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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1107004 times)
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June 13, 2018, 02:13:16 PM
 #8981

used Bittrex recently, because Poloniex had problems with CLAMs. But you have to convert it first to/from Bitcoin.

About what problems you talk? Just yesterday withdraw around 3000 clams from poloniex.

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June 15, 2018, 02:14:24 PM
 #8982

I have heard a few complaints about yobit not withdrawing clam requests. any news on this?
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June 15, 2018, 05:11:20 PM
 #8983

I have heard a few complaints about yobit not withdrawing clam requests. any news on this?

on yobit clams withdraw impossible for a very long time, I tried unsuccessfully myself many times.

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June 15, 2018, 08:37:43 PM
 #8984

I have heard a few complaints about yobit not withdrawing clam requests. any news on this?

Polo works until it doesn't.

I had problems getting 1000 clams out a few months back, but eventually got them after 45 days of waiting...

I've been using bittrex and Luckygames.co for buying clams.  I prefer Luckygames instant withdraws and no ID requirements.

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June 16, 2018, 09:54:02 PM
 #8985


Thanks, but it doesn't work for me. As soon as I try to run the CLAM client I get an error and it quits:

Quote
2018-05-25 12:43:59 Clam version v1.4.17-139-gf0707d3 (2017-04-10 17:28:15 +0000)
2018-05-25 12:43:59 Using OpenSSL version OpenSSL 1.0.1f 6 Jan 2014
2018-05-25 12:43:59 Default data directory /home/user/.clam
2018-05-25 12:43:59 Used data directory /home/user/.clam
2018-05-25 12:43:59 init message: Verifying database integrity...
2018-05-25 12:43:59 dbenv.open LogDir=/home/user/.clam/database ErrorFile=/home/user/.clam/db.log
2018-05-25 12:44:00 init message: Loading block index...
2018-05-25 12:44:00 Opening LevelDB in /home/user/.clam/txleveldb
2018-05-25 12:44:00 Transaction index version is 70509
2018-05-25 12:44:00 Opened LevelDB successfully
2018-05-25 12:44:00 ERROR: LoadBlockIndex() : unable to unserialize record : try running with -reindex
2018-05-25 12:44:00 : Error loading block index database : try running with -reindex
2018-05-25 12:44:00 Shutdown : In progress...
2018-05-25 12:44:00 StopNode()
2018-05-25 12:44:00 Shutdown : done

I used my own blk0001.dat, with this sha256sum:

510d0cabb4208d9a545a0e05fab2c0c29c225d699e0601a16b2891facbd2ce98  blk0001.dat

I guess it's the same as yours. Other than that I'm guessing we are using incompatible versions of leveldb.

Edit: how does the start of your debug.log look when it's failing? Do you see a different "transaction index version" number?

CLAM coming to https://freiexchange.com when? =)


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June 25, 2018, 04:05:54 AM
 #8986

Hi Clam community.  

I quite like the Clam project so I wanted to help secure the network so I bought 30k clams to stake with.  On average my node gets around 24 clams a day. The problem however is that I lose between 3-8 Clams/day again, they disapear shortly after I found them and they show up as 'Conflicted' in the transaction list.  So on bad days I lose about 1/3 of my yield which is pretty frustrating to say the least.  Any suggestions?

I use the latest Clam client (1.4.17). WIN10.  Fast internet connection, 7th Gen. Intel i5,  fast SSD, 32 GB DDR4 RAM.


As a side question, why does the difficulty fluctuate so much compared to other staking coins?  Clams difficulty makes these cycles between 1.1 million and 1.8-2 million during a 24h period.  For a new person looking into staking clams it seems important to first follow the difficulty for weeks or you might be in for a surprise, underestimating the difficulty.  

I hope someone can help me fix my staking problem.  

Thank you.
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June 25, 2018, 05:12:52 PM
 #8987

I quite like the Clam project so I wanted to help secure the network so I bought 30k clams to stake with.  On average my node gets around 24 clams a day. The problem however is that I lose between 3-8 Clams/day again, they disapear shortly after I found them and they show up as 'Conflicted' in the transaction list.  So on bad days I lose about 1/3 of my yield which is pretty frustrating to say the least.  Any suggestions?

You lost out to other nodes that also mined the same block.  It's just one of those annoying things that PoS is infamous for.

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June 25, 2018, 05:30:50 PM
 #8988

I quite like the Clam project so I wanted to help secure the network so I bought 30k clams to stake with.  On average my node gets around 24 clams a day. The problem however is that I lose between 3-8 Clams/day again, they disapear shortly after I found them and they show up as 'Conflicted' in the transaction list.  So on bad days I lose about 1/3 of my yield which is pretty frustrating to say the least.  Any suggestions?

