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Author Topic: Bitcoin vs. All Other Coins, are they hurting Bitcoin?  (Read 2232 times)
Mitchell
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May 23, 2014, 07:47:16 AM
 #21

Right. That's why I don't expect great ideas to be easily or at all incorporated into Bitcoin code.
Changing mining algorithms is not necessary for Bitcoin. The network hashing power is way to big right now for a quick 51% attack. There are other ways to prevent that from happening, so why would we change the mining algo and destroy a large part of our hashing power? I believe that they will implement great idea's, just not new mining algo's.

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May 23, 2014, 07:50:01 AM
 #22

Right. That's why I don't expect great ideas to be easily or at all incorporated into Bitcoin code.
Changing mining algorithms is not necessary for Bitcoin. The network hashing power is way to big right now for a quick 51% attack. There are other ways to prevent that from happening, so why would we change the mining algo and destroy a large part of our hashing power? I believe that they will implement great idea's, just not new mining algo's.

Imagine a scenario where the biggest 3-4 easily identifiable mining pools/large mining farms are targeted by a large enough power. What happens then? The network is crippled and can't function properly or at all. This would not be possible if there were more than one independent mining algo.

How about the difficulty adjusting not every 10 days but after each block. That's another good idea. Will they implement and accept it? Probably not. If half or more of the hash rate is down for some reason, how long would it take to find blocks with such a slow adjusting difficulty?
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May 23, 2014, 07:59:47 AM
 #23

Right. That's why I don't expect great ideas to be easily or at all incorporated into Bitcoin code.
Changing mining algorithms is not necessary for Bitcoin. The network hashing power is way to big right now for a quick 51% attack. There are other ways to prevent that from happening, so why would we change the mining algo and destroy a large part of our hashing power? I believe that they will implement great idea's, just not new mining algo's.

Imagine a scenario where the biggest 3-4 easily identifiable mining pools/large mining farms are targeted by a large enough power. What happens then? The network is crippled and can't function properly or at all. This would not be possible if there were more than one independent mining algo.

How about the difficulty adjusting not every 10 days but after each block. That's another good idea. Will they implement and accept it? Probably not. If half or more of the hash rate is down for some reason, how long would it take to find blocks with such a slow adjusting difficulty?
If it needs to be changed it will be. There is no reason to change stuff when it's not needed. Getting more then 51% to agree on a small, currently irrelevant, change costs way to much effort. And even if the network gets attacked, I know that they will add something that contradicts that. I dare to bet that they already have something ready in case it goes wrong. Pushing something that might be handy is just not worth the effort it takes and how much it helps.

I mean look at the Heartbleed problem, they fixed it in no-time, pushed it to the network and everyone adapted it. It's a great example on how things would go if Bitcoins does go to shit, because of a 51% attack.

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May 23, 2014, 03:01:40 PM
 #24

If half or more of the hash rate is down for some reason, how long would it take to find blocks with such a slow adjusting difficulty?

This is not a hard question to think through.

Assume we lose 1/2 of all our hashing power - let's call this the "worst case scenario"
The average confirmation time would double from 10 minutes to 20 minutes.
The adjustment period would go from about 10-14 days to 20-28 days.
The network would adjust in about 20-28 days and we would be back to 10 minute confirmations.

Although a bit of a PITA for maybe a month this is certainly not anything I worry about and remember this is the worst case scenario. 

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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May 23, 2014, 04:44:18 PM
 #25

I wrote a poem about it:

Bitcoins are it
Shitcoins are shit

lol... that was classic. All these alt-coins must be officially renamed to shitcoins. That said, I don't know why people are using these copycat coins. What is the advantage in using them?

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May 24, 2014, 02:58:23 AM
 #26

If half or more of the hash rate is down for some reason, how long would it take to find blocks with such a slow adjusting difficulty?

This is not a hard question to think through.

Assume we lose 1/2 of all our hashing power - let's call this the "worst case scenario"
The average confirmation time would double from 10 minutes to 20 minutes.
The adjustment period would go from about 10-14 days to 20-28 days.
The network would adjust in about 20-28 days and we would be back to 10 minute confirmations.

