/index.html

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
miernik
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May 28, 2012, 08:04:47 AM
 #68

Useful links, thanks, will read in free time.

Maybe I'll create my own organisation with a nice acronym, with "recommendations", etc, and encourage exchanges to implement them, and blacklist those non-compliant.

Its all politics.

Freedom-minded people vs. authoritarians.

Innocent-until-proven-guilty vs. everybody-is-suspect.

I already have my own rating of exchanges, with levels of trust how much of my BTC worth of Bitcoin+fiat at once I'd let under their control.

I have 5 levels: 10 BTC, 30 BTC, 100 BTC, 300 BTC and 1000 BTC.

By default a new unknown exchange gets 30 BTC, and based on what I find out gets rated up or down.

Very few have 300 BTC, none have 1000 BTC.

At the moment CryptoXchange has 10 BTC, lets see where it goes.






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