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Author Topic: Solar Freak'n Panel Roadways!!!! Awesome Indiegogo Project, LETS SUPPORT IT!!  (Read 2863 times)
bluefirecorp
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May 26, 2014, 08:43:18 PM
 #21

It sounds fine with all the positive arguments, but it is sad that there is always only one side of the aspects shown.

What if these pannels get dirty all over the time? You would need an incredible amount of workers to clean them regurlarly. ALL of the roads or grounds ALL over the country. Can you even imagine the amount of workers doing so?
Additionally imagine how long it takes to replace everything with these. The actual amount of roadworks EVERYWHERE.

Don't forget the huge expense in replacing these. One panel gets cracked / stolen / etc... then all of a sudden, they have to replace it, which is a lot more money.

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Cryptopher
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May 26, 2014, 08:47:05 PM
 #22

It sounds fine with all the positive arguments, but it is sad that there is always only one side of the aspects shown.

What if these pannels get dirty all over the time? You would need an incredible amount of workers to clean them regurlarly. ALL of the roads or grounds ALL over the country. Can you even imagine the amount of workers doing so?
Additionally imagine how long it takes to replace everything with these. The actual amount of roadworks EVERYWHERE.

Don't forget the huge expense in replacing these. One panel gets cracked / stolen / etc... then all of a sudden, they have to replace it, which is a lot more money.

Can't be as bad as a pothole, surely?

Mind, if one was loose then perhaps it could be a problem. I'm sure that all angles will be covered when these are considered, if they haven't been already.

Very exciting tech, but I feel that we should be trying this out to replace tiles on roofs first of all Smiley

bluefirecorp
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May 26, 2014, 08:57:23 PM
 #23

It sounds fine with all the positive arguments, but it is sad that there is always only one side of the aspects shown.

What if these pannels get dirty all over the time? You would need an incredible amount of workers to clean them regurlarly. ALL of the roads or grounds ALL over the country. Can you even imagine the amount of workers doing so?
Additionally imagine how long it takes to replace everything with these. The actual amount of roadworks EVERYWHERE.

Don't forget the huge expense in replacing these. One panel gets cracked / stolen / etc... then all of a sudden, they have to replace it, which is a lot more money.

Can't be as bad as a pothole, surely?

Mind, if one was loose then perhaps it could be a problem. I'm sure that all angles will be covered when these are considered, if they haven't been already.

Very exciting tech, but I feel that we should be trying this out to replace tiles on roofs first of all Smiley

You're driving one day, and a huge section of the road is missing. I'd say that's much worse than a pothole. (Someone stole the 'road' so they could sell the solar cells for a discount on the blackmarket using a fairly anonymous crypto-currency... what's the name of that one that's worth a lot now, hmm.. I can't remember).

Cryptopher
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May 26, 2014, 09:11:50 PM
 #24

It sounds fine with all the positive arguments, but it is sad that there is always only one side of the aspects shown.

What if these pannels get dirty all over the time? You would need an incredible amount of workers to clean them regurlarly. ALL of the roads or grounds ALL over the country. Can you even imagine the amount of workers doing so?
Additionally imagine how long it takes to replace everything with these. The actual amount of roadworks EVERYWHERE.

Don't forget the huge expense in replacing these. One panel gets cracked / stolen / etc... then all of a sudden, they have to replace it, which is a lot more money.

Can't be as bad as a pothole, surely?

Mind, if one was loose then perhaps it could be a problem. I'm sure that all angles will be covered when these are considered, if they haven't been already.

Very exciting tech, but I feel that we should be trying this out to replace tiles on roofs first of all Smiley

You're driving one day, and a huge section of the road is missing. I'd say that's much worse than a pothole. (Someone stole the 'road' so they could sell the solar cells for a discount on the blackmarket using a fairly anonymous crypto-currency... what's the name of that one that's worth a lot now, hmm.. I can't remember).

Now that's a different scenario you're talking about. I guess it depends on what they are mounted on. I think that's where most of the cost comes from, in providing the foundations for these panels to be applied.

