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Author Topic: Dealing with idiots.  (Read 2074 times)
BitcoinBadger
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May 22, 2014, 02:34:27 PM
 #21

We are all idiots in one way or another.

Yes, you think Idiots are those who are against your convictions and they do something like you wouldn't do? Or what? Everyone have Its truths, those "Idiots" that you don't like probably think that you are the one, so... But yes people with different thinking and convictions shouldn't contact or be in one place. Like a lot of people say : we are different.
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May 22, 2014, 02:41:41 PM
 #22

 A personal favorite of mine:

1. Never argue. Be the first to hear them out, don't interrupt. They will do the same for you.
2. When you have to provide an argument state it in a way you could be either wrong or perhaps<---(the magic word.) correct.
3. Save face - no one likes being told they're wrong and especially when they truly believe they're correct..



 I learned this from a book. It's a good read - How to win friends and influence people.

Don't think of them as an idiot or you will treat them like one unknowingly. See them as the best person they could possibly be!!:)

I've befriended and made a lot of friends happy. It was like their first time having someone hear them out. When my turn came they heard every word I had to give.

The only way to work, is to work together. Smiley + Smiley = Cheesy  Cheesy

cbcb.me (http://cbcb.me) My blog
TheFootMan
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May 23, 2014, 01:02:43 PM
 #23

We are all idiots in one way or another.

Yes, you think Idiots are those who are against your convictions and they do something like you wouldn't do? Or what? Everyone have Its truths, those "Idiots" that you don't like probably think that you are the one, so... But yes people with different thinking and convictions shouldn't contact or be in one place. Like a lot of people say : we are different.

Well, it's not so much about having different opinions. It's about civilized and adult conversation. Some people are actually unable to take critisism, to act in good faith, and deny every wrongdoing.

I don't mind people who disagree with me irl, but people who disagree with me irl and disrespect me without me having disrespected them, that's true idiots. Now, 'idiot' is a tongue in cheek expression as well, there are many shades of grey when it comes to this.
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May 23, 2014, 02:03:11 PM
 #24

I learned this from a book. It's a good read - How to win friends and influence people.

I've heard about that book. I'd like to read it as well, so I will get it, however I never cared about being a social camelon.

But much of business and politics is about that. It's not about who's got the best solutions and who's got the best arguments and ideas, but it's about who's best to sell their idea and influence other people to actually use their idea/buy their tool.

I think it's wrong. I think it's important to look at every option in a neutral way, and not buy something because the salesman or politician is 'charming'. But most people are unfortunately swayed by the personality of others.

Also it's a point that a professional should not be swayed by charm, og be detracted by criticism, he should handle all cases in a professional manner.

When I want something fixed, which is a relatively easy and straightforward task, I don't think it's unreasonable to just report it in a polite and cvilized manner, and then have it resolved in good faith in a reasonable time frame. I don't think it should be necessary to make dozens of phone calls and small talk and influence various people to have that case solved.

Let me take a very simple case. There's a hole in your local road. And you fear that children might hit it with their bicycle or get hurt, or that some people might get a foot stuck into it. The local municipality is the owner of this road, so you send an e-mail to your local municipality stating:

"Dear local municipality,

there's a hole in the road near the church, could you please fix it as soon as possible to ensure the safety of the local children, pedestrians and cyclists?

Thank you very much in advance.

Best regards a concerned citizen."

Then... you receive no response. So after a week you send another e-mail pointing to the first e-mail you sent which was not responded to. And still no response.

Then after another week you send another e-mail complaining that the municipality has not responded to your request, and asking them to act immediately, pointing to state and municipality law explaining that the municipality is required to act on the case.

Then... instead of actually having the issue resolved, you receive a stern e-mail which in essence says: "Fuck off!" Of course with a much more elaborate and official language.

I guess you could call instead and speak with somebody, and be transferred from one person to the other, and not really reaching anyone that could actually do anything about the case, or speak with anyone that actually has any power to have the case resolved. And you get a promise of that they'll get in touch with you, something that never happens.

