[Poll] Should the minimum wage be raised?

[zx81]

$100/hour? Obviously not

Why not? What would be the worst that could happen?

hyper-inflation would happen

[hilariousandco]

Why should there be a minimum wage in the first place?

To stop employers exploiting their employees and paying them peanuts.

[Elwar]

Obviously there should be a standard minimum living wage set by law

I keep seeing this word "obviously" as if the government being involved in every part of our lives is so natural. That is quite scary (the ease of giving up freedom).

What exactly do you suggest as an alternative? No government and allowing people to pay their employees whatever they want?

Yes! Allow people to be free, freely exchanging services for compensation...a mutually agreed upon salary without the threat of a gun.

I don't see how were giving up freedom...

And that is the main problem in the US...though most people do not understand what freedom really is. Government telling you what to do is not it.

[Elwar]

Yes, just consider what would happen to prices if wages of people working in labor-intensive and service fields would increase x10.

People losing their jobs, automation and robots for as many jobs as possible, even more jobs going overseas.

Welcome to McDonalds, may I take your order:

[Elwar]

Why should there be a minimum wage in the first place?

To stop employers exploiting their employees and paying them peanuts.

Why work for those employers? Vote with your feet.

If you do not have that option, you obviously do not have skills that are of any value.

[hilariousandco]

Obviously there should be a standard minimum living wage set by law

I keep seeing this word "obviously" as if the government being involved in every part of our lives is so natural. That is quite scary (the ease of giving up freedom).

What exactly do you suggest as an alternative? No government and allowing people to pay their employees whatever they want?

Yes! Allow people to be free, freely exchanging services for compensation...a mutually agreed upon salary without the threat of a gun.

I don't see how were giving up freedom...

And that is the main problem in the US...though most people do not understand what freedom really is. Government telling you what to do is not it.

Shall we abolish punishment for rape and murder as well and let people settle their differences the good old fashion way? I'm sure living in a libertarian utopia is great in theory, but I've yet so see a workable solution from anyone. All I ever hear is 'government is bad' and 'without the threat of guns' etc.

Why should there be a minimum wage in the first place?

To stop employers exploiting their employees and paying them peanuts.

Why work for those employers? Vote with your feet.

If you do not have that option, you obviously do not have skills that are of any value.

And for those that don't have a choice? What's the option? I guess they'll have the right to choose to be homeless and starve to death, right?

And that's a very snobby and elitist/condescending thing to say.

[Ekaros]

Free market doesn't work for labour market as some participant have needs they must fullfill.

[Elwar]

Shall we abolish punishment for rape and murder as well and let people settle their differences the good old fashion way?

A cheap security service to protect yourself from such crimes would be more efficient for people initiating force against you.

And for those that don't have a choice? What's the option? I guess they'll have the right to choose to be homeless and starve to death, right?

And that's a very snobby and elitist/condescending thing to say.

If you decide not to choose you still have made a choice. This is a huge world. You can work anywhere, there are jobs all over. Who are these people with no choice?

Go where the jobs are. Go where you can live on whatever wage is paid. I left the US several years ago, they are so business unfriendly. I would never start a business there.

Elitists look at individuals and try to decide how they should live and condescendingly believe they know what is best for other people. Let people live their own lives, stop being so elitist and condescending.

[Elwar]

Free market doesn't work for labour market as some participant have needs they must fullfill.

Free market works best in the labor force. Being free is the best way forward for exchanging your service for fair compensation. It is when outside forces pervert the relationship between employee and employer that the fairness is destroyed.

[Lethn]

$100/hour? Obviously not

Why not? What would be the worst that could happen?

Hyperinflation and a Great Depression following the collapse of the country and its currency since they'd have to devalue the currency in order to pay for it, while minimum wages certainly alone won't be responsible ( we have minimum wage in the UK ) many measures like it are the cause because people simply refuse to pay directly for it, especially the very people who champion things like the minimum wage.

[niothor]

Why should there be a minimum wage in the first place?

To stop employers exploiting their employees and paying them peanuts.

The no minimum wage plan worked in Germany for years with less problems that in country where the minimum wage just drove people to work without papers and led to lots of abuse.

[Elwar]

A cheap security service to protect yourself from such crimes would be more efficient for people initiating force against you.

Yeah, but if I have more money than you, I can afford the 'deluxe' security service with better weapons and more employees - they can easily defeat your security service.

Your family will chip in to help afford and even better service? Fine, in addition to my family's wealth, I will call in favours from my wealthy friends and allies to raise a 'security service' the likes of which the world has never known.

Congratulations, you just reinvented medieval Europe.

Medieval Europe did not have bitcoins and crowdfunding.


Works well in Detroit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqlVL26jrCA

[niothor]

Yes, just consider what would happen to prices if wages of people working in labor-intensive and service fields would increase x10.

People losing their jobs, automation and robots for as many jobs as possible, even more jobs going overseas.

Welcome to McDonalds, may I take your order:

That looks kind of nice , at least it is more accurate that one worker i ran into which took 5 minute to get my order , asking me twice about everything.
Also , the main transport company in my city has two times more ticket sellers than drivers. At this point shouldn't people ask themselves if those jobs are really needed?

[Elwar]

I have traveled in Australia where the minimum wage is around $17. Everything was very expensive and services that are common in other countries do not exist (most restaurants do not have waiters/waitresses, you do much of the work yourself, young people having a hard time getting jobs, most small businesses run by the owner's family, etc.)

