European Central Bank comes down against Bitcoin

[CryptoCurrencyInc.com]

European Central Bank comes down against Bitcoin
http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/european-central-bank-comes-bitcoin/2014/05/27

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[Bit_Happy]

This part sounds good:
"Their special feature is that payments are made directly between the participants without a bank as an intermediary. The elimination of any bank charges achieved in this way is often claimed to be an advantage."

Careful! It's about to get scary:
...However, exchange rate losses can quickly cancel out this advantage. For example, the Bitcoin exchange rate, determined by supply and demand, slumped from €170 to €70 in April 2013 after the Bitcoin exchange temporarily suspended trading and triggered panic selling. Further price falls occurred after hacker attacks, when Bitcoins were stolen on several occasions.

Translation:
BTC has risks, so you should stick with the Euro and watch your country descend into chaos, like Greece.

[bluemeanie1]

very interesting.

"Mr. Mersch, of the ECB, goes on to criticize ‘local currencies‘ that have come into existence. These, local, currencies were established to promote local trade and the ECB feels that their use has the potential to regionalize and stagnate growth and development. He sees the Euro as the only acceptable currency and store of value within the EU area."

I've actually worked with groups in Europe who build these local currencies.  Mostly they are popular with white middle class populations in Western Europe who are not happy with the government.  Does the EU have the right to ban or restrict this kind of economic activity?  It's a good question and this article is a good example of how far the EU authorities are willing to go to impose their sense of order on the population.

"The Euro is strong, so why does it perceive cryptocurrencies to be a threat?"

the Euro is strong?  

-bm

[LostDutchman]

European Central Bank comes down against Bitcoin
http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/european-central-bank-comes-bitcoin/2014/05/27

Screw the EU.

It has lost relevancy anyway.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

That's why you should only use Bitcoin-Central that's backed by a bank - Lemon Way. They'll even throw in a free app for the privilege of you giving them your vitals. davout is the bestest!

In fact, I'd say davout is the most trustworthy person on this forum, hence theymos making him staff. He was kind enough to take my 1,132 BTC outta InstaWallet during the "hack" and wash the bitcoins prior to safekeeping them in one of his fat-ass bitcoin wallets, where they still reside today.

I highly recommend anybody in the Euro zone to use Bitcoin-Central for all their bitcoin transfer needs. But, you better hurry, for Bitcoin-Central is the only company left outta five entities build with Paymium's $400K USD VC. Let's just say that the otheres didn't make it with no fault of their own. Shit happens!

~Bruno Kucinskas

PS: If you get a chance, ask Boussac what happened to him while he was in Amsterdam during the last conference.

Bitcoin-Central: The only safe way to transfer bitcoins in and out in Europe. And, remember, they're backed by a bank - Lemon Way, the entity with ONLY ONE app as their claim-to-fame, conveniently located walking distance from Paymium's front door, albeit they've been know to use mostly the back door themselves.

[Ron~Popeil]

This part sounds good:
"Their special feature is that payments are made directly between the participants without a bank as an intermediary. The elimination of any bank charges achieved in this way is often claimed to be an advantage."

Careful! It's about to get scary:
...However, exchange rate losses can quickly cancel out this advantage. For example, the Bitcoin exchange rate, determined by supply and demand, slumped from €170 to €70 in April 2013 after the Bitcoin exchange temporarily suspended trading and triggered panic selling. Further price falls occurred after hacker attacks, when Bitcoins were stolen on several occasions.

Translation:
BTC has risks, so you should stick with the Euro and watch your country descend into chaos, like Greece.

So bit coin is tiny and nothing to worry about? Why are they bothering to attack it then?

[Bit_Happy]

This part sounds good:
"Their special feature is that payments are made directly between the participants without a bank as an intermediary. The elimination of any bank charges achieved in this way is often claimed to be an advantage."

