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Author Topic: BitDrop (or ShadyDeliveryNetwork), a non-robotic courier system  (Read 28657 times)
boonies4u
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June 27, 2012, 05:51:43 AM
 #121

Instead of a radius, why not define a region that you are willing to go to. Maybe some parts of your state are largely uninhabited or the roadways aren't tolerable for your vehicle, or you want to avoid certain portions of your city. That might make routing more complicated but probably more efficient.

Also perhaps a distance off of certain highways, so rather than forming a circle, it would be an expanded bubble around whatever major highways you specified.
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Bitcoin Oz
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June 27, 2012, 06:13:20 AM
 #122

Perhaps you could use google maps and specify streets rather than just a radius. Each person would have a different colour to make it easier to see the overlaps.

Then you could see the exact streets to do handovers.

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June 27, 2012, 06:25:01 AM
 #123

What a troubled history this innovative thread has had. Perhaps moving it to a more relevant board would do it some justice. I am surprised it has just now come to my attention. A goofy and quixotic thread, but interesting nonetheless. p2p ftw
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June 27, 2012, 06:32:02 AM
 #124

What a troubled history this innovative thread has had. Perhaps moving it to a more relevant board would do it some justice. I am surprised it has just now come to my attention. A goofy and quixotic thread, but interesting nonetheless. p2p ftw

Its on the agenda for bitcoinglobal but I think its an idea that belongs to everyone. If someone makes a start perhaps they will get paid at the end of it as lead dev or get some shares Smiley


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June 27, 2012, 02:43:12 PM
 #125

I would be willing to be a runner for non-dark packages

Is couriering cash something you'ld object to?  If not, up to what amount would you be comfortable?

(I don't have an actual need, just curious what the response to this question would be.)

I would not object, but would prefer it not be so large as to make myself an attractive target to be robbed. I don't have an armored car Tongue. So, I see no problem with a few hundred USD total per trip.

I can see where this kind of service would be useful for moving money into or out of an exchange without needing the banks.

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June 27, 2012, 08:18:27 PM
 #126

SneakerNet -> TireNet

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June 28, 2012, 06:09:27 AM
 #127

Very interesting. Glad to hear this is going forward!

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EhVedadoOAnonimato
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August 07, 2012, 12:22:01 PM
 #128

it's already well established the courier has no liability for the legality of his/her charge under a properly run delivery service and something like this would have a transparent system where it's obvious the courier cant know the contents.

This can't possibly work in court... otherwise, all drug dealers caught carrying large amounts would just have to claim they didn't know what was inside the package, neither do they know who was the original sender...  Roll Eyes

I imagine this excuse may work for officially recognized carriers... but we shouldn't expect an anonymous p2p postal network to have such recognition.
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August 07, 2012, 12:27:23 PM
 #129

I do wonder how long it would be till nearly every bitdrop courier is a cop  Smiley

Dont really know a solution to that.

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August 07, 2012, 12:49:21 PM
 #130

I do wonder how long it would be till nearly every bitdrop courier is a cop  Smiley

Dont really know a solution to that.

Yep. It's quite easy for them actually, drop the trap and wait to see if somebody shows up.

A way such risk could be mitigated is to require some level of reputation before being able to drop anything. This reputation could be "imported" from other sites, like #otc or SR. Also, having carried some packages dropped by others should build you some reputation, as cops might have legal constraints that forbid them to help the network before trying to attack it (not sure if it's the case though).
Perhaps people should never trust a package dropped by a 0-rep user. Want to use the network, build some reputation before. Quite limiting as constraint, and I'm not sure it's enough. If cops start building their rep before attacking, I wouldn't know any way to protect the users.

PS: Don't take me badly, I don't want to be a pessimist, I'd really like to see such service working. It just looks too difficult and dangerous though...
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August 07, 2012, 12:53:23 PM
 #131

How the heck did I miss this gem of an idea. Love it and would definitely sign up as a curiour. And would also be interested in sending this way.

