Electricity bill and when do you stop mining?

[bulanula]

If I had to pay 0.50 Euro I would pay it to save the enviroment. You guys in the US dont care about that yet, but you will do so in the future (or you will have to). Look how you live, look what you eat, look what cars you drive, etc. In 2022 we will be the ones who laughs about you, when you live in a country with 104 (2011) nuclear power stations ... I wouldn't live there. There is something that counts more then money.

Greetz
NetworkerZ

Which has nothing to do with nothing.

1) PV solar isn't that great for the environment.  It is made from a soup of highly toxic chemical and today 65% of it is made in ... China.  Yup those international bastions of clean manufacturing.

2) I would rather had 500 nuclear reactors than millions of acres of high cost PV panels.

3) Even if you are right it has absolutely nothing to do w/ the post you responded to which was about the ECONOMICS of PV SOLAR.

I have to agree with D&T here.

Nuclear is the way to go whether you like it or now. It is much better than anything available to us right now ( maybe except hydro ).

Low pollution and cheap prices FTW. Solar panels are a fail technology and always will be just like SSDs ( until the tech properly matures and they become viable ).

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[Unacceptable]

Everyone who lives in Cali tells me it's 78 and sunny every day, all the time.  Why isn't that entire state covered in solar cells?

B/c solar will NEVER work, at least not now.
Every solar project has been subsidized heavily by Gov. And even so, they still go bankrupt.

Say thanks to the petroleum lobbyists  

Here in sunny south Fla,I pay .11 k/h & only 1 solar farm in Arcadia,Fla.WTF???

[max in montreal]

2) I would rather had 500 nuclear reactors than millions of acres of high cost PV panels.

Wow, if it was up to me I would get rid of all of them...

[chungenhung]

This is what the nuclear power business wants you to believe. Look at Germany, it works very well ...

Greetz
NetworkerZ

Then you are way over your head.
Look at how much $$ the German gov't subsidize it.
After so much money poured in by the gov, solar power still cost you over 0.25 euro

[chungenhung]

If I had to pay 0.50 Euro I would pay it to save the enviroment. You guys in the US dont care about that yet, but you will do so in the future (or you will have to). Look how you live, look what you eat, look what cars you drive, etc. In 2022 we will be the ones who laughs about you, when you live in a country with 104 (2011) nuclear power stations ... I wouldn't live there. There is something that counts more then money.

Greetz
NetworkerZ

Which has nothing to do with nothing.

1) PV solar isn't that great for the environment.  It is made from a soup of highly toxic chemical and today 65% of it is made in ... China.  Yup those international bastions of clean manufacturing.

2) I would rather had 500 nuclear reactors than millions of acres of high cost PV panels.

3) Even if you are right it has absolutely nothing to do w/ the post you responded to which was about the ECONOMICS of PV SOLAR.

Totally agree.
I first thought solar is the way to go, but after so much research..... i concluded..... solar will never work. The panels are not efficient, and we need batteries that are 100x more capable than today's batteries.

[chungenhung]

2) I would rather had 500 nuclear reactors than millions of acres of high cost PV panels.

Wow, if it was up to me I would get rid of all of them...

then you wouldn't be able to hash your coins.

[max in montreal]

In  quebec our elctricity is  made with water.

[Brunic]

In  quebec our elctricity is  made with water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentilly_Nuclear_Generating_Station

Sorry, he meant 94.8% is made with water.  

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Énergie_au_Québec#.C3.89lectricit.C3.A9
(no english version for the data)

[antirack]

$0.20 kWh (Hong Kong)
in China Mainland, just across the border it's $0.11 kWh
I didn't even start mining yet so no idea when I will stop.

In my home country Austria (I work and live overseas) it's €0.2079 kWh, and people believe their energy is hydro ecause they have lots of mountains and rivers. If they'd bother to read the small print of their monthly energy bill, they'd actually see that only a third is hydro and lots of energy is imported.

How the Germans can decide to do without Nuclear power by 2022 is beyond my understanding. I guess they just had to give the people what they wanted to hear because they have enough problems on their hand already with the bad economy etc.

I will have a bag of popcorn from far away to see how that plays out. My bet is that they will reverse course or delay this for a few decades and then reverse course. Or just shut them all down and rely in imported (nuclear or fossil) power which doesn't really do any good.

In Austria at least, some studies have concluded that hydro won't be enough.

[someone703]

It's $0.11 per kWh here in VA.

Bought one of those kill a watt things to see how much power my PC draws but I still don't have any good mining GPUs to calculate with yet... I've been an nVidia guy but hoping to find some 5870's at some point.

[The-Real-Link]

$0.06 here in Michigan at home.  At the office though it's rolled into the utility payment so "free".

[max in montreal]

En 2009, l'électricité produite par la fission nucléaire ne constituait que 2,35 % de tous les approvisionnements d'Hydro-Québec

[The-Real-Link]

  Hmm true.  I'd have to take a look at the bill to see just how many extra charges there are .

[jjshabadoo]

Those who are opposed to nuclear need to do their research, it is the cleanest and most efficient power generation BY FAR. Forget all your old assumptions about waste, etc.

NEW nuclear plants are extremely safe and extremely efficient. I hope the US gets off their asses and hands some of the bribes back to the oil and gas industries and starts building reactors by the dozens.

Oh and UPGRADE THE DAMN POWER GRID! we lose more there than anywhere else.

Nonetheless, deregulated electricity is a joke, capitalism NEVER works when people HAVE to consume a product. It doesn't allow for proper interplay of supply and demand which is necessary to a truly free  market.

rant over. The US is just a stupid greedy nouveau rich kid most of the time. Doesn't know what it has or how to use it.