You lost out to other nodes that also mined the same block.  It's just one of those annoying things that PoS is infamous for.

Thanks for the reply bro.

So I lose 1/3 of the yield I'm 'entitled' to?  That's just terrible.  So I have to buy like a bunch of Computers that act as support nodes, 50 of them or something, so when I find a clam the other 49 (within the home network) immediately broadcast it at almost the same time to the outside.  And so if the outside competition has less nodes, I win the Clam.

So it seems like an armsrace for support nodes, I wish I knew this before starting this moneysink.  Somebody should put that info on the first page in the clam introduction.


The guy from Just-Dice probably knows this and has an army of support nodes running. So it's basically his coin and newbs like me can only lose their money/profits.  
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June 25, 2018, 06:37:38 PM
 #8989

I quite like the Clam project so I wanted to help secure the network so I bought 30k clams to stake with.  On average my node gets around 24 clams a day. The problem however is that I lose between 3-8 Clams/day again, they disapear shortly after I found them and they show up as 'Conflicted' in the transaction list.  So on bad days I lose about 1/3 of my yield which is pretty frustrating to say the least.  Any suggestions?

You lost out to other nodes that also mined the same block.  It's just one of those annoying things that PoS is infamous for.

Thanks for the reply bro.

So I lose 1/3 of the yield I'm 'entitled' to?  That's just terrible.  So I have to buy like a bunch of Computers that act as support nodes, 50 of them or something, so when I find a clam the other 49 (within the home network) immediately broadcast it at almost the same time to the outside.  And so if the outside competition has less nodes, I win the Clam.

So it seems like an armsrace for support nodes, I wish I knew this before starting this moneysink.  Somebody should put that info on the first page in the clam introduction.


The guy from Just-Dice probably knows this and has an army of support nodes running. So it's basically his coin and newbs like me can only lose their money/profits.  


    I don't believe your actually losing anything.  The block that ended up orphaned, will simply continue to stake at the same weight it had prior to the orphan.  Next check your system clock, and make sure it's synced to an accurate time source.  I don't think having extra nodes would end up helping you.  I believe once you get a stake, the block gets a time stamp.  The earliest time stamp wins.     

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June 25, 2018, 06:45:28 PM
 #8990

I quite like the Clam project so I wanted to help secure the network so I bought 30k clams to stake with.  On average my node gets around 24 clams a day. The problem however is that I lose between 3-8 Clams/day again, they disapear shortly after I found them and they show up as 'Conflicted' in the transaction list.  So on bad days I lose about 1/3 of my yield which is pretty frustrating to say the least.  Any suggestions?

You lost out to other nodes that also mined the same block.  It's just one of those annoying things that PoS is infamous for.

Thanks for the reply bro.

So I lose 1/3 of the yield I'm 'entitled' to?  That's just terrible.  So I have to buy like a bunch of Computers that act as support nodes, 50 of them or something, so when I find a clam the other 49 (within the home network) immediately broadcast it at almost the same time to the outside.  And so if the outside competition has less nodes, I win the Clam.

So it seems like an armsrace for support nodes, I wish I knew this before starting this moneysink.  Somebody should put that info on the first page in the clam introduction.


The guy from Just-Dice probably knows this and has an army of support nodes running. So it's basically his coin and newbs like me can only lose their money/profits.  


    I don't believe your actually losing anything.  The block that ended up orphaned, will simply continue to stake at the same weight it had prior to the orphan.  Next check your system clock, and make sure it's synced to an accurate time source.  I don't think having extra nodes would end up helping you.  I believe once you get a stake, the block gets a time stamp.  The earliest time stamp wins.    

Thanks for the tip on checking the system clock, I'll check on that right away.


I added 4 support nodes, so I will get back with my findings coming days.  First impression seems I lose less today, but might be coincidence we'll see, I only just finished installing them as I prepared for this test a few days ago, took some time to install the clients. So it's too soon to draw any conclusions.  If they get time stamped, it shouldn't make any difference like you say.  

EDIT: well it seems I do lose 1/3 of my profit as the difficulty/my stake = find time (on average 24 a day, so when 8 disapear I lose right?)  As in the protocol itself indicates I should get 24 a day but I only get 16 because 8 get taken away, how is that not losing profit/losing my reward for help securing the chain?  I wouldn't bother if it's like 1 clam once in a while, but losing between 3-8 out of 24/day is not acceptable.
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June 25, 2018, 07:14:16 PM
 #8991

I quite like the Clam project so I wanted to help secure the network so I bought 30k clams to stake with.  On average my node gets around 24 clams a day. The problem however is that I lose between 3-8 Clams/day again, they disapear shortly after I found them and they show up as 'Conflicted' in the transaction list.  So on bad days I lose about 1/3 of my yield which is pretty frustrating to say the least.  Any suggestions?