It's a radical idea, just like Bitcoin, there are going to be suggested problems, sure. But it's up to those with the expertise to find solutions. Theft is an age old problem, though I doubt that these things would sell for much at all, unless you had crazy bulk maybe.

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May 27, 2014, 10:34:01 PM
 #25

It sounds fine with all the positive arguments, but it is sad that there is always only one side of the aspects shown.

What if these pannels get dirty all over the time? You would need an incredible amount of workers to clean them regurlarly. ALL of the roads or grounds ALL over the country. Can you even imagine the amount of workers doing so?
Additionally imagine how long it takes to replace everything with these. The actual amount of roadworks EVERYWHERE.

Don't forget the huge expense in replacing these. One panel gets cracked / stolen / etc... then all of a sudden, they have to replace it, which is a lot more money.

Can't be as bad as a pothole, surely?

Mind, if one was loose then perhaps it could be a problem. I'm sure that all angles will be covered when these are considered, if they haven't been already.

Very exciting tech, but I feel that we should be trying this out to replace tiles on roofs first of all Smiley

You're driving one day, and a huge section of the road is missing. I'd say that's much worse than a pothole. (Someone stole the 'road' so they could sell the solar cells for a discount on the blackmarket using a fairly anonymous crypto-currency... what's the name of that one that's worth a lot now, hmm.. I can't remember).

Now that's a different scenario you're talking about. I guess it depends on what they are mounted on. I think that's where most of the cost comes from, in providing the foundations for these panels to be applied.

It's a radical idea, just like Bitcoin, there are going to be suggested problems, sure. But it's up to those with the expertise to find solutions. Theft is an age old problem, though I doubt that these things would sell for much at all, unless you had crazy bulk maybe.

Again, do your research.

Each panel communicates with the ones next to it via a wireless connection. If one is malfunctioning, damaged or stops communicating the whole network is notified. This accomplishes several things, amongst which are three relevant points:

ONE, if a panel needs to be replaced for whatever reason, the road crews are notified. The notification will tell the repair crew EXACTLY WHERE THE PROBLEM PANEL IS.

That leads to number TWO, as soon as the panels are tampered with a notification goes out to the base station. It would take awhile to remove enough panels to be worth the trouble. If stolen, the thieves will, at some point, have to travel along the same roads that are made of the panels. Since the panels communicate EXACTLY WHERE THEY ARE via a wireless connection, there location will be know, even when they are being transported. How long do you think it would take law enforcement to find the thieves before they even leave the crime scene let alone while they are trying to get away?

And THREE, a nice feature of the panels is that they can notify drivers of road issues ahead (via LED's embedded into the panels,) so a driver would have advanced notice of dangerous road conditions that lay ahead.
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May 27, 2014, 10:37:28 PM
 #26

Wow, they are currently at $1,256,771 raised, out of the $1,000,000 they requested, and there's still 6 more days to go. Not bad. Smiley

i think it's genius. the sun gives us more energy in one day than the whole world uses in one year. i would invest if they were publicly traded.

I'm investing for the sake of mans future, but being able to earn otherwise would be a nice perk.

I read an article today about that; it goes into how other campaigners have in the past been bought off by large companies, leaving the initial investors with little or nothing to show for their support, and how that could be avoided: http://falkvinge.net/2014/05/26/solar-roadways-please-learn-from-oculus-mistake-and-become-a-co-op/.

That's wonderful, I hope I help them in some small way to reach their goal. Now lets hope they do even better so they can get this tech out and in use!
bluefirecorp
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May 27, 2014, 10:38:11 PM
 #27

It sounds fine with all the positive arguments, but it is sad that there is always only one side of the aspects shown.

What if these pannels get dirty all over the time? You would need an incredible amount of workers to clean them regurlarly. ALL of the roads or grounds ALL over the country. Can you even imagine the amount of workers doing so?
Additionally imagine how long it takes to replace everything with these. The actual amount of roadworks EVERYWHERE.

