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Author Topic: [Blacklist] of unreliable, 'taint proclaiming' Bitcoin services / exchanges  (Read 2107 times)
dkbit98
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August 08, 2022, 05:46:00 PM
Merited by tadamichi (1)
 #181

That's true for everything. Bitcoin, technology, humans in general need improvement and change. Don't understand how private blockchains differ.
Yes, but Bitcoin base protocol didn't change that much since the beginning, compared to all other shitcoins that change in very drastic way.

It didn't have optional privacy (which is pleonasm, privacy is always optional), because there weren't chain analysis scumbags to begin with. Once it appeared to be apparent that there's no privacy with or without Coin Control, proposals such as CoinJoin, Lightning, mixers, Taproot were made.
Privacy is obviously not optional for privacy based applications, and it was realistic prediction that Bitcoin would be target of various government agencies in future.
Instead of using all the different hoops, different wallets, mixers, coinjoins, etc I would much more prefer to use private transactions by default.

Unpopular opinion: There's already sufficient privacy, especially in Layer 2 solutions which are believed to be used the most in the future.
Fact is there isn't, and it's not easily usable by majority of people.
You should understand that most of the people today are brainwashed zombies and they can only use easy solutions for privacy (if they care about that at all).
Tell the average crypto guy to use layer 2 for privacy and he won't have a clue what you are talking about.

But the main difference is of course that this taint is only used to catch the real bad guy, and not to blame anyone who received the money later on.
It's only used to catch small fish criminals, meanwhile you have big fishes doing what they do without any issues.
Older I am more I think that all this is just one big government circus show for the masses.

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BlackHatCoiner
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August 08, 2022, 06:11:18 PM
 #182

Yes, but Bitcoin base protocol didn't change that much since the beginning, compared to all other shitcoins that change in very drastic way.
Sounds good.

Privacy is obviously not optional for privacy based applications
Privacy is optional in the sense that you can selectively reveal your activity. I mean, nobody (protocols included) can force you to remain private; it's something you take responsibility upon.

Instead of using all the different hoops, different wallets, mixers, coinjoins, etc I would much more prefer to use private transactions by default.
Me too. But, apparently, most do care trading off scalability and core changes in the protocol for privacy by default.

Tell the average crypto guy to use layer 2 for privacy and he won't have a clue what you are talking about.
As long as those who're interested in both learning and preserving their privacy are able to setup a node, I'm fine. That's what it takes to have nearly-zero transaction costs in an instant and private fashion.

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August 09, 2022, 08:01:29 PM
Merited by n0nce (1)
 #183

Exactly, but this was slow gradual process and they offered benefits and incentives to make people switch using mostly digital fiat money.
As with all things privacy related. People are happy to let Amazon and Google record every single word that is spoken inside their house, provided it means they can play a song without having to press like 3 buttons on their phone. They will of course be happy to transition away from cash if it means some 1% reward on their spending.

People have always been happy to trade their privacy for the slightest convenience. This is why we need both education as well as privacy enforcement at the protocol level.

But the main difference is of course that this taint is only used to catch the real bad guy, and not to blame anyone who received the money later on.
Which everyone seems to understand without a second though when it comes to fiat, but for some reason when it comes to bitcoin people start defending the ridiculous privacy invasion and stealing of coins which is practiced by centralized exchanges. I've never understood why, other than they just mindlessly by in to the government propaganda without question.

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August 10, 2022, 02:27:52 PM
 #184

People have always been happy to trade their privacy for the slightest convenience. This is why we need both education as well as privacy enforcement at the protocol level.
Yes, until you end up in a system like you have in China, paying with your face biometrics, can't move anywhere without some silly digital ID, can't leave China even if you want.
Everything is tracked and controlled, so you end up with lot's of people committing suicide jumping out of windows because they can't live like this anymore.
This scenario is not so far from happening in other parts of the world, and it happen gradually in China.


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August 10, 2022, 03:21:46 PM
Merited by tadamichi (1)
 #185

This scenario is not so far from happening in other parts of the world
This scenario did happen during the pandemic, and I'm sure this tyrannic behavior is here to stay, globally.