You lost out to other nodes that also mined the same block.  It's just one of those annoying things that PoS is infamous for.

Thanks for the reply bro.

So I lose 1/3 of the yield I'm 'entitled' to?  That's just terrible.  So I have to buy like a bunch of Computers that act as support nodes, 50 of them or something, so when I find a clam the other 49 (within the home network) immediately broadcast it at almost the same time to the outside.  And so if the outside competition has less nodes, I win the Clam.

So it seems like an armsrace for support nodes, I wish I knew this before starting this moneysink.  Somebody should put that info on the first page in the clam introduction.


The guy from Just-Dice probably knows this and has an army of support nodes running. So it's basically his coin and newbs like me can only lose their money/profits.  


    I don't believe your actually losing anything.  The block that ended up orphaned, will simply continue to stake at the same weight it had prior to the orphan.  Next check your system clock, and make sure it's synced to an accurate time source.  I don't think having extra nodes would end up helping you.  I believe once you get a stake, the block gets a time stamp.  The earliest time stamp wins.    

Thanks for the tip on checking the system clock, I'll check on that right away.


I added 4 support nodes, so I will get back with my findings coming days.  First impression seems I lose less today, but might be coincidence we'll see, I only just finished installing them as I prepared for this test a few days ago, took some time to install the clients. So it's too soon to draw any conclusions.  If they get time stamped, it shouldn't make any difference like you say.  

EDIT: well it seems I do lose 1/3 of my profit as the difficulty/my stake = find time (on average 24 a day, so when 8 disapear I lose right?)  As in the protocol itself indicates I should get 24 a day but I only get 16 because 8 get taken away, how is that not losing profit/losing my reward for help securing the chain?  I wouldn't bother if it's like 1 clam once in a while, but losing between 3-8 out of 24/day is not acceptable.

   You should get 24 valid stakes per day.  If you got 8 orphans, you should see 24 +8 or 32 transactions, of which only 24 are valid.  But this is just on average.  So I wouldn't look at just one day at a time. look at your average over a week, or 2, or a month.  That should show you closer to the 24 per day average.  I don't stake Clams anymore, but when I did I remember the daily average fluctuated quite a bit, but seemed to average out when you looked at it over the longer periods.   

   Let us all know if adding the nodes helped or not. 

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June 25, 2018, 07:28:59 PM
 #8992

I quite like the Clam project so I wanted to help secure the network so I bought 30k clams to stake with.  On average my node gets around 24 clams a day. The problem however is that I lose between 3-8 Clams/day again, they disapear shortly after I found them and they show up as 'Conflicted' in the transaction list.  So on bad days I lose about 1/3 of my yield which is pretty frustrating to say the least.  Any suggestions?

You lost out to other nodes that also mined the same block.  It's just one of those annoying things that PoS is infamous for.

Thanks for the reply bro.

So I lose 1/3 of the yield I'm 'entitled' to?  That's just terrible.  So I have to buy like a bunch of Computers that act as support nodes, 50 of them or something, so when I find a clam the other 49 (within the home network) immediately broadcast it at almost the same time to the outside.  And so if the outside competition has less nodes, I win the Clam.

So it seems like an armsrace for support nodes, I wish I knew this before starting this moneysink.  Somebody should put that info on the first page in the clam introduction.


The guy from Just-Dice probably knows this and has an army of support nodes running. So it's basically his coin and newbs like me can only lose their money/profits.  


    I don't believe your actually losing anything.  The block that ended up orphaned, will simply continue to stake at the same weight it had prior to the orphan.  Next check your system clock, and make sure it's synced to an accurate time source.  I don't think having extra nodes would end up helping you.  I believe once you get a stake, the block gets a time stamp.  The earliest time stamp wins.    

Thanks for the tip on checking the system clock, I'll check on that right away.


I added 4 support nodes, so I will get back with my findings coming days.  First impression seems I lose less today, but might be coincidence we'll see, I only just finished installing them as I prepared for this test a few days ago, took some time to install the clients. So it's too soon to draw any conclusions.  If they get time stamped, it shouldn't make any difference like you say.  