Careful! It's about to get scary:
...However, exchange rate losses can quickly cancel out this advantage. For example, the Bitcoin exchange rate, determined by supply and demand, slumped from €170 to €70 in April 2013 after the Bitcoin exchange temporarily suspended trading and triggered panic selling. Further price falls occurred after hacker attacks, when Bitcoins were stolen on several occasions.

Translation:
BTC has risks, so you should stick with the Euro and watch your country descend into chaos, like Greece.
...

So bit coin is tiny and nothing to worry about? Why are they bothering to attack it then?

They need to show people their tax money is being spent by people who really care. 
Seriously, the EU is in a state of constant crisis and Germany is tired of bailing out the weaker countries.

[Satan666]

So bit coin is tiny and nothing to worry about? Why are they bothering to attack it then?

We just want to protect our valued customers and don't want to see them get hurt.  We are always looking out for their best interests.

[LostDutchman]

So bit coin is tiny and nothing to worry about? Why are they bothering to attack it then?

We just want to protect our valued customers and don't want to see them get hurt.  We are always looking out for their best interests.

Yeah, right.

[pedrog]

Who tha fuck writes these articles?!

European Central Bank didn't came down against Bitcoin and neither that gentleman!

Why do I keep wasting time reading these crap...

[kjlimo]

Anyone feeling bullish on bitcoin now that the ECB will start charging for cash sitting around in bank accounts?

To da moon!

[tigeRshoes]

This title is wrong! He is actually quite positive about cryptocurrencies but rightly mentions most don't know how they work. It isn't on their radar yet.

[franky1]

criticizing the risk is boring news of the last 5 years. its banks jobs LEGALLY to inform consumers of risks. but the ECB is not banning bitcoins.

every bank of the world has to tell consumers and investors about the risk.. so i don't find this as being 'news'

[tigeRshoes]

"However, exchange rate losses can quickly cancel out this advantage." This part shows they haven't made the mental leap why bitcoin holds global value and over time it is likely this issue will erode. You'd think the fact that the value correlates precisely in line for USD/GBP/EUR fiat currencies 24/7/365 and not randomly volatile for each fiat would be the light bulb moment on why they should be looking to embrace it.

[bryant.coleman]

What if some of the national banks reject the directives and proposals from the ECB? Smaller states such as Slovenia (where Bitstamp is located) might give in to the ECB, but bigger nations such as Germany will tell the ECB to GTFO.

[kjlimo]

Anyone feeling bullish on bitcoin now that the ECB will start charging for cash sitting around in bank accounts?

To da moon!

Any thoughts on how negative interest rates affects the bitcoin world?

[weisoq]

Any thoughts on how negative interest rates affects the bitcoin world?

Bitcoin didn’t emerge at this point in time by accident. It’s a reflection of the economic backdrop. Digital cash, emoney like mpesa, cryptocurrencies are what make things like zero rates and negative rates increasingly long-term possibilities, or vice versa depending how you look at it (that’s an observation, not an opinion on my own preferences).

All else being equal (no f#ck-ups or over mining concentration or hyper alt inflation) Bitcoin will probably keep broadly rising in price until fiat real interest rates hit a level which make investing in something else more attractive. This is aside from any natural appeal in Bitcoin as a transferable asset between interested parties. State money printing only works up to a point, so does blockchain money printing. Until confidence falls, because the underlying resources and goods on offer are still the same. Core incentives to adopt one of a number of choices come down to personal best interests.

Everything is a risk/reward payoff. If deposit accounts offered a positive real rate of return the appeal of Bitcoin falls to most people. However positive real rates are a long way off in most developed economies. The main challenge Bitcoin faces is simplification, promoting more use and then competing with other emergent competitors (private and state). Rising interest rates pose a problem but so do zero or negative rates because that catalyses more and more similar competition.

Ultimately the less invested in bank accounts the higher the real rates offered will be (to compete). Conversely as more money is saved via Bitcoin or alternatives the lower that interest rates will go (no need to increase rates if there’s an abundance of savings). I don’t have a clue what the dominant force will prove to be, but I suspect zero/negative interest rates are not going away in a world of digital money.

