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Author Topic: witholding transaction fees...  (Read 1171 times)
CliffordM
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January 22, 2012, 02:39:22 PM
 #1

I'm sure this has been raised already, but surely miners are incentivised not to forward transactions with transaction fees?

This isn't a big deal at the moment, but as transaction fees become juicier per block, won't miners (and in particular, big pools) try
to keep transactions with fees for inclusion in the blocks they solve rather than broadcast them to other miners ?

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realnowhereman
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January 22, 2012, 02:58:48 PM
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But the sender is incentivised so will maintain wide connections and non miner nodes are neutral so will forward if they aren't malicious.

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CliffordM
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January 22, 2012, 03:06:17 PM
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What incentivises the sender to relay hi-fee transactions rather than hold into them ? 
Gabi
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January 22, 2012, 03:13:38 PM
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The sender usually isn't a miner, so it has to make sure the transactions reach as more miners as possible.
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January 23, 2012, 01:21:04 PM
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What incentivises the sender to relay hi-fee transactions rather than hold into them ? 

Erm... it's their transaction.  Why would they even create it if they didn't want it in the blockchain?

It's in the sender's interest to have their transaction worked on by as many miners as possible, so that the time-to-inclusion is as low as possible.

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interlagos
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January 23, 2012, 02:19:22 PM
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There has been a research paper by Microsoft Research on how to solve this problem in the future:

News article:
http://coderrr.wordpress.com/2011/11/13/simplified-summary-of-microsoft-researchs-bitcoin-paper-on-incentivizing-transaction-propagation/

Original paper:
research.microsoft.com/pubs/156072/bitcoin.pdf

Or just google "Bitcoin and Red Balloons"
cbeast
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January 23, 2012, 02:45:26 PM
 #7

It was discussed here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=51712.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=51662.0

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
PrintCoins
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January 24, 2012, 12:15:35 AM
 #8

I'm sure this has been raised already, but surely miners are incentivised not to forward transactions with transaction fees?

This isn't a big deal at the moment, but as transaction fees become juicier per block, won't miners (and in particular, big pools) try
to keep transactions with fees for inclusion in the blocks they solve rather than broadcast them to other miners ?



Transactions without fees take much longer to get included in a block. The reality is that all nodes bounce around transactions, so if a miner kept a transaction secret, someone else would pass it around.

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January 24, 2012, 12:31:14 AM
 #9

A similar argument would be that Bittorrent users have no motivation to seed files, and therefore Bittorrent will collapse.  That hasn't happened.

I don't think this will ever become an issue.  If it does, people would start inviting others to send their transactions directly to them, bypassing the port 8333 bitcoin network.  The whole internet is a giant P2P network - nothing says that a transaction creator couldn't blast their outgoing transactions to thousands of nodes on a list by direct connection to their IP.  And one advantage Bitcoin has over Bittorrent is that transactions are always small - nobody should have a problem blasting out their own transactions to a large number of nodes on even the slowest internet connection.


Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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