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Author Topic: Just-Dice scam  (Read 3181 times)
dooglus
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May 20, 2014, 09:22:34 PM
 #21

My point was that if someone leaves out this huge potential flaw in the logic of their website in exchange for little to no (supposed) gain then it is incredibly suspicious.

But this isn't a flaw in logic at all.  It's a decision not to release personal information about JD customers to the public.

If I theoretically decided to run an online casino but not integrate any provable fairness at all and assure players that I will choose a random number from 0 to 10 on every bet in an honest manner, am I then a scammer despite the players having no concrete evidence showing that I am favoring one of them?

I don't see the relevance.  JD is provably fair.  Whether or not there are "fake" bets on the site is unrelated to whether the site plays fair with the "real" bets.

But to answer your question, "no".  You're not a scammer if you make a non-provably fair game.  Almost no fiat gambling site in the world is provably fair.  What makes you a scammer is if you are scamming people, not the absence of proof of the absence of scam.

My opinion is that dooglus is a scammer until proven otherwise, the fact is that there is a huge flaw which could potentially be exploited.

Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one.  You can think what you want.  Others might be tempted to share your opinion if you could present it in a way that makes sense to them.

If there's a flaw, please describe it and how it could be exploited?  What's the worse that could happen if I was some evil MySQL/PHP-fueled genius with a fake bet machine?  What's the doomsday scenario here?  You seem to be comparing JD to MtGox, but JD is provably solvent, and whether or not Gox had "fake trades" on their site wasn't related to their eventual demise.  So what gives?

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May 20, 2014, 09:23:55 PM
 #22

(will address doogluses long post in a second)
My point was that if someone leaves out this huge potential flaw in the logic of their website in exchange for little to no (supposed) gain then it is incredibly suspicious.

If I theoretically decided to run an online casino but not integrate any provable fairness at all and assure players that I will choose a random number from 0 to 10 on every bet in an honest manner, am I then a scammer despite the players having no concrete evidence showing that I am favoring one of them?

My opinion is that dooglus is a scammer until proven otherwise, the fact is that there is a huge flaw which could potentially be exploited.

I will not argue your logic, I will leave that up to Dooglus. All that I still want to say is: innocent until proven guilty, NOT the other way around.

I'm with you on this. I've followed Dooglus for a long time now and I haven't seen anything suspicious. We can all make up things and come up with stories as to why he's running a scam, but that's all they are.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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May 20, 2014, 09:27:21 PM
 #23


I have never played nor ever will play at just-dice, I won't invest either. We have free speech here and I feel as if the community needs people like me more than ever to shed some light on scams before shit hits the fan and everyone is bitching and moaning on the forums like post-Gox again.

Your insults are pointless, discredit my claims don't insult the messenger, plus thanks for re-wording exactly what I've told you and sending it back, I appreciate despite the fact that the way I've said it was more classy.

Me quoting your insults are meant to shed some light on the kind of degeneracy that looms those chats, not as a compliment, but take it however you will.

Clearly you haven't a fucking clue who I am.  Roll Eyes

If you can't take the degen heat. Stay out of the degen den.
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May 20, 2014, 09:37:12 PM
 #24

In the logs posted, the op strikes me as law enforcement trying to do blockchain analytics on large tx betters using this service as a honeypot.
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May 20, 2014, 09:41:12 PM
 #25

In the logs posted, the op strikes me as law enforcement trying to do blockchain analytics on large tx betters using this service as a honeypot.

I knew someone would bring it up, consider the latest openssl bug, now realize that chances are almost all authorities and/or organizations that would want to access this information already have access to it.

The only ones who cannot access it are private organizations and/or people like you or me.








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madmadmax
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May 20, 2014, 09:48:49 PM
 #26

But this isn't a flaw in logic at all.  It's a decision not to release personal information about JD customers to the public.

Is releasing your public key then considered a compromise on privacy? JD accounts are pseudoanonymous like Bitcoin itself, please help me distinguish the parallels.

I don't see the relevance.  JD is provably fair.  Whether or not there are "fake" bets on the site is unrelated to whether the site plays fair with the "real" bets.

But to answer your question, "no".  You're not a scammer if you make a non-provably fair game.  Almost no fiat gambling site in the world is provably fair.  What makes you a scammer is if you are scamming people, not the absence of proof of the absence of scam.

I was taking an example to an extreme and even then you fail to answer it, most fiat casino are under the supervision of some organization which is ridiculous to begin with. Had I proposed to chose the "roll" myself in an honest manner the probability of me not being a scammer is so minuscule that assuming that I am one would be a question of logic for the average intellectual.

Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one.  You can think what you want.  Others might be tempted to share your opinion if you could present it in a way that makes sense to them.