[hilariousandco]

Shall we abolish punishment for rape and murder as well and let people settle their differences the good old fashion way?

A cheap security service to protect yourself from such crimes would be more efficient for people initiating force against you.

Great, so we now have private mafias and personal armies roaming around who would be ten times worse than the police without no restrictions/laws in place to keep them in check. So I guess you're probably one of these people who wants a police and government and wants to live under the threat of a gun, but just as long as we can call them something else whilst having the choice to choose whether to pay them or not? I've had these discussions several times on here and they go nowhere, but I'll entertain your fantasy if you wish.

And for those that don't have a choice? What's the option? I guess they'll have the right to choose to be homeless and starve to death, right?

And that's a very snobby and elitist/condescending thing to say.

If you decide not to choose you still have made a choice. This is a huge world. You can work anywhere, there are jobs all over. Who are these people with no choice?

Go where the jobs are. Go where you can live on whatever wage is paid. I left the US several years ago, they are so business unfriendly. I would never start a business there.

Elitists look at individuals and try to decide how they should live and condescendingly believe they know what is best for other people. Let people live their own lives, stop being so elitist and condescending.

Except there are not jobs all over and some people don't have the means to travel the world to go where they can. There are never enough jobs for everyone so there's always people that get left out, but fuck the little people, right? Without minimum wage laws set etc, many places that hired unskilled workers would completely exploit everyone they could. Illegal immigrants would flock to all these employers who pay peanuts forcing everyone else out of a job, and then even more people who are willing to work for a little bit less would then force them out a job and the cycle continues until people are practically working for free.

[Kluge]

Minimum wage laws are only enforceable to a certain extent. Pushed too far, Walmart will eventually just hire "John Doe Cash Handling Services (DBA)" instead of John Doe and bypass the enormous mountain of employee regulations. -And I think that's great, because employee contracts are much more like wage slavery than the much more explicit and meaningful contracts for independent contractors, where your boss, Four-Fingered Jimmy, can't immediately fire you because you told him to go eat dog shit after he asked you to clean out the toilets (unless that's explicitly part of your contract).

[Elwar]

whilst having the choice to choose

Having the right to choose things as opposed to being forced...crazy idea huh? (hint: otherwise known as freedom)

Except there are not jobs all over and some people don't have the means to travel the world to go where they can.

Like those rich Mexicans that fight to get to the US to get a below minimum wage job? Here in Afghanistan many Pakistanis are shipped in to work getting paid around $5 per day. They come here and make those sacrifices for such high paying jobs. I have stopped working in the US because of what it has become and have so many more options with such a large world.


But I do know that a higher minimum wage and other socialist programs will help speed up the end of the US economy and its eventual reboot. I will ride this out from across the pond, keeping my money in bitcoins and hopefully help to rebuild afterwards if people learn their lesson. Or just leave it as just the place I grew up.

[niothor]

Except there are not jobs all over and some people don't have the means to travel the world to go where they can. There are never enough jobs for everyone so there's always people that get left out, but fuck the little people, right? Without minimum wage laws set etc, many places that hired unskilled workers would completely exploit everyone they could. Illegal immigrants would flock to all these employers who pay peanuts forcing everyone else out of a job, and then even more people who are willing to work for a little bit less would then force them out a job and the cycle continues until people are practically working for free.

So , this is what happened in Germany?
I think it is not even close to your predicament

[bryant.coleman]

$100 per hour? Already the manufacturing sector in the US is in serious decline, due to the import of cheaper goods from countries such as China. Any such move to raise the minimum wage will finish off the industry once and for all.

[beetcoin]

Shall we abolish punishment for rape and murder as well and let people settle their differences the good old fashion way?

A cheap security service to protect yourself from such crimes would be more efficient for people initiating force against you.

Great, so we now have private mafias and personal armies roaming around who would be ten times worse than the police without no restrictions/laws in place to keep them in check. So I guess you're probably one of these people who wants a police and government and wants to live under the threat of a gun, but just as long as we can call them something else whilst having the choice to choose whether to pay them or not? I've had these discussions several times on here and they go nowhere, but I'll entertain your fantasy if you wish.

And for those that don't have a choice? What's the option? I guess they'll have the right to choose to be homeless and starve to death, right?

And that's a very snobby and elitist/condescending thing to say.

If you decide not to choose you still have made a choice. This is a huge world. You can work anywhere, there are jobs all over. Who are these people with no choice?

Go where the jobs are. Go where you can live on whatever wage is paid. I left the US several years ago, they are so business unfriendly. I would never start a business there.

Elitists look at individuals and try to decide how they should live and condescendingly believe they know what is best for other people. Let people live their own lives, stop being so elitist and condescending.

Except there are not jobs all over and some people don't have the means to travel the world to go where they can. There are never enough jobs for everyone so there's always people that get left out, but fuck the little people, right? Without minimum wage laws set etc, many places that hired unskilled workers would completely exploit everyone they could. Illegal immigrants would flock to all these employers who pay peanuts forcing everyone else out of a job, and then even more people who are willing to work for a little bit less would then force them out a job and the cycle continues until people are practically working for free.

m8, you can't win an argument against ancaps. they want complete hands-off, even if it means the bad guys can get control of the bureaucracy.

as it currently is in the U.S., the middle class is significantly underrepresented by our "government." continuing to mute the voice of the middle class is not going to help anything at all, because the wealthy will just continue buying out washington to get more money, power, and influence.