EDIT: well it seems I do lose 1/3 of my profit as the difficulty/my stake = find time (on average 24 a day, so when 8 disapear I lose right?)  As in the protocol itself indicates I should get 24 a day but I only get 16 because 8 get taken away, how is that not losing profit/losing my reward for help securing the chain?  I wouldn't bother if it's like 1 clam once in a while, but losing between 3-8 out of 24/day is not acceptable.

   You should get 24 valid stakes per day.  If you got 8 orphans, you should see 24 +8 or 32 transactions, of which only 24 are valid.  But this is just on average.  So I wouldn't look at just one day at a time. look at your average over a week, or 2, or a month.  That should show you closer to the 24 per day average.  I don't stake Clams anymore, but when I did I remember the daily average fluctuated quite a bit, but seemed to average out when you looked at it over the longer periods.    

   Let us all know if adding the nodes helped or not.  

The problem is it doesn't make up for the orphans so I just see the '24' transactions which includes the ones I lost, there are no '32' in the list of transactions at the end of the day.  Been staking for like 2 weeks so I have data of 14 days and it averages out on 24/day (including the lost ones).

I can already confirm that the extra nodes theory is not valid, I already lost 2 again in a few hours.  So my apologies if I stepped on someone's toes for entertaining the idea.

I changed the clock now, hopefully that fixes it. If so I'll send you a pm and you can give me your bitcoin donation address if you want, so I can express my appreciation.  Cheers.  
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June 26, 2018, 05:24:31 AM
 #8993

Changed the clock to nist.gov from internet time, but it didn't fix the problem unfortunately.  I already lost a couple more today. Sad

Interestingly, I don't have the problem on Radium which I'm staking as well (on the same pc) and it has a 1 minute block time as well if I'm not mistaken.  So similar staking coins, but staking Clams I lose 3-8 per day, while I haven't lost a single Rads in months.  Both have QT-based wallets.

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June 26, 2018, 09:26:58 AM
 #8994

Interestingly, I don't have the problem on Radium .... Both have QT-based wallets.

Nothing significant about that, they are both clones of Bitcoin, so they both inherit the Bitcoin QT wallet. Perhaps of more signifiance is a clear indicator that the coins use different codebases, vitiating the relevance of anything other than a detailed technical comparative analysis.

Quote
Radium 1.4.7 includes the following updates:

Improved peer discovery and sync speed
Partial bitcoin 0.11 code rebase
Increased op_return size
Fix supply hard cap

Cheers

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June 26, 2018, 09:53:52 AM
 #8995

used Bittrex recently, because Poloniex had problems with CLAMs. But you have to convert it first to/from Bitcoin.

About what problems you talk? Just yesterday withdraw around 3000 clams from poloniex.
Me too, I withdrawed my coins from Poloniex exchange yesterday without issues.
Yesterday, CLAM did not witnessed any maintenance in Poloniex exchange.
It is not really related, but today bitcoin has performed well and might keep rising next hours.

Stipend ● the Freelancer's Currency
▬▬ ● ● PoS / Masternodes ● ● ▬▬ (https://stipend.me/)
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June 26, 2018, 03:05:53 PM
 #8996

Ok so I received a message here from someone who ran into the same problem with staking Clams.  No solution was found and I got a reason why this might be the case.


@Dooglus:  You must have done something to have an advantage picking up Clams that other people deserve?  Apparently you're a skilled dev.  Decentralization should be important for the health of the 'ecosystem' which is basically Just-Dice and speculation at this point.


I had high hopes for Clams, Clams as in beach/ocean.  Our plan was to use the cryptocurrency to help clean beaches/oceans of plastic which is a hot topic.  1 Clam = 1-5kg of plastic or something, just as an example to explain.  So if people bring in 1 kg of plastic, they get 1 Clam as reward.  We would give it a proper real life use case.  I'm a member of the Green Party in the UK, the party doesn't like bitcoin because it uses tons of electricity.  So Clams would have been ideal to experiment with instead for this project.

Unfortunately as things look now, we can't use a coin that's potentially being manipulated by a dev for obvious reasons. We can't sell that to the public.

I'm waiting for Dooglus' response on the matter before I write a report about the state of Clams.  I also PM'd him, but no response so far.
 

Best regards,


G.
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June 26, 2018, 03:33:55 PM
 #8997

Ok so I received a message here from someone who ran into the same problem with staking Clams.  No solution was found and I got a reason why this might be the case.


@Dooglus:  You must have done something to have an advantage picking up Clams that other people deserve?  Apparently you're a skilled dev.  Decentralization should be important for the health of the 'ecosystem' which is basically Just-Dice and speculation at this point.


