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Author Topic: On the Solidcoin Economic Changes  (Read 6885 times)
cunicula
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January 28, 2012, 02:01:35 AM
 #21

(channelling my inner CoinHunter):

It is SIMPLE ECONOMICS, people!

price = function(supply,demand)

So to create more demand, just fix the price and the supply!  Easy-peasy!

(ok, done, back to reality)


Coinhunter's basic premises are correct in Gavin's (facetious) outline, but the problems he faces aren't touched on.

If he has a price of $0.02 then, he needs to commit to destroy 49 out of every 50 solidcoins to get to dollar parity. So far so good, easy-peasy.

The non-Easy-peasy parts are:

1) He can't commit to do anything because no one trusts him. He can reduce the block reward to zero and everyone will expect him to increase it again if price rises. Given this expectation, there is no reason to anticipate that price will rise due to his rule change.

2) There are already lots of solidcoins out there, so there is no way solidcoin will reach dollar parity given current demand even if the block reward is credibly and permanently reduced to zero.


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January 28, 2012, 02:58:18 AM
 #22

Quote from: CoinHunter
> You're only doing this to make your own SolidCoin investment higher.
If this was true we would be a pyramid scheme like Bitcoin.

Heh, whenever I see ReallySoiled's avatar on solidcoin forums (Bratt Pitt), all I can think of is Ocean's Eleven.

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January 28, 2012, 08:30:18 AM
 #23

Looks like a cross between Brad Pitt and George Michael.
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January 28, 2012, 06:30:05 PM
 #24

Another really weird thing about this: Coinhunter has been claiming he can't make fiat changes to the currency and that we should all "read the code" to see why.

Then he makes a fiat change to the currency.

Artforz nailed it earlier in the thread. "Solidcoin has always been at war with Eurasia."

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January 28, 2012, 08:13:49 PM
 #25


ScamCoin says they have "solved the 51% problem" when in reality they have merely created a "0.00001% problem".


That is an unfair characterization of Solidcoin. There is no way there are that many solidcoin users. It is more like a 0.1% problem.  Grin

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January 29, 2012, 12:34:28 AM
 #26

I wonder how Soidcoin is doing?I haven't been able to keep up with the latest news due to lots of work (job wise/academic).I used to be a miner for SC (very briefly due to poor value of each SC but were easy to get lots of.).I ended up trading SC for BTC as I made more BTC that way than mining BTC directly but thanks to RealSolids changes I can no longer work with that currency (I don't care about trust in SC,I just wanna profit whereas I see BTC as a viable idea)

Can't believe that SC went down the drain so fast.I wonder what an SC is valued at to BTC and USD?

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January 29, 2012, 04:32:39 AM
 #27

For some reason this thread is locked: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=61372.0

But I would like to point out that the vast majority of miners will stop mining when the price drops to $0.50, allowing an easy 51% attack.

Miners don't determine the price and a lack of inflation doesn't guarantee a high price.

It's locked because CoinHunter knows people will flame the hell out of his new Solidcoin.

"You're only doing this to make your own SolidCoin investment higher.
If this was true we would be a pyramid scheme like Bitcoin .  Firstly the more people that mine the more coins that are produced, this is the opposite of a pyramid scheme, it basically is democracy relating to currency creation. In regards to the existing 2.7 million coins and the average cost only being 1c to create, that is part of the journey that is establishing a working currency. If we didn't have 2.7 million coins our currency would stagnate and not be very liquid. Either way early adopters and businesses do more than later adopters so this is their reward for their work."  ~ CoinHunter


No thanks.

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January 30, 2012, 05:51:55 AM
 #28

i'm suspicious he does this because someone is close being a trusted node, and unwilling to give up the sole power in the currency.

hmm.


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January 30, 2012, 06:14:14 AM
 #29

i'm suspicious he does this because someone is close being a trusted node, and unwilling to give up the sole power in the currency.

hmm.

No, the biggest reasons were businesses I spoke to wanted a stable value for the currency, that's what basing it on kilowatt hours attempts to do. Businesses also said they preferred if a SolidCoin was worth about $1 so that their prices could be similar across the board instead of "unknown" things like 500 microsoft points. That said because there's 2+ million SolidCoins don't expect the price to be $1+ overnight, it will take some time, basically it depends on which coins hit the market and the average cost to produce + some other variables.