In my country, certain employees of the private and public sector were forced to do the vaccine[1] and reveal the corresponded certificate whenever they entered a closed room. Later, it was compulsory to do the same for open places, like cafeterias. Then, the elders were given the choices to either do the vaccine or pay a €100 fine for each month they weren't "prudent".

I presume next up is repealing of cash, introduction of social credit score, reduction of non-green energy usage, transition from actual reality to virtual reality etc., all of which happen at the expense of our liberty.

[1] https://www.kodiko.gr/nomothesia/document/737234/nomos-4820-2021 (Law 4820/2021)

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August 10, 2022, 03:41:44 PM
 #186

People have always been happy to trade their privacy for the slightest convenience. This is why we need both education as well as privacy enforcement at the protocol level.
Yes, until you end up in a system like you have in China, paying with your face biometrics, can't move anywhere without some silly digital ID, can't leave China even if you want.
Everything is tracked and controlled, so you end up with lot's of people committing suicide jumping out of windows because they can't live like this anymore.
This scenario is not so far from happening in other parts of the world, and it happen gradually in China.


*waits for franky to explain us, how absolute compliance is true freedom, that mass surveillance doesn’t apply to conformists and that victims of tyranny just didn’t read the guidelines well enough and should take their tinfoil hats off.*

I’ll probably never understand how people stay so ignorant about these issues, maybe they fall for the illusion that it can never hit them individually, until it happens.

9BDB B925 329A C034 - Learn PGP, if you havent already. Fight coin taint and blacklisting.
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August 10, 2022, 04:22:54 PM
 #187

Yes, until you end up in a system like you have in China, paying with your face biometrics, can't move anywhere without some silly digital ID, can't leave China even if you want.
I mean, in the West already all your movements are tracked by the handy GPS device that 99% of the population carry with them at all times, and all your purchases are tracked through your debit/credit cards, online accounts, store cards, and so on. But as above, people get some tiny convenience and so are willing to pay the price.

I’ll probably never understand how people stay so ignorant about these issues, maybe they fall for the illusion that it can never hit them individually, until it happens.
Perhaps they think that by simping for the government then the government might leave them alone. Roll Eyes

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August 10, 2022, 05:20:15 PM
Merited by dkbit98 (1), BlackHatCoiner (1)
 #188

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_road_to_hell_is_paved_with_good_intentions

^ Keep this phrase in your mind! It's very, very relevant these days.

I'm not saying all socialists/communists are bad guys, some are just idealists (useful idiots, I would say) who envision a utopia (more like a sci-fi dystopia/techno-feudalism according to Great Reset folks)...

Way upper in the hierarchy there are bad guys (Klaus Schwab and whatnot): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad

Be careful what you wish for... there might be unintended negative consequences!

I’ll probably never understand how people stay so ignorant about these issues, maybe they fall for the illusion that it can never hit them individually, until it happens.
Modern people are like cute little dogs (tamed animals). Totally harmless.

Ancient people were more like wolves (untamed animals). Very dangerous.

Domestication is a thing on Homo Sapiens too...

And guess what? Tyrants love this process. Wink Who wants a revolution? Who wants to lose power?

Perhaps they think that by simping for the government then the government might leave them alone. Roll Eyes
OnlyFeds™ Grin
dkbit98
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August 11, 2022, 01:40:02 PM
 #189

I mean, in the West already all your movements are tracked by the handy GPS device that 99% of the population carry with them at all times, and all your purchases are tracked through your debit/credit cards, online accounts, store cards, and so on. But as above, people get some tiny convenience and so are willing to pay the price.
Yeah I know, but you can still opt-out for some things, you can use dumb phone, or install graphene os in android phone, and you can still use cash in many places.
Things in China are next level craziness, and there is no way you can opt-out or even escape their country if you don't like this changes.
Lot of Chinese people escaped to Vietnam and from there to other countries, but now they put extra guards and massive barb wires or borders like in concentration camps.
Not to mention that Bitcoin is fully banned in only few countries in the world and China is one of them, you can still use it but be ready to go in jail if they catch you.
So almost everything is ''tainted'' in China because their government say so.  Tongue

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August 14, 2022, 11:47:26 PM
 #190

I think it would be a good idea to have a wallet which warns you when you are about to transfer coin to an address owned by one of these taint-scam freaks. We should destroy their business model at the root and use their own tactic against them. I think every wallet should have them on their "blacklist".

