XBTec Announce. New ASIC manufacturer.

[hdbuck]

can we have more info about that plz XBTec?



what would you consider a serious customer for the custom 0.5-5Ph mining rig with immersion cooling system?

When is it supposed to ship? 

[1713509177]

1713509177

[1713509177]

1713509177

[Easy2Mine]

On the way to Shenzhen

Today I have a meeting with Jura, one of the members of XBTec.
We will meet at Starbucks in Coco park, Futian district in Shenzhen.
I went to the wrong Starbucks, there are actually 3 Starbucks in that area.
So it was my mistake.


The wrong Starbucks.

From my call log, it shows that Jura is a very puntual person.
Communicating via phone and WeChat, Jura found out at wich Starbucks I went to and move as fast as he can to my location.
His handshake is firm and is not a person who is hiding something.
He looks very young untill I ask his age, he is much older than he looks like.
My assumption was right, he is indeed Russian.
He can speak fluently Mandarin Chinese and he can write and read it too.
We spoke mainly English wich each other.

Jura is the PR and salesperson of XBTec.
He talk to me what kind of chip was used for their miner.
I saw some pictures on his Iphone.
Lots of things are in final stage.
They do not accept money for pre orders, until they have a working and tested device on hands. After tests and getting evidence and proofs that their miner exist and  working stable, they will start to accept pre order payments with clear terms and time of assembling.

I will be one of the first person to get to see the final product. I will then make pictures and post them on bitcointalk.
I didn't ask for a copy of pictures on his phone, I will shoot them myself, I need to touch and see it with my own eyes that
the miner works as it should be.
Dogie will get a miner to do a full review to prove the miner exist and work as it should be.
Why Dogie again? He deseverd it, he already did a lot of excellent reviews, just check his threads if you haven't seen it yet.

We also talk about the design flaws of their competitors.
How they solve noise and other stuff.
I will not put some secrets I have heard on Bitcointalk that can used by their competitors.
This give them a chance to be better than their competitor.
The more competition, the better for us miners.
I will have another meeting with them next week.
This time with more members of XBTec inclusive the engineers.
I will also post about this meeting.

In the meantime, my brother in law get bored, because he don't understand English, so I call it a quit after a nice 2 hour talk with Jura.


On the left, it's me and on the right, it's Jura.

After the meeting with Jura, I went with my brother in law to one of the shopping malls with electronic parts.
Looking for electronic parts.
Shenzhen is really a Walhalla for electronic parts, you can find really everything you need, but the sales persons there are exorbitant trying to sell parts you don't need or not the right parts.
When we almost left the mall without succes, I found what I was looking for and bought the stuff I needed just minutes before the mall closed.

[XBTec]

hdbuck, we will upload additional details for immersion cooling system, when time is come.

Easy2Mine, thanks for your review

[psahx]

You state, you DO NOT ACCEPT PRE-ORDERS, right?

How come, that on your Russian webpage, you are offering pre-orders for ASICMINER Gen3 (2 Thash/second), with option to deliver on/before July 20 for $2800 and on/before June 30 for $3400?

Forgot to mention, you have already sold-out a pre-order for 150 pcs, June 17 delivery.

http://www.xbtec.ru/goods-view/asicminer-gen3-2-thash-second

[XBTec]

You state, you DO NOT ACCEPT PRE-ORDERS, right?

How come, that on your Russian webpage, you are offering pre-orders for ASICMINER Gen3 (2 Thash/second), with option to deliver on/before July 20 for $2800 and on/before June 30 for $3400?

Forgot to mention, you have already sold-out a pre-order for 150 pcs, June 17 delivery.

http://www.xbtec.ru/goods-view/asicminer-gen3-2-thash-second

Russian market is Russian. We have good relations with Russian-speaking community.
Moreover we have few anchor investors, who has invested our team, therefore 150psc has been sold out.
So, for now we do not take pre-orders.
Approximately Friday we have to say final price. We are forecasting to give price for July batch about 2800$, but for now it is just estimate value.

Please, have a read carefully the first post of this topic and wait for a Friday.

Sincerely, XBTec Team

[Biodom]

You state, you DO NOT ACCEPT PRE-ORDERS, right?

How come, that on your Russian webpage, you are offering pre-orders for ASICMINER Gen3 (2 Thash/second), with option to deliver on/before July 20 for $2800 and on/before June 30 for $3400?