If there's a flaw, please describe it and how it could be exploited?  What's the worse that could happen if I was some evil MySQL/PHP-fueled genius with a fake bet machine?  What's the doomsday scenario here?  You seem to be comparing JD to MtGox, but JD is provably solvent, and whether or not Gox had "fake trades" on their site wasn't related to their eventual demise.  So what gives?

It could be found out that the worth of the casino was non-existent while fake bets were being created, additional fake investors could be created in order toe balance everything out since I imagine not every single person checks whether he is on the list.

Bitcoin debt issued out of thin air.








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Keyser Soze
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May 20, 2014, 10:38:58 PM
 #27

It could be found out that the worth of the casino was non-existent while fake bets were being created, additional fake investors could be created in order toe balance everything out since I imagine not every single person checks whether he is on the list.

Bitcoin debt issued out of thin air.
If this was the case, then why does the balance of the cold wallet plus the hot wallet total more then then invested amount? Clearly he has possession of the coins he says he has.
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May 20, 2014, 10:46:51 PM
 #28

It could be found out that the worth of the casino was non-existent while fake bets were being created, additional fake investors could be created in order toe balance everything out since I imagine not every single person checks whether he is on the list.

Bitcoin debt issued out of thin air.
If this was the case, then why does the balance of the cold wallet plus the hot wallet total more then then invested amount? Clearly he has possession of the coins he says he has.

It could be that the volume of fake bets got so high that people invested themselves, it could be that some investments don't show up on the website after an investor invests.








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May 20, 2014, 10:51:51 PM
 #29

Just gotta say as always, dooglus +1 for being clear and explaining things.  

It should be obvious to everyone by now that if you were a crook you'd been gone a long time ago.  You yourself have already explained how while you can make a reasonably provably fair system for players, it's really hard to make one for investors.

So Mad if you want to be critical that may be a more useful avenue.

Not choosing to implement a system that may further prove you are honest does not make one dishonest.

Good Luck!
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May 20, 2014, 10:53:43 PM
 #30

Just gotta say as always, dooglus +1 for being clear and explaining things. 

It should be obvious to everyone by now that if you were a crook you'd been gone a long time ago.  You yourself have already explained how while you can make a reasonably provably fair system for players, it's really hard to make one for investors.

So Mad if you want to be critical that may be a more useful avenue.

Not choosing to implement a system that may further prove you are honest does not make one dishonest.

Good Luck!

Reading mad's posts makes me think he's a conspiracy theorist. I just don't see enough proof against Dooglus, and Dooglus appears to be as transparent as possible without risking the safety of his investors/players.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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madmadmax
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May 20, 2014, 10:56:24 PM
 #31

Just gotta say as always, dooglus +1 for being clear and explaining things. 

It should be obvious to everyone by now that if you were a crook you'd been gone a long time ago.  You yourself have already explained how while you can make a reasonably provably fair system for players, it's really hard to make one for investors.

So Mad if you want to be critical that may be a more useful avenue.

Not choosing to implement a system that may further prove you are honest does not make one dishonest.

Good Luck!

Reading mad's posts makes me think he's a conspiracy theorist. I just don't see enough proof against Dooglus, and Dooglus appears to be as transparent as possible without risking the safety of his investors/players.

You could say the same about the owners of Gox before it all went down, I just want to encourage critical thinking and make people question their blind decisions.








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May 20, 2014, 10:58:09 PM
 #32

so... guys casinobit.net is apparently a very nice casino, owned by yours truly... as an alt account of course.

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May 20, 2014, 10:58:29 PM
 #33

Just gotta say as always, dooglus +1 for being clear and explaining things.  

It should be obvious to everyone by now that if you were a crook you'd been gone a long time ago.  You yourself have already explained how while you can make a reasonably provably fair system for players, it's really hard to make one for investors.

So Mad if you want to be critical that may be a more useful avenue.

Not choosing to implement a system that may further prove you are honest does not make one dishonest.

Good Luck!

Reading mad's posts makes me think he's a conspiracy theorist. I just don't see enough proof against Dooglus, and Dooglus appears to be as transparent as possible without risking the safety of his investors/players.

You could say the same about the owners of Gox before it all went down, I just want to encourage critical thinking and make people question their blind decisions.

This is true, and in some cases the conspiracies come true (or are true). Everyone has to make their own judgements, and while I understand where you're coming from on that, you're just not putting it in a way where I can see it the same way you do.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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May 20, 2014, 10:59:42 PM
 #34

In the logs posted, the op strikes me as law enforcement trying to do blockchain analytics on large tx betters using this service as a honeypot.

I knew someone would bring it up, consider the latest openssl bug, now realize that chances are almost all authorities and/or organizations that would want to access this information already have access to it.

The only ones who cannot access it are private organizations and/or people like you or me.