Don't forget the huge expense in replacing these. One panel gets cracked / stolen / etc... then all of a sudden, they have to replace it, which is a lot more money.

Can't be as bad as a pothole, surely?

Mind, if one was loose then perhaps it could be a problem. I'm sure that all angles will be covered when these are considered, if they haven't been already.

Very exciting tech, but I feel that we should be trying this out to replace tiles on roofs first of all Smiley

You're driving one day, and a huge section of the road is missing. I'd say that's much worse than a pothole. (Someone stole the 'road' so they could sell the solar cells for a discount on the blackmarket using a fairly anonymous crypto-currency... what's the name of that one that's worth a lot now, hmm.. I can't remember).

Now that's a different scenario you're talking about. I guess it depends on what they are mounted on. I think that's where most of the cost comes from, in providing the foundations for these panels to be applied.

It's a radical idea, just like Bitcoin, there are going to be suggested problems, sure. But it's up to those with the expertise to find solutions. Theft is an age old problem, though I doubt that these things would sell for much at all, unless you had crazy bulk maybe.

Again, do your research.

Each panel communicates with the ones next to it via a wireless connection. If one is malfunctioning, damaged or stops communicating the whole network is notified. This accomplishes several things, amongst which are three relevant points:

ONE, if a panel needs to be replaced for whatever reason, the road crews are notified. The notification will tell the repair crew EXACTLY WHERE THE PROBLEM PANEL IS.

That leads to number TWO, as soon as the panels are tampered with a notification goes out to the base station. It would take awhile to remove enough panels to be worth the trouble. If stolen, the thieves will, at some point, have to travel along the same roads that are made of the panels. Since the panels communicate EXACTLY WHERE THEY ARE via a wireless connection, there location will be know, even when they are being transported. How long do you think it would take law enforcement to find the thieves before they even leave the crime scene let alone while they are trying to get away?

And THREE, a nice feature of the panels is that they can notify drivers of road issues ahead (via LED's embedded into the panels,) so a driver would have advanced notice of dangerous road conditions that lay ahead.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. We're including networking into this? So, that means there has to be some sort of network communication running along the panels. It can't just be a giant wireless mesh (there'd be way, way too much crosstalk; CSMA/CA wouldn't work with that many connections trying to communicate). This idea is more and more far-fetched.

Honestly, you don't think that the thieves would just jam the signal / cut the cable? Honestly, this idea is as feasible as a space elevator.

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May 27, 2014, 10:40:40 PM
 #28


Thanks DooMAD,

bluefirecorp and SgtSpike haven't read their FAQ's. Those objections are covered and reasonably so. Before anyone detracts from the idea, maybe they should do more research. Read their FAQ's here and Watch their videos, Youtube search and here a good video summarizing the whole concept. GE's Focus Forward Films.

I've done my homework and two things are not mentioned there:

How much will your panels cost?

Quote
We are not yet able to give numbers on cost. We are still in the midst of our Phase II contract with the Federal Highway Administration and we'll be analyzing our prototype costs near the end of our contract which ends in July, 2014. Afterward, we'll be able to do a production-style cost analysis
.

Secondary , they have talked about how a car can stop normally or steer on these things but what about tire usage?

In the end it might be that we pay lots of taxes on costly energy and we also have a few extra things to change more often due to these innovations.

All valid arguments.
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May 27, 2014, 10:43:12 PM
 #29

The test wasn't even remotely close to scientific. That test is like pointing a box fan at a house and saying it's tornado proof cause it didn't fall down.

A single bike skid mark, and sneaker wear onto the glass. If you've ever done that on an actual smooth surface, you could do the same thing (wipe off the sneaker / bike mark with water). Try it with a tire mark, see how long it takes.

Unless it's a hurricane, I don't see that helping.