Forgot to mention, you have already sold-out a pre-order for 150 pcs, June 17 delivery.

http://www.xbtec.ru/goods-view/asicminer-gen3-2-thash-second

Russian market is Russian. We have good relations with Russian-speaking community.
Moreover we have few anchor investors, who has invested our team, therefore 150psc has been sold out.
So, for now we do not take pre-orders.
Approximately Friday we have to say final price. We are forecasting to give price for July batch about 2800$, but for now it is just estimate value.

Please, have a read carefully the first post of this topic and wait for a Friday.

Sincerely, XBTec Team

XBTec, are you going to use the instant promotion on orders to US-this would give you a lot of the market if your machine is reliable at 2th/s at 1700W.
Do you have operational record graphs?
Also, i got it about June 17 batch, but why not sell June 30 batch to US and EU customers.
What's the warranty? Where are you shipping from-Shenzen or Moscow?

Edit: do you have a PR guy or what? Not answering questions on your own board is a bit rude, you better learn from Spondoolies

[psahx]

Do not forget he's Russian, so less talk, more action

I guess we'll have to wait, till Friday, as he have asked us, to see what does they have to offer...

Cheers

[StringTheory]

Will your units be rack mountable or will they require separate rail kits and shelves?

I am co-founder of Bitcoin ASIC Hosting (www.bitcoinasichosting.com) and would like to add your unit to our list of supported ASICs as they hit the market.

Thank you

[antirack]

can we have more info about that plz XBTec?



what would you consider a serious customer for the custom 0.5-5Ph mining rig with immersion cooling system?

When is it supposed to ship?  

This looks like oil immersion. And more like a home built tank without lots of design experience (PC, cable binders, PVC tube). I've seen far better stuff on youtube, mostly gaming rigs but also a few Bitcoin rigs. There are already commercial systems available (Green Revolution Cooling).

Oil is unfortunately a bad idea except if you like tinkering with a small system and a mess at home. Better to stick with air cooling IMHO if you are not in a hot environment to begin with. I've been working around oil tanks for years and everyone who has ever used it hates it. It was the only option for a few years, but now there is 2-phase immersion cooling with 3M Novec Engineered fluids as used in the ASICMiner system. It will soon be the only immersion cooling around.

For serious (as indicated the * in the image) as in commercial miners, oil is unusable. It may look cheaper on the surface, but it's a bloody mess and you only need very little Novec to cool compared to oil. 200cc Novec for 4kW of heat (the cost of a coffee at Starbucks or less than a pizza?).

So, unless you are loaded with cash and have a maintenance team with rubber boots and rubber gloves to keep the oil cooling system running, or you like looking at a greasy mess in a fish tank,  it's really a bad idea.

Here are a couple of reasons why:

- Oil is good at storing heat, that's why they put it in oil heaters (oil radiators)
- You need oil pumps, or your chips will overheat (noise, maintenance, energy)
- Oil cooling still needs the heatsinks, so what's the point?
- You can't use thermal grease, need expensive indium foil instead (still good with QNF probably and silicon pad -> BE200)
- Oil comes out at the other end of the cable ;-) (capillary effect)
- Get used to rubber gloves and rubber boots, lol
- The oil absorbs all sorts of stuff, needs to be changed
- You need to wash your hardware with dishwash liquid (I am not making this up)
- You spend a lot of time cleaning, and the freaking oil just doesn't go away
- Oil pumps fail, just like fans, oil filters need replacement

A couple of other things on safety/security:

- Fire department, insurance, and data center is not going to like it.
- If you follow the rules, you need secondary containment or you risk the authorities shutting you down
- You need to disable water sprinklers (flames, water and oil, get it?) or you risk the authorities shutting you down
- If you disable the water sprinklers, they still shut you down
- Oil is dielectric, but it's also a static accumulator. Sparks and oil are bad
  (earthing your system is extremely important, so is electrical wiring and good quality power supplies)

- How many gallons of mineral oil do you need for 5PH?
- Most countries require a license to "store" such amounts, even for transporting it in a car/truck (separate license)
- Where do you dispose it? Needs to go to a licensed company as well

For oil cooling, in addition to all the oil pumps and water pumps (there are heat exchangers), you need to use an evaporative cooling tower (wet tower). This means you constantly need to refill water, which costs money. Worse than that, the evaporative cooling towers are extremely messy because they are open and bacteria grows in them. That's why in some countries they are regulated and they can't be put near people/windows (people get Legionnaires' disease from them). You need to add chemicals, and you need to clean them once a month or so. That's why you need two (unless you don't mind shutting down your mine for a half day or so while you clean up the mess). In a small system (gaming PC) you can use a radiator instead, but what's the point if you are spending more energy instead of less?