[antares]

I have to pay 0.25 € (about 0.3285 $), that's expensive but it's 100% eco-power, so it's OK.

Greetz
NetworkerZ

What do you mean by eco-power?
0.25 euro is 0.25 euro

he's giving lots of power to the power company, so his nuclear energy proportion goes down to 80%. at least that is what they are selling as eco-power here in germany.

Everyone who lives in Cali tells me it's 78 and sunny every day, all the time.  Why isn't that entire state covered in solar cells?

last time I was to LA I froze the entire night. F***king cold in CA!

[DeathAndTaxes]

he's giving lots of power to the power company, so his nuclear energy proportion goes down to 80%. at least that is what they are selling as eco-power here in germany.

You know what is even funnier.  Germany imports power from France ... produced by nuclear reactors.  France has lowest electrical costs in Europe, receives hundreds of millions a year in revenue by electrical exports and all the non-nuclear nations use nuclear power.

Funny thing is some of France nuclear reactors are right on the border so they are closer to the residents who vote against nuclear power (but still use it) than French citizens. 

[antares]

I know. If the nuclear plant in Fessenheim explodes(one of those french-maintained, or shall I say unmaintained reactors that is likely to produce a disaster soon), I wont even feel pain about that.

My opinion is that cheap energy is a vital key to economic prosperity. I don't agree with all those environment nazis around here, I say use your PV panels if you like, but dont let me pay for it.

Oh, btw, I'm also in with the shut down our nuclear plants people. But I see it from another point of view. IMHO we NEED to put those old plants off the grid, since they are old, inefficient and insecure. Instead germany should put it's money into NEW, SAFE, EFFICIENT nuclear plants, instead of fighting some battle for people that smoke way too much weed and oppose everything they dont understand.

Little sidenote edit... do you know why the french plants are that close to the german border? When they built those things, those frog-eaters made wind calculations. The plants have been built with the intention that if any of them has a nuclear accident(from radioactivity being released into the air to *BOOM*) the fallout hits germany instead of france. Those rags are good neighbours, arent they?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Oh, btw, I'm also in with the shut down our nuclear plants people. But I see it from another point of view. IMHO we NEED to put those old plants off the grid, since they are old, inefficient and insecure. Instead germany should put it's money into NEW, SAFE, EFFICIENT nuclear plants, instead of fighting some battle for people that smoke way too much weed and oppose everything they dont understand.

I agree.  We have same problem in the US.  We really do need to shut down reactors but it is really only viable if you replace it with more nuclear unless the goal is to take a giant step backwards and burn even more fossil fuels.

It has taken Germany 11 years and massive subsidies (wealth transfer) to acheive 18 TWh of solar generation.   In the US the "newest" (aka late 1970s technology) reactors acheive 95% capacity factor (produces 95% of theoretical output annually).

18 TWh * 1000 / 24 / 365 / 0.95 = ~ 2GH.  A pair of modern Gen III+ nuclear reactors (the kind China is building 20 a year) would produce more power per year than 11 years of subsidies in solar power has produced.

Alternatively, if the US tried to do what Germany did w/ solar power to replace nuclear power, 11 years from now we could take 2 (out of 204) nuclear reactors off line.  Most people have no concept of how much power it takes to keep us in the modern world.

Forget cost most people simply don't have enough roof for more than 4 or 5 KW.  5 KW getting an avg of 5 hours of peak sunlight per day can keep a single 1 KW rig running 24/7/365.  What is someone going to do if they need 10 rigs or 20?  Rent 20 roofs? That is just Bitcoin mining.  Now think about an aluminum smelting plant, auto assembly plant, or google datacenter.

[max in montreal]

maybe we would be better off if we lowered our consumption of electricity in general...in quebec, if you have an old fridge, th electric company will give you 60$ if you throw it away. 60$ to throw your old frigde away, they will come and pick it up.

just because we can pay for the electricity/gas/water does  not mean we should be wasting it.

I have 2 young girls and in each of their rooms they have little girly lamps...my girlfriend insists on keeping them on, even during the day because it makes the rooms look nice...but no one is home...

[antares]

maybe we would be better off if we lowered our consumption of electricity in general...in quebec, if you have an old fridge, th electric company will give you 60$ if you throw it away. 60$ to throw your old frigde away, they will come and pick it up.

just because we can pay for the electricity/gas/water does  not mean we should be wasting it.

I have 2 young girls and in each of their rooms they have little girly lamps...my girlfriend insists on keeping them on, even during the day because it makes the rooms look nice...but no one is home...

dude, you are in the wrong forum. bitcointalk.org is probably the only forum in the world where wasting massive amounts of energy is promoted.
Besides that, I cannot replace my fridge, it comes with the rental contract(embedded into the kitchen). But however, I'm putting out 2 kilowatts in mining energy, and an upgrade to 5 is coming(have to see how to get those 16A failsafes replaced with 25A ones). do you really think I care about a light or something?

not to mention that our socialist government is now telling us that we are forbidden to use fucking edison light bulbs, but have to use those energy saving crap ones that put out dirty light and need 30 minutes to reach their final brightness.

I mean, if you want to save energy, that is fine with me and it's a noble concept, but it cannot be that the government tells me how much energy I may use and what I may use it for. this is not soviet russia(yet)

Besides that, I have really considered installing solar panels over here, since electric companies have to pay you off for PV generated electricity that you use yourself, which makes mining cheaper than when I buy the cheapest electricity on the market. Not to mention that my entire flat now has 0.0$ cost for heating the place.