The largest account holder I'm aware of has about 120K, one of the exchanges has a bit more than that in their "use" wallet. If someone did have close to a million they are hiding it rather well.


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January 30, 2012, 02:06:37 PM
 #30

This could be a revival of SC.If so I'd look forward to it so I can have a go at trading other P2P currencies (SC) as well as BTC as it seems there's a lot more profit for me to be had by trading multiple currencies.I do wish that SC can help me setup shop like BTC did so I can trade between currencies without issue.

Lets see how SCs changes work out in the mid term.

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January 30, 2012, 04:34:45 PM
 #31

This could be a revival of SC.If so I'd look forward to it so I can have a go at trading other P2P currencies (SC) as well as BTC as it seems there's a lot more profit for me to be had by trading multiple currencies.I do wish that SC can help me setup shop like BTC did so I can trade between currencies without issue.

Lets see how SCs changes work out in the mid term.

It will be the death of SC2.  As soon as the currency is worth something it will be shredded by more talented programmers who can find security holes in the trusted node system, or by a simpler sybil attack.

The reason all my money is in LTC is because the system is proven robust as it does not strongly deviate from the original protocol -- with SC2, you're trusting a single person's programming skills with your money.  The fact that the trusted node system has already been attacked successfully should be an ominous sign to anyone who wants to invest their money into SC2.  I think a lot of people in the end are going to get shafted and one person is going to walk away with a lot of everyone else's cash.

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January 30, 2012, 07:02:13 PM
 #32

This could be a revival of SC.If so I'd look forward to it so I can have a go at trading other P2P currencies (SC) as well as BTC as it seems there's a lot more profit for me to be had by trading multiple currencies.I do wish that SC can help me setup shop like BTC did so I can trade between currencies without issue.

Lets see how SCs changes work out in the mid term.
I think a lot of people in the end are going to get shafted and one person is going to walk away with a lot of everyone else's cash.
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January 30, 2012, 11:12:53 PM
 #33

It will be the death of SC2.  As soon as the currency is worth something it will be shredded by more talented programmers who can find security holes in the trusted node system, or by a simpler sybil attack.

You do know SolidCoin has many more nodes than Litecoin right? Sybil attack is much easier on Litecoin. Either way, the top end SC guys are aware of the risks and have a "backbone" of nodes which will always connect to each other. Are Litecoin developers aware ? It took them 2 days to even notice their network was being spammed. Sounds real proven.


The reason all my money is in LTC is because the system is proven robust as it does not strongly deviate from the original protocol -- with SC2, you're trusting a single person's programming skills with your money.  The fact that the trusted node system has already been attacked successfully should be an ominous sign to anyone who wants to invest their money into SC2.  I think a lot of people in the end are going to get shafted and one person is going to walk away with a lot of everyone else's cash.

Well we have 4 developers now so unfortunately we can't just blame me for all the good (or bad) things Tongue . SolidCoin is the most "Wanting to be attacked" chain out there and has survived everything people have thrown at it. Luke-Jr, artforz, large botnets. Maybe we need satoshi to hit it hard? Just get Gavin to give him a call.

All existing SC owners prior to the change can now bail out at a price which is 5 times higher than a week ago. If they want to bail they can do so at a nice profit.

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January 30, 2012, 11:25:19 PM
 #34


All existing SC owners prior to the change can now bail out at a price which is 5 times higher than a week ago. If they want to bail they can do so at a nice profit.

pump and dump.

pretty much like all other alts.


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January 31, 2012, 12:43:13 AM
 #35

All existing SC owners prior to the change can now bail out at a price which is 5 times higher than a week ago. If they want to bail they can do so at a nice profit.
And it's what, 10 times, 100 times harder to mine (I've heard both .7 sc per block and .07 sc per block, so I'm not sure the correct figure)? Seems like the change only benefited early adapters. But then, that was probably the point to the chain all along.

Edit: Looks like it's about .08 per block, plus a few tx fees, let's say it's .1 sc per block, down from about 7 sc per block. Difficulty goes up 70x, price goes up 5x. I expect network hashrate to plummet once miners figure out they can't get anything anymore from mining. Good thing SC is designed for plummeting hashrate. In a couple weeks it's going to just be the enforcer nodes hashing away.