Cooling tower cleaning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49KVBk-2wP8

Example of oil mining rig that actually consumes _more_ electricity than less:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpNERMxvPTk

(radiator, pumps, spinning fans, etc)


if you look at the best and most expensive oil cooling systems around (ie. Tsubame-KFC, a 30kW system at some university in Tokyo, it's the no. 1 on the Green 500 list) you get a PUE of 1.15 (15% for oil cooling) in October (when it's relatively cool in Tokyo). With passive 2-phase immersion cooling you get a PUE of less than 1.01 (less than 1% for 2-phase cooling) even in the desert. And all that with a lot less stuff (no heatsinks, no oil pumps, etc).

Tsubame-KFC: http://www.titech.ac.jp/english/news/2013/024456.html
PUE (Power Usage Effectiveness): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_usage_effectiveness

In summary, oil cooling is immersion cooling of yesterday. 3M Novec/DataTank is immersion cooling is immersion cooling of today and the future. Going back to oil cooling makes no sense. Ask any oil and gas company that tried it for HPC - if even the well funded oil and gas companies don't like oil cooling, that should teach us a lesson ;-)

There are probably a few more downsides, but it's 4AM so I may forget a few points. Going to sleep!

[tzortz]

Nice information, thanks.

Whats the 3M cost per gallon?

[antirack]

Nice information, thanks.

Whats the 3M cost per gallon?

They sell it by weight. And it's heavy unfortunately, about 1.5 times the density of water (but thinner, than water, so the opposite of oil).

And 3M normally only sells it to commercial and industrial customers for attractive prices. If you call them and ask for a gallon, it will cost an arm and a leg (I think I paid almost $200 for my first Novec 7000 years ago). It's an industrial fluid for an industrial application.

If you can build a system that uses very little fluid, the cost of the fluid will be less than the cost of a heat sink. That's the challenge. There is a lot of work being done, not only with open bath immersion cooling.

Xbox or PC cooling with some Novec in an experimental thermo syphon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg5mJjWXlsE

I think this was commercialized in the meantime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1P0VeV_SE

Really hitting the bed now.

[Slark]

On the left, it's me and on the right, it's Jura.

Thanks for this nice description. It was really nice of you to post all these information here. So how old is Jura exactly? He looks around 30 for me.

[psahx]

Shouldn't we have some updates by Friday? Which Friday? Maybe I am mixing up something

[minerpumpkin]

Yeah, I guess we should be in for some news soon!

Also, I'd really like to know about:
- the approximate quantities of the 2 batches
- when the 15 PH/s cloud mining center is supposed to go online

[dogie]

Shouldn't we have some updates by Friday? Which Friday? Maybe I am mixing up something

I should be due a package very soon if they're on time.

[XBTec]

can we have more info about that plz XBTec?



what would you consider a serious customer for the custom 0.5-5Ph mining rig with immersion cooling system?

When is it supposed to ship?  

This looks like oil immersion. And more like a home built tank without lots of design experience (PC, cable binders, PVC tube). I've seen far better stuff on youtube, mostly gaming rigs but also a few Bitcoin rigs. There are already commercial systems available (Green Revolution Cooling).

Oil is unfortunately a bad idea except if you like tinkering with a small system and a mess at home. Better to stick with air cooling IMHO if you are not in a hot environment to begin with. I've been working around oil tanks for years and everyone who has ever used it hates it. It was the only option for a few years, but now there is 2-phase immersion cooling with 3M Novec Engineered fluids as used in the ASICMiner system. It will soon be the only immersion cooling around.

For serious (as indicated the * in the image) as in commercial miners, oil is unusable. It may look cheaper on the surface, but it's a bloody mess and you only need very little Novec to cool compared to oil. 200cc Novec for 4kW of heat (the cost of a coffee at Starbucks or less than a pizza?).

So, unless you are loaded with cash and have a maintenance team with rubber boots and rubber gloves to keep the oil cooling system running, or you like looking at a greasy mess in a fish tank,  it's really a bad idea.