This Heartbleed talk is generalized nonsense. You're basically asking the operator to divulge information about users under the pretense of fraud accusations. Unfortunately, people who are not you are not privy to whatever is happening inside your head, so there is nothing irrational about having the suspicion that these are your intentions. It might not even be that you yourself have any law enforcement position, but you could very well be someone nabbed for something turning states evidence to plea your situation down. We have no way of knowing, and it doesn't help that no normal person would ever give this much of a shit about what you're talking about!
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May 20, 2014, 11:04:10 PM
 #35

It could be that the volume of fake bets got so high that people invested themselves, it could be that some investments don't show up on the website after an investor invests.

So you are trying to say that the actual amount invested is greater then what he says? If this was the case, having fake bets would make no difference.
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May 20, 2014, 11:06:45 PM
 #36

You could say the same about the owners of Gox before it all went down, I just want to encourage critical thinking and make people question their blind decisions.

No, actually you cannot, Mt. Gox is a false comparison with a very different business model and was not nearly as transparent as dooglus has been with Just-Dice.  

Encouraging critical thinking is a worthy goal, but I'm not sure the way to engender it is to walk into a chat room and accusing someone of being a scammer along a dimension that really would not benefit them much.  YMMV.
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May 21, 2014, 02:26:18 AM
 #37

I'm back, and disappointed but unsurprised to find that OP hasn't made any kind of sensible response to my posts.

Reading mad's posts makes me think he's a conspiracy theorist.

The word "sheeple" in someone's vocabulary is pretty much unique in this respect.  Using it three times in a short succession is quite conclusive:

Quote
12:41:40 (755992) <raylene> keep on being sheeple and learn critical thinking or else I've got a bridge to sell you
12:48:40 (755992) <raylene> you could call me an altruist I guess, I help you sheeple fight darwinism by protecting you from scams
12:57:19 (755992) <raylene> because sheeple that's why

Dooglus appears to be as transparent as possible without risking the safety of his investors/players.

You could say the same about the owners of Gox before it all went down, I just want to encourage critical thinking and make people question their blind decisions.

You couldn't say anything like the same about MtGox.  They never published a list of user balances, and only once (to my knowledge) did any kind of proof of holding coins with the 424242 BTC transaction or whatever it was.  What you could say about MtGox would be:

"MtGox held large amounts of customer funds but never proved they were solvent.  It was therefore not particularly surprising when they declared bankruptcy.  Just-Dice on the other hand proves their solvency every week, and has been doing so since shortly after launch, well before MtGox shut down, so there's really no similarity".

That would be more truthful but wouldn't help your case.

I wonder what your real motivation is behind this witch hunt.  Is it something to do with your own failed casino site I wonder?  Weren't you the guy who tried to copy JD's investment model on a crappy video-based roulette site and ended up "losing" customer funds somehow?

so... guys casinobit.net is apparently a very nice casino, owned by yours truly... as an alt account of course.

"Yours truly" means "me", not "him".  Doesn't it?

Oh, by the way I managed to find the post where I was previously called a scammer for not publishing transaction IDs.  It's from "tmbp" who I've long believed to be the guy who ran casinobit (into the ground), and I'm not the only one:

It's funny because this thread is garbage and every poster here has a Trust rating of -10 or less.

It is, because most of them are either the scammers that I have reported or their shills, they also get pissed off and neg rep me too.

Where is the list of all the bets together with txids that are on the blockchain on Just-dice.com?

Just-Dice doesn't fill the blockchain with bets.  If you had done any research at all you would know that.

Dooglus, stop trying to twist your way out of this, where is the list of the txids of the desposits of all the accounts on your website?

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madmadmax
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May 21, 2014, 03:50:37 AM
 #38

I'm back, and disappointed but unsurprised to find that OP hasn't made any kind of sensible response to my posts.

Reading mad's posts makes me think he's a conspiracy theorist.

The word "sheeple" in someone's vocabulary is pretty much unique in this respect.  Using it three times in a short succession is quite conclusive:

Quote
12:41:40 (755992) <raylene> keep on being sheeple and learn critical thinking or else I've got a bridge to sell you
12:48:40 (755992) <raylene> you could call me an altruist I guess, I help you sheeple fight darwinism by protecting you from scams
12:57:19 (755992) <raylene> because sheeple that's why

Dooglus appears to be as transparent as possible without risking the safety of his investors/players.

You could say the same about the owners of Gox before it all went down, I just want to encourage critical thinking and make people question their blind decisions.

You couldn't say anything like the same about MtGox.  They never published a list of user balances, and only once (to my knowledge) did any kind of proof of holding coins with the 424242 BTC transaction or whatever it was.  What you could say about MtGox would be:

"MtGox held large amounts of customer funds but never proved they were solvent.  It was therefore not particularly surprising when they declared bankruptcy.  Just-Dice on the other hand proves their solvency every week, and has been doing so since shortly after launch, well before MtGox shut down, so there's really no similarity".