So, exactly how patient should a private person be, and is it not reasonable that an issue is resolved, or at least responded to in a timely manner. They could've said: "We are currently swamped with requests, your issue has been filed, and we will do our best to prioritize it, it's been forwarded to maintenance department where Tom Bobby is the manager in charge. If the issue is not resolved within 7 days, please get in touch with him"

So then, when the issue is not resolved, and despite numerous phone calls and e-mails where you have actually said that this lack of responsiveness is unacceptable and in direct violation of state law, it's still not resolved, and you end up being the 'difficult idiot', and they just start ignoring you...

How do you actually influence and win such people as friends? Should you never complain, never raise your voice, never be angry, when they do not do their job? And besides, they should be professionals, it should not be necessary to influence and win them over as friends.

But that's how the world actually works... Having connections... so if I worked super hard, became rich, and was a friend with the mayor, and attended superficial stupid parties he also attended, and had some golf rounds with him, and licked his back and sucked up all his stupidity, then I could simply ask him nicely, what about that hole behind the church, would it be possible to fix it? And the next day there would be municipality workers there fixing it on the mayors request.

Same thing with everything really - say there's a problem in the local town - an ordinary citizen complains about littering in the street where he lives, the municipality does not do jack shit, then if it's some important officials living there, extra garbage trucks are immediately dispatched and garbage removal is upgraded to allow for more frequent removal of garbage.

I see that shit everywhere. So it's not actually enough to be an honest person expecting things to work in a logical and honest way, expect to weasel your way if you want to go anywhere, to lie, deceive and manipulate, become a social vampire that influence people to act in a way that you see fit. It's not about how you act or what you say, but about who you know..

In a perfect world I think people should listen to each other and not be afraid of speaking their mind, and people should tolerate to hear what's also not so nice. You need to be resourceful and strong to stand up against the system, so I can't even imagine what it must be like for those very weak.

These kind of things also creates a very unhealthy atmosphere where people are afraid of speaking up, because of the possible consequences. In certain countries we see this is very much apparent, but also in a lot of western socalled civilized countries, we have a lot of these problems.

And then there's the kind of people that steal all your energy, why should you influence and be friends with those people ? Only giving, and not receiving anything. The people who always call you when they need help, and never call you at other times. And when you call them, they don't even bother to answer if it's unconvenient for them.

And why on earth is a simple 'hello' not enough when you walk past someone you know on the street, why is it customary to stop and talk for 10-30 minutes? While I guess some people enjoy wasting their time, I don't enjoy wasting my time so much. Smalltalk can be nice, but when I go to the store, my mission is to go to the store get what I need, and then go home, it's not to entertain people on the road.

And should you really need to create 'connections' to have issues resolved that's actually mandatory by the officials to solve by law ?

It's a true thing that listening and caring about others will make them like you too, so it's really up to you what you want to make of it. If you want to make an honest effort, it's not difficult to make friends and influence people, but it takes a lot of time and resources. And most of those socalled connections and 'friends' will never really be friends. If you moved to another city and caught cancer and was hospitalized, how many of those 'friends' would come over to sit with your bedside, to take time off work to help you through that difficult period?

The truth is that very few would - so why should you invest in humans, other than those you think are really good and deep honest friends ? What value does the superficial human connections bring ? Isn't all of that a mirage? People think they're good friends, but once troubles arise, the friendship quickly shatters in most cases. It's easy to sail along when the sea is quiet.

Not sure if others agree, but time on earth is limited for everyone - so why waste it? If you do have ambitions in life, if you want to go somewhere or achieve something, in certain fields you're dependant on making friends and influencing people, while in other fields you can be a complete lone wolf and still be successful.

Now, picture this: You're working at a restaurant as a waiter, and you're happily married with two children, you've lived in the same town your entire life, and you're very happy, you're social in the evenings, and there's always people over in the weekends or you visit someone elses house. It's constantly something that's happening. That man is happy and satisfied, great.