Regardless, they now have the money to go through with more rigorous tests like they planned, and potentially even start the project on a small scale. I guess we'll find out soon enough how well this will work.  Smiley

bluefirecorp makes good points here, but its not like they are hiding those facts and have even address them.
bluefirecorp
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May 27, 2014, 10:48:46 PM
 #30

The test wasn't even remotely close to scientific. That test is like pointing a box fan at a house and saying it's tornado proof cause it didn't fall down.

A single bike skid mark, and sneaker wear onto the glass. If you've ever done that on an actual smooth surface, you could do the same thing (wipe off the sneaker / bike mark with water). Try it with a tire mark, see how long it takes.

Unless it's a hurricane, I don't see that helping.

Regardless, they now have the money to go through with more rigorous tests like they planned, and potentially even start the project on a small scale. I guess we'll find out soon enough how well this will work.  Smiley

bluefirecorp makes good points here, but its not like they are hiding those facts and have even address them.

Thank you. Personally, I don't see it being worth it to throw millions of dollars at these guys. A lot of these tests could be ran on a much cheaper platform. If it costs a million dollars to get a some-what working prototype (just needs to be 10ft by 10ft and support the weight of a car), then there's something off about the R&D.

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May 27, 2014, 11:18:10 PM
 #31

Whoa, whoa, whoa. We're including networking into this? So, that means there has to be some sort of network communication running along the panels. It can't just be a giant wireless mesh (there'd be way, way too much crosstalk; CSMA/CA wouldn't work with that many connections trying to communicate). This idea is more and more far-fetched.

Honestly, you don't think that the thieves would just jam the signal / cut the cable? Honestly, this idea is as feasible as a space elevator.

You seem bright enough to figure out how it might work. Instead of thinking "That can't be done..." Think "How would you do that?.... Its not so far fetched, your argument is equivalent to saying there are to many people using wireless internet for it to work.

On the second point, AS I STATED, it would take some time to remove enough panels to make it worth the trouble (kinda like the Bitcoin protocol, you can brute force the system and insert a double spend, but is it worth the millions of dollars it would take to do so.) OK, so to manage to steal a few panels before the state troopers show up. First you have to get to buy, steal or fabricate the tools (not just the special wrench to remove the nuts, but a hoist and a gas guzzling truck, maybe some friends to help out, you'll have to split you ill-gotten gains with them you know) so you can extract the panels ($$$.) Travel to the location of the theft ($GAS.) Once there you need to work as quickly as possible because you don't know if the closest trooper or road crew is only a mile or so away, so nothing can go wrong. The shielding for the WiFi wont be free by any means and adds more weight ($$.) And once you do all that, you have to transport those heavy panels some distance after extracting them ($GAS.) Oh... and you can't remove the WiFi card because the electronics are embedded into the glass so you'll have to keep the shielding on them... wait... if you leave the shielding on them, will you be able to use them through the shielding?... Ahh... you know what, just writing about this is getting to be not worth it, so actually doing it would be even worse... and god knows about the things I didn't consider could go wrong or the hidden security features that I hadn't a clue about... Never mind, just forget it, I'll just go buy my own.... Wink
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May 27, 2014, 11:23:46 PM
 #32

Thank you. Personally, I don't see it being worth it to throw millions of dollars at these guys. A lot of these tests could be ran on a much cheaper platform. If it costs a million dollars to get a some-what working prototype (just needs to be 10ft by 10ft and support the weight of a car), then there's something off about the R&D.

Well, I can see you point and your welcome. The only thing is, if people had that attitude all the time, I don't think the current state of technology would even exist. Its good that we can all make our own decisions about what kinds of things we want to support.

They have had done a lot of R&D thus far, they need more money to further the development, that's what they are asking for.
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May 28, 2014, 12:55:32 AM
 #33

Honestly, I'm surprised no one has raised this issue:  The most effective place for these road solar panels to work is in locations with low traffic (otherwise they will be blocked and not absorbing sunlight).  These same places are often sparsely populated.  There is a reason power plants are located near cities.  Power transmission is costly and leads to lost energy.  It would be far more cost effective to place panels in near cities so less are needed to provide the necessary energy.  (It should be noted that the production of photo voltaic cells is hardly a green activity.)   
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May 28, 2014, 01:03:53 AM
 #34

Can't be as bad as a pothole, surely?