Here are a couple of reasons why:

- Oil is good at storing heat, that's why they put it in oil heaters (oil radiators)
- You need oil pumps, or your chips will overheat (noise, maintenance, energy)
- Oil cooling still needs the heatsinks, so what's the point?
- You can't use thermal grease, need expensive indium foil instead (still good with QNF probably and silicon pad -> BE200)
- Oil comes out at the other end of the cable ;-) (capillary effect)
- Get used to rubber gloves and rubber boots, lol
- The oil absorbs all sorts of stuff, needs to be changed
- You need to wash your hardware with dishwash liquid (I am not making this up)
- You spend a lot of time cleaning, and the freaking oil just doesn't go away
- Oil pumps fail, just like fans, oil filters need replacement

A couple of other things on safety/security:

- Fire department, insurance, and data center is not going to like it.
- If you follow the rules, you need secondary containment or you risk the authorities shutting you down
- You need to disable water sprinklers (flames, water and oil, get it?) or you risk the authorities shutting you down
- If you disable the water sprinklers, they still shut you down
- Oil is dielectric, but it's also a static accumulator. Sparks and oil are bad
  (earthing your system is extremely important, so is electrical wiring and good quality power supplies)

- How many gallons of mineral oil do you need for 5PH?
- Most countries require a license to "store" such amounts, even for transporting it in a car/truck (separate license)
- Where do you dispose it? Needs to go to a licensed company as well

For oil cooling, in addition to all the oil pumps and water pumps (there are heat exchangers), you need to use an evaporative cooling tower (wet tower). This means you constantly need to refill water, which costs money. Worse than that, the evaporative cooling towers are extremely messy because they are open and bacteria grows in them. That's why in some countries they are regulated and they can't be put near people/windows (people get Legionnaires' disease from them). You need to add chemicals, and you need to clean them once a month or so. That's why you need two (unless you don't mind shutting down your mine for a half day or so while you clean up the mess). In a small system (gaming PC) you can use a radiator instead, but what's the point if you are spending more energy instead of less?

Cooling tower cleaning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49KVBk-2wP8

Example of oil mining rig that actually consumes _more_ electricity than less:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpNERMxvPTk

(radiator, pumps, spinning fans, etc)


if you look at the best and most expensive oil cooling systems around (ie. Tsubame-KFC, a 30kW system at some university in Tokyo, it's the no. 1 on the Green 500 list) you get a PUE of 1.15 (15% for oil cooling) in October (when it's relatively cool in Tokyo). With passive 2-phase immersion cooling you get a PUE of less than 1.01 (less than 1% for 2-phase cooling) even in the desert. And all that with a lot less stuff (no heatsinks, no oil pumps, etc).

Tsubame-KFC: http://www.titech.ac.jp/english/news/2013/024456.html
PUE (Power Usage Effectiveness): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_usage_effectiveness

In summary, oil cooling is immersion cooling of yesterday. 3M Novec/DataTank is immersion cooling is immersion cooling of today and the future. Going back to oil cooling makes no sense. Ask any oil and gas company that tried it for HPC - if even the well funded oil and gas companies don't like oil cooling, that should teach us a lesson ;-)

There are probably a few more downsides, but it's 4AM so I may forget a few points. Going to sleep!

1. We are using silicone oil.
2. 3M really very dangerous for people, in case of leak liquid. Service staff have to use gas respirator, if they wanna to stay alive.
3. 3M liquid definitely efficiently cooling, BUT 3M liquid is boiling. When liquid boiling it could damage PCB boards and compounds.
Why? You can read about cavitation effect in Wikipedia or other sources.

Liquid in our system do not freeze even if temperature is 50 Celsius degrees below zero and do not boiling even after 100 Celsius degrees above zero.
This liquid is safety for service staff and do not damage PCB board and compounds, cause we are take attention to cavitation effect.

[jimmothy]

2. 3M really very dangerous for people, in case of leak liquid. Service staff have to use gas respirator, if they wanna to stay alive.

How so? Novec fluid has very low toxicity and is nonflamable (even used in fire extinguishers).

I've also never heard of cavitation being a problem. Got a source for that?

Also any progress on the pacific 2000? Shipping date? Power consumption at the wall?

[dogie]

How so? Novec fluid has very low toxicity and is nonflamable (even used in fire extinguishers).

Also any progress on the pacific 2000? Shipping date? Power consumption at the wall?

There is your answer

[jimmothy]

Not sure what that answers. If it is used in fire extinguishers the vapor can't be harmful.

I've never heard anyone claim the vapor is dangerous let alone lethal.

[dogie]

Not sure what that answers. If it is used in fire extinguishers the vapor can't be harmful.

I've never heard anyone claim the vapor is dangerous let alone lethal.

What I was saying was that its the vapours that kill. The liquid itself is fine, but the vapours suck. It doesn't matter if its used in a fire extinguisher, plenty of things are used in the fire extinguishers which are toxic (like the powder ones). They're not licensed for residential use because of it.