Then there's the other young dude. His ambitions for life is to become an expert in a technical field, so he needs to spend all his time learning, practicing and researching. Although he ocassionally attends social events, that might not be something that's close to his nature, or something that he desires to do, if he should influence people and get friends, he would have much less time to study and become an expert.

The point is that time is an asset, and some people really don't desire to have all that smalltalk with other people that's completely unproductive to their goal. Imagine you're a businessperson and want to grow your business, while it's nice to meet your old neighboor in the food store, you simply don't have the time to stand talking to her for 30 mins, that's 30 mins you just lost in your mission to grow your business.

So while that businessperson might smile and say: "Gotta go! See you later!", he might be perceived as unpolite by the old neighboor, so once there's an issue in the local neighboorhood, the old neighboor might actually cause difficulties for the businessman, because the pensioner doesn't like him, although there's no reason for that, apart from the fact that the businessman doesn't want to stand and smalltalk for 30 minutes to satisfy the old person's desire for human contact.

Same thing at the gym, the efficient career woman goes in and out in 45 minutes, and doesn't have the time to small talk to other members who don't value their own time, and as she's engaged she's not interested in all the attempts from men in the gym to hit on her, she usually just gives them an uninterested stare and says in a polite way: "I would appreciate it if you would not talk to me while training, thanks", or she just walks away whenever such a man approaches. She might be considered a bitch by these men, but the truth is that their approaches are completely unwanted, and she might actually be the nicest person imaginable, but she just doesn't have time for wasting time talking to strangers in the gym.

So while many of the people approaching you are friendly and well meaning, if it does not fit you mission - you don't have time to spend with them to the extent that they would like. And if you have too much friends, it's simply becoming too much too handle, and you will never really have time for yourself.

So sometimes, I do think it's better to just be abrupt and dismissive in a social setting to give the signal you're not interested in talking. That will also have the effect that the same people will probably not approach you the next time, but would rather think: "Oh, there's the idiot".

You all know the people who approach you and will never stop talking, so your lunch, your time with friend or family is suddenly destroyed because of that person who can never stop talking.

And it's a true fact - those with ambitions who work hard, and keep going no matter how many idiots and hardship they experience on their way, and no matter how many actually perceive you as an idiot, will have more success in life than the person who only have a low paid job and are always out with his friends.

Success can be measured in many ways, but it's not about the money, but what you can do with the money.

Do you love peace and quiet? Money can buy you a cabin in a remote place where you can experience exactly that. Do you want a good health? Money can give you the power to focus on that.

Sure, influence people and win friends, but select your close friends carefully, and be disciplined with your own time and resources.

My two cents.
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May 24, 2014, 03:55:41 PM
 #25

Quote
I learned this from a book. It's a good read - How to win friends and influence people.

This book should be named "How to manipulate people for your own needs"
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May 24, 2014, 04:24:30 PM
 #26

Quote
I learned this from a book. It's a good read - How to win friends and influence people.

This book should be named "How to manipulate people for your own needs"

Keen observation.
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May 24, 2014, 04:32:17 PM
 #27

My definition of idiots are quite broad.  Grin

But in generally it covers people who are difficult for no apparent reason, unfriendly, and difficult to handle.

Here are my favourite way of dealing with idiots.

- If I don't have to answer to them or deal with them on a daily basis and I'm not dependent on them: Ignore the hell out of them. Don't even talk to them.
- If I work with them and its completely unbearable, either push that person away so he needs to find himself a new job, can be a lenghty process and might not work, or just quit myself.
- Just endure the presence of the idiot until I no longer have to deal with that person, be it a flight, a meeting or a project job.

- If forced to deal with an idiot, and I've either somehow managed to become 'enemies' with that person previously, or my efforts to actually have things done and to demand actions are perceived as hostile, and the other person is just being a no-go, then I try to be polite and factual in all communications, and if it just doesn't help, I put in a wrench to gain leverage, be it contacting a supervisor, an overseeing authority or anyone else that has some power over this person, also peer pressure, letting others know what this person is doing might help. That could backfire as well as it could be considered me being a rat. But if the communication consistently is bad and in bad faith, I document everything, so I can prove what's going on if I have to complain to someone. But if I can and the issue at hand is not worth fighting for, I dismiss the entire situation, and rather spend my time productively on something else. Sometimes fighting for something is not worth it, as the payout cannot justify the effort.