Mind, if one was loose then perhaps it could be a problem. I'm sure that all angles will be covered when these are considered, if they haven't been already.

Very exciting tech, but I feel that we should be trying this out to replace tiles on roofs first of all Smiley

Actually, the cost of replacing or repairing a single panel is minimal compared to the savings that panel will produce:

1. Consider the cost of deicing roads. Solar Roadways deice themselves. [State and local agencies spend more than 2.3 billion dollars on snow and ice control operations annually. Each year, these road agencies also spend millions of dollars to repair infrastructure damage caused by snow and ice.]

2. Consider the cost of repairing a mile of highway simply because 10% of it is damaged. It may be the case that only 10% of the highway is damaged, but that damage is spread out over that entire mile of road, so you HAVE to replace the WHOLE MILE OF ROADWAY!! With these panels, you only need to replace the damaged part. Most of this damage is caused by snow, ice and rain and not wear and tear from vehicles driving on the surfaces. [MoDOT now spends about $163,000 to resurface one mile of a four-lane highway, while it takes $4.3 million to build one mile of a new section of a four-lane highway]

3. Consider the cost in lost work and productivity due to rerouting traffic around highway construction zones, delays, congestion, etc... [traffic congestion in the 439 U.S. urban areas. Highlights from the research illustrate the effects of the nation's traffic problems: Congestion costs continue to rise: measured in constant 2009 dollars, the cost of congestion has risen from $24 billion in 1982 to $115 billion in 2009. The total amount of wasted fuel in 2009 topped 3.9 billion gallons - equal to 130 days of flow in the Alaska Pipeline. Cost to the average commuter: $808 in 2009, compared to an inflation-adjusted $351 in 1982.]

4. Consider that Solar Roadways could, using conservative estimates, produce over three times the electricity that we currently use in the United States.

5. Consider the fact that the US (alone) spends billions of dollars to build and maintain road surfaces that just lay on the ground doing nothing but giving us a (relatively) smooth surface to drive on. That's billions of dollars that will be spent no matter what kind of roads we build, why not make those roads help pay for themselves?

6. Consider the cost of auto repairs caused by wear and tear due to the cumulative effects of poor road conditions.

7. Consider the cost to human life due to poor road conditions. Do we dare put a $ value to that?? How about the fact that these roads can notify drivers and emergency personnel of potential hazards like fallen trees, collapsed roadways, pedestrians, wildlife (deer, elk, moose, elephants,) accidents, drunk drivers... yup, drunk drivers.... [If a vehicle crosses the center line too many times within a given distance, a ring of LEDs can be drawn around the vehicle, which will travel with it indefinitely. This will warn other drivers of a potential danger and will alert law enforcement officials of a potential problem. It may just be someone tuning their radio, eating a Big Mac, reading a map, or applying makeup (we've seen all of these), but it may also be an impaired driver on his/her way to taking out a family of four. The Solar Roadways could drastically reduce the number of deaths/injuries caused by impaired driving. This too, ought to result in lowered insurance rates for all of us.]

As far as starting with rooftops instead, well, that would be a benefit if the cost is right. But the additional savings and benefits involved in building Solar Roadways far exceeds those rooftop benefits even if rooftop solar panels are economically feasible.
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May 28, 2014, 01:06:24 AM
 #35

Honestly, I'm surprised no one has raised this issue:  The most effective place for these road solar panels to work is in locations with low traffic (otherwise they will be blocked and not absorbing sunlight).  These same places are often sparsely populated.  There is a reason power plants are located near cities.  Power transmission is costly and leads to lost energy.  It would be far more cost effective to place panels in near cities so less are needed to provide the necessary energy.  (It should be noted that the production of photo voltaic cells is hardly a green activity.)   

Your first point is addressed on the Solar Roadways website. The second point is valid.
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