Although a bit of a PITA for maybe a month this is certainly not anything I worry about and remember this is the worst case scenario. 

Well, if this is all accompanied by the press that other crypto currencies are doing ok and Bitcoin is flawed by design, don't you think people would start dumping their Bitcoins and joining other cryptos, because they have those 2 issues sorted unlike Bitcoin? I mean the worst case scenario (which can be worse than half the hash rate by the way), can turn even worse, as when the price drops due to investors leaving, miners would be leaving too, hence hash rate drops even more, that'd be a vicious circle. I am not spreading fud here, just trying to raise awareness that without flexibility of miners and developers this is an accident waiting to happen. You can put your heads in the sand as long as you want, but you know I am right.
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May 24, 2014, 03:16:37 AM
 #27

but you know I am right.
No, in fact, I know you are wrong.

I am betting on it and have put my money where my mouth is.  I am heavily invested in Bitcoin and do not own a single alt coin.  Talk to me next year at this time and we will see who was right.  I expect I will have made a tidy profit and, assuming you are investing in these fly-by-night coins, you will have lost.

List all the coins you are heavily invested in here:

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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May 24, 2014, 03:19:49 AM
 #28

Well, if this is all accompanied by the press that other crypto currencies are doing ok and Bitcoin is flawed by design, don't you think people would start dumping their Bitcoins and joining other cryptos, blah, blah, blah

Of course they would, they always do, and that would be fantastic.  That is what we old farts call a "buying op".

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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May 24, 2014, 04:31:32 AM
 #29

No, in fact, I know you are wrong.

I am betting on it and have put my money where my mouth is.  I am heavily invested in Bitcoin and do not own a single alt coin.  Talk to me next year at this time and we will see who was right.  I expect I will have made a tidy profit and, assuming you are investing in these fly-by-night coins, you will have lost.

List all the coins you are heavily invested in here:

Ok, Dogecoin, NXT and Myriadcoin. Hopefully I don't forget this thread next year around this time. If I do and you don't please give me a friendly reminder Smiley
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May 24, 2014, 02:01:07 PM
 #30

Doge needs to stop issuing more coins or at least slow it down alot.   The market cap might go up maybe but the price isnt likely to
If you are asking if altcoins do harm, I think most harm is done between each other.   So they promote competition and innovation and at little cost in theory unlike btc where the hardware has become specialised, these are coins trying out all sorts.  No doubt the success of one altcoin is to the detriment of another as the market is quite small in comparison to the main brand BTC

Two main coins I can think of are darkcoin and blackcoin, both are trying to advance features or dynamics bitcoin does not have.   I dont think they'll replace but in a years time they could have grown more depending on if they are then providing greater utility then plain bitcoin
Quote
biggest 3-4 easily identifiable mining pools/large mining farms are targeted

The answer to that is people often belong to more then one pool.   The pools are quite central, blocks come from only 100 IP apparently but the miners themselves are still distributed.   If you told me 60% of the network is at 100 factories/farms and so could be occupied and taken down, then I would be worried.  
    I dont think thats the case but I wonder if btc is heading towards that flawed overly centralised situation.   Economies of scale are great and all but its easily a flaw here

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May 24, 2014, 06:03:55 PM
 #31

Why is anonymity (did I spell that right?) so important? If you're not doing anything illegal or some kind of perv, then why would you care if people can track your purchases?

Taxes.

Paying taxes is immoral.

Taxes (and fiat currency) are used to support war and the murder/imprisonment of innocent civilians.

Using Bitcoin takes away part of that power.


Paying taxes is immoral - yeah - because you've never used roads before, or streetlights, or electricity, or not have to deal with terrorist attacks. What do you think your taxes go to? Taxes support war to protect YOU, and the murder/imprisonment of innocent civilians does happen but is extremely rare and is getting rarer and is much better than the alternative of keeping all criminals on the street. Please use a condom.

I pay for my electricity, no taxes needed.

Streets are supported by user fees. I have no problem with those.
 
I have lived in undeveloped areas of Philippines and Kenya, roads are usually built by locals without resorting to taxes. When I was young kid and part of some dumb religious cult up in the mountains, some of them got tired of there being no road. So a couple of them got together, pooled some money, hired a bulldozer, and guess what? We had a road without taxes or coercion.