That would be more truthful but wouldn't help your case.

I wonder what your real motivation is behind this witch hunt.  Is it something to do with your own failed casino site I wonder?  Weren't you the guy who tried to copy JD's investment model on a crappy video-based roulette site and ended up "losing" customer funds somehow?

so... guys casinobit.net is apparently a very nice casino, owned by yours truly... as an alt account of course.

"Yours truly" means "me", not "him".  Doesn't it?

Oh, by the way I managed to find the post where I was previously called a scammer for not publishing transaction IDs.  It's from "tmbp" who I've long believed to be the guy who ran casinobit (into the ground), and I'm not the only one:

It's funny because this thread is garbage and every poster here has a Trust rating of -10 or less.

It is, because most of them are either the scammers that I have reported or their shills, they also get pissed off and neg rep me too.

Where is the list of all the bets together with txids that are on the blockchain on Just-dice.com?

Just-Dice doesn't fill the blockchain with bets.  If you had done any research at all you would know that.

Dooglus, stop trying to twist your way out of this, where is the list of the txids of the desposits of all the accounts on your website?

Dooglus you are with the website which looks like it was designed by a 14 year old, how anyone could design a crappier looking website I have no idea but it definitely sounds like an accomplishment.

Another person has mentioned the same flaw, surprise surprise, we must be both shills for the same website which no longer exists? How does pointing out your flaws supposedly helps promote another website again?

Perhaps I have read the post before, I wasn't aware that someone else had made the same exact accusation some time ago, however I don't see how it helps your case.








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dooglus
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May 21, 2014, 08:18:23 AM
 #39

Dooglus you are with the website which looks like it was designed by a 14 year old, how anyone could design a crappier looking website I have no idea but it definitely sounds like an accomplishment.

It featured red text on a red background for much of its user interface.  It had almost no traffic.  And the investment feature they copied from JD was so badly botched that early investors were able to withdraw investments made by later investors.  Kind of an unintentional Ponzi scheme.

It would have been funny if so many people didn't lose coins to the owner's incompetence.

Another person has mentioned the same flaw, surprise surprise, we must be both shills for the same website which no longer exists? How does pointing out your flaws supposedly helps promote another website again?

I didn't say you were trying to promote your dead site.  I was wondering if perhaps you were butthurt because your site was such a horrific failure in every way, and so you feel like the only way to explain it is to decide that successful sites must be scams in some way.

Perhaps I have read the post before, I wasn't aware that someone else had made the same exact accusation some time ago, however I don't see how it helps your case.

The "someone else" made the exact same crazy point in the same aggressive way, exhibited the same faulty reasoning and had the same writing style as you.  He had also already been identified as one of your socks independently of me.  So it's either a really weird coincidence, or you're not being entirely truthful.

Anyway, thanks for playing.  It's been fun.

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madmadmax
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May 21, 2014, 11:31:04 AM
 #40

Dooglus you are with the website which looks like it was designed by a 14 year old, how anyone could design a crappier looking website I have no idea but it definitely sounds like an accomplishment.

It featured red text on a red background for much of its user interface.  It had almost no traffic.  And the investment feature they copied from JD was so badly botched that early investors were able to withdraw investments made by later investors.  Kind of an unintentional Ponzi scheme.

It would have been funny if so many people didn't lose coins to the owner's incompetence.

Another person has mentioned the same flaw, surprise surprise, we must be both shills for the same website which no longer exists? How does pointing out your flaws supposedly helps promote another website again?

I didn't say you were trying to promote your dead site.  I was wondering if perhaps you were butthurt because your site was such a horrific failure in every way, and so you feel like the only way to explain it is to decide that successful sites must be scams in some way.

Perhaps I have read the post before, I wasn't aware that someone else had made the same exact accusation some time ago, however I don't see how it helps your case.

The "someone else" made the exact same crazy point in the same aggressive way, exhibited the same faulty reasoning and had the same writing style as you.  He had also already been identified as one of your socks independently of me.  So it's either a really weird coincidence, or you're not being entirely truthful.

Anyway, thanks for playing.  It's been fun.

I would just post with that account had it been under my control. Making personal insults against legit criticism makes you sound like the butthurt one, virtually any dice website looks better than JD, Primedice etc etc. Am I a shill for every other dice website out there as well?

I was accused to be related to the Casinobit business by some idiot off the forum with no evidence, I have later read the posts by tmbp. How the fuck does that make me more related to the whole deal?








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Decentralized Oracle
Infinitly Scalable
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Turing-Complete
State-Channels



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