What kind of prices are we talking with it being gas price^mileage based?

probably the best aspect would be people who commute to work, deliver it on their path they'd normally take

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boonies4u
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August 07, 2012, 02:04:45 PM
 #132

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.
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August 07, 2012, 04:10:55 PM
 #133

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.

Why would anyone want to be a courier if it meant assuming responsibility for the package contents with absolutely no assurance it wasn't something illegal or dangerous?

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August 07, 2012, 04:58:06 PM
 #134

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.

Why would anyone want to be a courier if it meant assuming responsibility for the package contents with absolutely no assurance it wasn't something illegal or dangerous?

I think that totally depends on how much people are willing to pay to ship it.  Although if I was making a ton of money to transport a little box, that could pretty clearly state that it's contents are expensive and dangerous.

Awesome project though.  Just read all 8 pages and can't believe I haven't seen this before.

boonies4u
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August 07, 2012, 06:16:38 PM
 #135

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.

Why would anyone want to be a courier if it meant assuming responsibility for the package contents with absolutely no assurance it wasn't something illegal or dangerous?

I don't see what demand there would be for this service that did not involve delivering something stolen, illegal, dangerous, or at least sensitive.

I would rather the infrastructure remain and one person taking a fall, than having the entire system fall apart. Since you would be going through a legitimate courier, the client would also have plausible deniability for use, since the parent company has legitimate use.
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August 07, 2012, 08:27:00 PM
 #136

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.

Why would anyone want to be a courier if it meant assuming responsibility for the package contents with absolutely no assurance it wasn't something illegal or dangerous?

I don't see what demand there would be for this service that did not involve delivering something stolen, illegal, dangerous, or at least sensitive.

I would rather the infrastructure remain and one person taking a fall, than having the entire system fall apart. Since you would be going through a legitimate courier, the client would also have plausible deniability for use, since the parent company has legitimate use.

Now it seems like more of a dead drop system than a courier system.

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boonies4u
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August 07, 2012, 08:57:28 PM
 #137

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.

Why would anyone want to be a courier if it meant assuming responsibility for the package contents with absolutely no assurance it wasn't something illegal or dangerous?

I don't see what demand there would be for this service that did not involve delivering something stolen, illegal, dangerous, or at least sensitive.

I would rather the infrastructure remain and one person taking a fall, than having the entire system fall apart. Since you would be going through a legitimate courier, the client would also have plausible deniability for use, since the parent company has legitimate use.

Now it seems like more of a dead drop system than a courier system.

It could be dead drop between runners, that way the chances of one successfully ratting on one another is lowered. But the sender and the receiver would meet the runner for the first and last leg respectively.
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August 07, 2012, 09:01:30 PM
 #138

It could be dead drop between runners, that way the chances of one successfully ratting on one another is lowered. But the sender and the receiver would meet the runner for the first and last leg respectively.

Preferably not. Sender drops package, notifies network. Package is moved from drop to drop, eventually reaching destination drop. Network notifies recipient "You've got mail".

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boonies4u
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August 07, 2012, 09:13:56 PM
 #139

It could be dead drop between runners, that way the chances of one successfully ratting on one another is lowered. But the sender and the receiver would meet the runner for the first and last leg respectively.

Preferably not. Sender drops package, notifies network. Package is moved from drop to drop, eventually reaching destination drop. Network notifies recipient "You've got mail".

If I were wanting to have something sent, I probably would like to see it leaving my hands. Even if that meant staking out the pickup location. Last thing I would want is to be tempted at picking it back up, if I felt that it might not have been picked up.

Perhaps the pickup and delivery could be in person as an option, as a way to verify. That way both the first and last pair of runners and clients would submit confirmations of pickup and delivery respectively.
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August 07, 2012, 09:18:22 PM
 #140

nuh-uh. That's a security hole. If I'm sending something, I drop it, and then forget it. Once I'm home, I notify the network, and it's out of my hands.

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