Buy & Hold
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January 31, 2012, 01:54:39 AM
 #36

All existing SC owners prior to the change can now bail out at a price which is 5 times higher than a week ago. If they want to bail they can do so at a nice profit.
And it's what, 10 times, 100 times harder to mine (I've heard both .7 sc per block and .07 sc per block, so I'm not sure the correct figure)? Seems like the change only benefited early adapters. But then, that was probably the point to the chain all along.

Edit: Looks like it's about .08 per block, plus a few tx fees, let's say it's .1 sc per block, down from about 7 sc per block. Difficulty goes up 70x, price goes up 5x. I expect network hashrate to plummet once miners figure out they can't get anything anymore from mining. Good thing SC is designed for plummeting hashrate. In a couple weeks it's going to just be the enforcer nodes hashing away.

I guess that's why SolidCoin is so "Lucky" to be protected against mining attacks eh?

We now aren't flooding the economy with coins. Like you said, I personally don't think price will increase 70x immediately, because it was dropping previously , which indicates too much mining for the amount of investors we had. That's what the change addresses.

It's our luxury with 51% protection that we can have a coin flow based on actual investment and development instead of "heres a fixed coin rate, let the value fluctuate like a wild beast". If you want a currency to work you can't have massive value fluctuations in my opinion. I guess we'll see how this goes over the coming months.

I suspect few people here have actually tried to argue Bitcoins to a business because if you did they would ask things like "What are they worth?" and the answer you give is "depends, $2 a month ago, $5 now, 6 months ago it was $30, 1 year ago it was $1" . We had the same problem with SolidCoin so we are fixing it. Personally I don't think Bitcoin is a currency and it never will be due to issues like this. But it could continue as some sort of "commodity" for a little while longer.

And I think you'll find very few of our investors are going "short solidcoin" we've been at this for 7 months and we want a working, secure currency. Most of the key people aren't profit motivated, we are motivated to get rid of the shitty systems in place like banks and governments having their fingers in each pie. That said I'm sure there are plenty of people in the SC community which are 100% profit driven, that's life I guess.

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January 31, 2012, 02:34:33 AM
 #37

So when can we expect V3 of SpongyCoin?

I say it will take a while for most of the non-cultists to stop mining.

Anyone want to future bet what the version will be by the 1 year mark?

Ubuntu Desktop x64 -  HD5850 Reference - 400Mh/s w/ cgminer  @ 975C/325M/1.175V - 11.6/2.1 SDK
Donate if you find this helpful: 1NimouHg2acbXNfMt5waJ7ohKs2TtYHePy
PatrickHarnett
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January 31, 2012, 02:57:19 AM
 #38

Fascinating

So the cost of production is going to equal it's price.  Then, the consumer surplus will tend to (price - cost) => zero. 

From an economics point of view, I thought the previous change from 32 to 5 with bonuses was "interesting" and it had all died down a bit.  This one is micro-cosmic monetary policy experiment worth watching.

Wonder if I can sell my 70 virgin SC1.0 coins as collectibles yet?
cunicula
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January 31, 2012, 03:07:33 AM
 #39

Fascinating

So the cost of production is going to equal it's price.  Then, the consumer surplus will tend to (price - cost) => zero. 

From an economics point of view, I thought the previous change from 32 to 5 with bonuses was "interesting" and it had all died down a bit.  This one is micro-cosmic monetary policy experiment worth watching.

Wonder if I can sell my 70 virgin SC1.0 coins as collectibles yet?

Idiot.
Your grade = F.
You know nothing.
You are mis-educating the other idiots.
This only intensifies the already intolerable level of idiocy here.

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PatrickHarnett
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January 31, 2012, 03:11:56 AM
 #40

Fascinating

So the cost of production is going to equal it's price.  Then, the consumer surplus will tend to (price - cost) => zero.  

From an economics point of view, I thought the previous change from 32 to 5 with bonuses was "interesting" and it had all died down a bit.  This one is micro-cosmic monetary policy experiment worth watching.

Wonder if I can sell my 70 virgin SC1.0 coins as collectibles yet?

Idiot.
Your grade = F.
You know nothing.
You are mis-educating the other idiots.
This only intensifies the already intolerable level of idiocy here.

yes, what a great response

looking at your post history you are not adding anything of value - why did you bother trolling here?
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