As for the war on terrorism, I am more likely to get killed in a car accident than by a terrorist. A long time back, I went into the mountains with some girl I was planning to marry on Mindanao Island in the Philippines to meet her family. Discovered that her brother was in the MILF, he even let me shoot his AK-47 for fun. I never felt safer.

As for innocent people killed, I will just post a wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

As for condoms, I refuse to use them. Did make my Kenyan wife take an HIV test though.

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May 24, 2014, 06:46:08 PM
 #32

Discovered that her brother was in the MILF

Ooops, you meant her mother not her brother, right?

I believe her brother would be a BILF, not sure because I am not into that sort of thing.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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May 24, 2014, 08:07:18 PM
 #33

IMO maybe it's hurt bitcoin but it doesn't hurt cryptocurrency world. If there's no competition than there won't be step forward.
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May 24, 2014, 11:57:25 PM
 #34

Other coins help to attract more attention into the crypto currency world seemingly to a vacuum.
Even if we don't believe into other currencies, one thing is clear for me : they don't eat bitcoin's pie, they are cooking a bigger cake.

Bitcoin address 15sYbVpRh6dyWycZMwPdxJWD4xbfxReeHe
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May 24, 2014, 11:58:38 PM
 #35

but you know I am right.
No, in fact, I know you are wrong.

I am betting on it and have put my money where my mouth is.  I am heavily invested in Bitcoin and do not own a single alt coin.  Talk to me next year at this time and we will see who was right.  I expect I will have made a tidy profit and, assuming you are investing in these fly-by-night coins, you will have lost.

List all the coins you are heavily invested in here:

Right now I'm in Bitcoin and DarkCoin.  I believe in hedging. I think we are simply too early in the technology cycle to claim a victor, and some of the altcoins have potential. Sure, it's most likely that Bitcoin will end up on top, but remember:

Vinyl => Tape => CD => MP3 => Streaming

Friendster => Myspace => Facebook

Who knows what a year will bring.
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May 25, 2014, 04:57:36 AM
 #36

Discovered that her brother was in the MILF

Ooops, you meant her mother not her brother, right?

I believe her brother would be a BILF, not sure because I am not into that sort of thing.

Haha, I guess MILF has more than one meaning.

In this case: Moro Islamic Liberation Front

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_Islamic_Liberation_Front


Wolf Rainer
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May 25, 2014, 11:16:48 AM
 #37

The alternative cryptocurrencies helps bitcoin promotion. A lot of people cames to the cryptocoins world thanks of the difution of alt coins.
Harley997
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June 10, 2014, 02:57:11 AM
 #38

Most altcoins can provide very little value over what Bitcoin can provide.

These coins are much less secure then the Bitcoin network as 51% attacks are not uncommon on smaller altcoins.

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June 10, 2014, 12:24:44 PM
 #39

I'm a noob, I admit that. But when I get interested in something, I immerse myself into it and catch on pretty quickly.
I have a fundamental problem in theory, which I cannot work out.
When I think about the long-term success or failure of Bitcoin, it seems to me that other cryptocurrencies are hurting that possible success.
Now the mainstream is starting to accept Bitcoin. The branding is showing up everywhere. There are bitcoin ATMs, etc.
And then another coin, a better coin, maybe, in quality, but not a popular coin with the mainstream, starts to rise in value and overcome bitcoin.
Then what? Most people are just getting used to the idea of Bitcoin, then they are going to have the rug pulled from under them, when Bitcoin is beat out by another coin...with a different look, different branding, and maybe not as acceptable to the mainstream as bitcoin.
Now are the going to have redesign all their ATM machines for this new coin? Take down all the Bitcoin symbols and put up the branding for the new coin? How is that going to work exactly?

Seems that bitcoin has to stay number one to be accepted on a wide scale, or everything else is lost. Any feedback?

I think not
but like litecoin and dogecoin like ny enough coins pupoler


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June 10, 2014, 12:37:17 PM
 #40

Dogecoins have involved thousands of people in cryptocurrencies and have built up a nice community, I don't think they are hurting Bitcoin at all.

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