I had high hopes for Clams, Clams as in beach/ocean.  Our plan was to use the cryptocurrency to help clean beaches/oceans of plastic which is a hot topic.  1 Clam = 1-5kg of plastic or something, just as an example to explain.  So if people bring in 1 kg of plastic, they get 1 Clam as reward.  We would give it a proper real life use case.  I'm a member of the Green Party in the UK, the party doesn't like bitcoin because it uses tons of electricity.  So Clams would have been ideal to experiment with instead for this project.

Unfortunately as things look now, we can't use a coin that's potentially being manipulated by a dev for obvious reasons. We can't sell that to the public.

I'm waiting for Dooglus' response on the matter before I write a report about the state of Clams.  I also PM'd him, but no response so far.
 

Best regards,


G.

Had a problem with many orphans blocks back when I staked this coin than I gave up. Hope to read a valid answer from the dev
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June 26, 2018, 03:35:18 PM
 #8998

Our plan was to use the cryptocurrency to help clean beaches/oceans of plastic which is a hot topic.
Perhaps if, instead of making heroic assumptions, you'd raised the idea with the community first, you would have been apprised of pertinent factors.

Quote
Unfortunately as things look now, we can't use a coin that's potentially being manipulated by a dev for obvious reasons. We can't sell that to the public.
Could you explain exactly what magical powers you think a dev possesses in order to secretly affect the operation of open source code?

Quote
I'm waiting for Dooglus' response on the matter before I write a report about the state of Clams.  I also PM'd him, but no response so far.

Hardly surprising as dooglus is a contributor (which would have been made clear to you, had you the courtesy to ask, see pt one above) and is perfectly free to make his contrbutions (or not) as and when he sees fit. He also owns/runs JustDice, so has a user's interest in the functioning of the coin, hence the contributions.

I recommend you waste no further time and move straight to the report. If you care to make it public here, it's possible that someone will care sufficiently to draft a response that may be of interest to other members of your organisation.

Cheers

Graham
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June 26, 2018, 03:46:16 PM
 #8999

Our plan was to use the cryptocurrency to help clean beaches/oceans of plastic which is a hot topic.
Perhaps if, instead of making heroic assumptions, you'd raised the idea with the community first, you would have been apprised of pertinent factors.

Quote
Unfortunately as things look now, we can't use a coin that's potentially being manipulated by a dev for obvious reasons. We can't sell that to the public.
Could you explain exactly what magical powers you think a dev possesses in order to secretly affect the operation of open source code?

Quote
I'm waiting for Dooglus' response on the matter before I write a report about the state of Clams.  I also PM'd him, but no response so far.

Hardly surprising as dooglus is a contributor (which would have been made clear to you, had you the courtesy to ask, see pt one above) and is perfectly free to make his contrbutions (or not) as and when he sees fit. He also owns/runs JustDice, so has a user's interest in the functioning of the coin, hence the contributions.

I recommend you waste no further time and move straight to the report. If you care to make it public here, it's possible that someone will care sufficiently to draft a response that may be of interest to other members of your organisation.

Cheers

Graham


So who went through the open source code to check it? And why is this problem not being addressed in the past?

Yes we would have asked the community at the right time, I'm here to check out the tech first.  Not that it is needed to ask permission as it's open source, anybody can use it right? Anybody who wanted to contribute to the project would be welcome.  We just needed to farm the Clams to give to people.


One would think a real life use case like this would be welcome as I read on the Clams Github that they wanted to reinvent Clams but clearly had no fresh ideas as they posted this in 2016. 


I'll take your advice and move straight forward to the report.    

Plenty of other coins to check out you know.  Not our loss really.
 


Cheers,

G.

 
gjhiggins
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June 26, 2018, 04:21:00 PM
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So who went through the open source code to check it? And why is this problem not being addressed in the past?
Whomsoever wanted to. Are you offering to help fund an analysis or a bugfix or are you expecting to benefit from the work of others?

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Yes we would have asked the community at the right time, I'm here to check out the tech first.
In an offensively strident, demanding and challenging manner, making a boatload of false assumptions that you never bothered checking and which acted to exclude you from information about the ongoing development of the codebase.

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Plenty of other coins to check out you know.  Not our loss really.
Pish. If the idea had merit in the first place, then it still does. Are you really prepared to compromise your project rather than adopt a more socially-aware approach? Perhaps this might help position you better in your efforts (here or elsewhere, if the latter, then good luck - genuinely): https://minkiz.co/library/a-different-perspective-on-cryptocurrency.html

Cheers

Graham
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