Usually I just like logic and saying things straightforward, but add a dash of social IQ to it, but many people have a big problem dealing with honest criticism and things that are in general not good, and if you attack such people in any way, they're usually quick to go into defense mode, and then the case is most often completely dead.

I've also noticed that being angry or attacking is seldom solving a case at all, even though many people, esp. those employed somewhere, are supposed to be professional and handle criticism in a professional manner. Nothing is more annoying than knowing you're right, and then speaking to some drone that claims something else, or just makes up things of thin air.

But in general I think it's wise not to take things personal, as it will wreck your mood pretty much, but it can be difficult at times, esp. when there are things you're trying to solve, and you're dependent on other people to have it solved, and they're just not helping to make it happen. And some of those people, if you complain about their conduct, they just start stonewalling you and nothing happens, even if its against the service statement where they're employed. The end result is that you waste a lot of time and energy trying to solve a simple issue, but it becomes overly complicated because of people - I guess you call that bureaucracy.

A good way to handle idiots on call centers is btw to just hang up and call again, repeat until you have someone on the line that actually acts like a human. Those acting in bad faith, will only unwillingly help, and in the process they will cause a lot of mayhem.

One thing that works with officials however is the law. If you can point to a certain piece of law, they're bound by that - and need to act, or else they're violating their job description, and will rightfully be reprimanded by a superior, but they will very seldom be sacked, so after a little while its business as usual again..

So... what's your favourite way of dealing with idiots?
Take a deep breath, shake your head and laugh to yourself. I have to deal with stupid people all day long and if you don't find humor in them, you will give yourself an ulcer. Either that or your head will explode. Life it too short to let them get to you.

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May 24, 2014, 06:16:37 PM
 #28

If you have a problem with someone, sit down and explain it. Ignoring it or ignoring them is being an idiot. There is only one reality and in that reality we all understand each other and everything. If you don’t explain your feelings or actions, that makes you the idiot.

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May 25, 2014, 05:37:43 PM
 #29

Take a deep breath, shake your head and laugh to yourself. I have to deal with stupid people all day long and if you don't find humor in them, you will give yourself an ulcer. Either that or your head will explode. Life it too short to let them get to you.

Thanks for the refreshing point of view. You have got the right idea. What you say is entirely true. I work on not caring too much of others, as this give them power over me, and I'm myself the master of my own mind, however - there's some people you can't avoid to see in daily life, and while you might not need to interact with them, it would be better not to see them at all.

So the option is always there, to get a new job, or to move, whatever a person might think might fix the issue.

But you're most certainly right in the fact that nurturing that discontent is not the way to go. Keeping the mind occupied with other stuff is great. Once you're occupied with something, the mind will not wander.

Do you have any good tips for attempting to make the mind think of positive and uplifting things? I guess it's only natural that when you're in a good mood, the mind wanders in lights places, and that the opposite is also true, when the mood is bad, the mind wanders in dark places.. And the psyche is connected to the body as well, everything is interconnected, but most of society expect you to function like a machine...
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May 26, 2014, 12:11:38 AM
 #30

If you have a problem with someone, sit down and explain it. Ignoring it or ignoring them is being an idiot. There is only one reality and in that reality we all understand each other and everything. If you don’t explain your feelings or actions, that makes you the idiot.

Good points. Trying to mend things by communicating with people you think it's important to be on good terms with is a good idea, but people you only infrequently meet, and they're sleazy selfish greedy exploiters and power-hungry maniacs, why on earth should you give them even 5 minutes of your time unless its for whatever reason is strictly necessary?

And if you're not dependent on someone, why on earth should you suck up to all their silliness and quirks?
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