The most prudent option would be to avoid centralization all together and never put your coins in a third party wallet, but people seem to really enjoy all the diverse altcoins which exchanges have to offer.

This is a people's war against the government. Lets not let them intimidate us with their lapdogs.

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LoyceV
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August 15, 2022, 06:57:28 AM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4), dkbit98 (1)
 #191

I think it would be a good idea to have a wallet which warns you when you are about to transfer coin to an address owned by one of these taint-scam freaks.
That won't work: there's no way to know who owns an unused Bitcoin address. And I don't think this is a feature that belongs in a wallet: a wallet should do what I tell it to do, without complaining.

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August 15, 2022, 07:11:12 AM
Last edit: August 15, 2022, 10:12:46 AM by BlackHatCoiner
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4)
 #192

I think it would be a good idea to have a wallet which warns you when you are about to transfer coin to an address owned by one of these taint-scam freaks.
Two things:
  • You can't know the owner of an unused address, as Loyce rightly points out.
  • You shouldn't, because that's like tainting taint supporters. We're not like them. We recognize each coin and address equal, regardless of where they come from.

The root of all evil is lack of education. You don't solve tainting with software. You solve it with reaction, and people won't react if they're not educated enough to acknowledge the benefits of doing this collectively.

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August 15, 2022, 09:42:54 AM
Last edit: August 15, 2022, 10:38:54 AM by o_e_l_e_o
Merited by cryptosize (1)
 #193

And I don't think this is a feature that belongs in a wallet: a wallet should do what I tell it to do, without complaining.
Agreed. As attractive as it might seem at first to "blacklist the blacklisters", then you just run in to the exact same problem again: Who determines what should go on our "good" blacklist? We simply loop full circle and end up back at square one, with a centralized entity deciding where we can and cannot send our coins. Just because it is a centralized entity we happen to agree with (for now!) is irrelevant. Giving anyone or any entity the power to enforce a blacklist is against the ethos of decentralization and self ownership.

We should destroy their business model at the root
The way to do this is to just stop using them. As I've said before, if every single customer of Coinbase withdrew all their funds tomorrow and stopped using their platform in a mass protest against taint, Coinbase would have changed their rules by tomorrow and would be lobbying governments and going to court to fight against privacy invasion and oppression by the end of the week. But since people continue to play by their made up rules and continue to hand over money to them, they don't care.

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August 15, 2022, 03:44:09 PM
 #194

I think it would be a good idea to have a wallet which warns you when you are about to transfer coin to an address owned by one of these taint-scam freaks. We should destroy their business model at the root and use their own tactic against them. I think every wallet should have them on their "blacklist".
It sounds to me that you want to create one more centralized taint blacklisting service, and you want to clean the mud with adding more mud on top.
There is no need for some special wallet alert when you know you are sending coins to wallet centralized exchanges is always a risk.
Simple solution is not to use services or exchanges that openly support this taint trend, and switch to Bisq and p2p trading.

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August 15, 2022, 10:55:12 PM
 #195

The root of all evil is lack of education. You don't solve tainting with software. You solve it with reaction, and people won't react if they're not educated enough to acknowledge the benefits of doing this collectively.
Regarding education...

The most prudent option would be to avoid centralization all together and never put your coins in a third party wallet, but people seem to really enjoy all the diverse altcoins which exchanges have to offer.
... and people using centralized services to buy altcoins - I think it's very important to reiterate that decentralized and / or trustless crypto exchanges do exist.

I just made a quick forum search and found this thread, but maybe there are other / better ones that collect decentralized exchanges.

Personally, I can recommend Bisq and Robosats, as well as https://boltz.exchange/.

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