[chopstick]

You can't kill the bitcoin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMQg546agpU

[BetMoose]

One of our hosts peaked my interest in this. Is there a chance we can see negative interest rates in the US within 12 months?

https://www.betmoose.com/bet/us-interest-rate-to-fall-below-0--within-12mo-190

And what would be the effect on bitcoin price...

[Erdogan]

Re original post.

Last time it was some unnamed serfs.
For ref: http://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/virtualcurrencyschemes201210en.pdf

This time, it is a senior officer at the ECB. That is progress for us. The talk is mostly about euro banknotes, but bitcoin is covered with a few paragraphs. The enemy is alert, because we are strong. So what level of understanding have he reached? Let's see:

He calls it money. Correct.
He calls it virtual. False, it is tangible.
He calls it digital cash. Correct
He calls it cross border virtual payment system. False. It is easily movable money.
Payments are made directly without a bank. This must be the most important lesson they have learned.
Averts bank fees. Correct, but bitcoin is not costless.
Focus on volatility. Correct.
Focus on dramatic events in the ecosystem. False, those are external to bitcoin.
Difficult for user to understand technology and risk. Correct.
Focus on low adoption. Correct, we know, so why do you care at all?
Bitcoin does not compete with euro and banks. Wrong.

Here is what he does not know about his own wares (the euro banknotes):

It's value is guaranteed by the ECB. Stable anchor of value. Wrong.
Requires no infrastructure. Wrong.

The speach was mostly about the euro notes. It was interesting and informative.

[cech4204a]

Banks ruined my country since it exists, thats Slovenia. NLB bank was bailed out like 5 or more times till today and this country is not that old, 1991 was the starting year. Guess what ? We all paid for those bail-outs and they still didn't fix their problem, the problem is their corruptiveness. This can be solved through BTC, i feel bad about employees thats all.

[jc01480]

Funny how a few credible financial gurus caution that another financial crisis is just around the bend.  Bubbles, anyone?

I suspect any fiat collapse will begin in Europe.

[Cicero2.0]

Banks ruined my country since it exists, thats Slovenia. NLB bank was bailed out like 5 or more times till today and this country is not that old, 1991 was the starting year. Guess what ? We all paid for those bail-outs and they still didn't fix their problem, the problem is their corruptiveness. This can be solved through BTC, i feel bad about employees thats all.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Thomas Jefferson

[jc01480]

Banks ruined my country since it exists, thats Slovenia. NLB bank was bailed out like 5 or more times till today and this country is not that old, 1991 was the starting year. Guess what ? We all paid for those bail-outs and they still didn't fix their problem, the problem is their corruptiveness. This can be solved through BTC, i feel bad about employees thats all.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Thomas Jefferson

Problem is and abundance of tyrants, too few patriots and even fewer trees.

[Erdogan]

Banks ruined my country since it exists, thats Slovenia. NLB bank was bailed out like 5 or more times till today and this country is not that old, 1991 was the starting year. Guess what ? We all paid for those bail-outs and they still didn't fix their problem, the problem is their corruptiveness. This can be solved through BTC, i feel bad about employees thats all.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Thomas Jefferson

Problem is and abundance of tyrants, too few patriots and even fewer trees.

Problem is too much slave-think. Say no.

[tigeRshoes]

"The value of the Euro is guaranteed by the ECB"
LOL

[ArnoldChippy]

"The value of the Euro is guaranteed by the ECB"
LOL

Yeah, they should tell that to the people of Cyprus!

The governments & media even tried to smooth-over their actions, by calling it a 'haircut', rather than the theft that it actually was.

The collapse of Fiat currencies can't come soon enough for me. Vive La Bitcoin!

[runam0k]

"The value of the Euro is guaranteed by the ECB"
LOL

Yeah, they should tell that to the people of Cyprus!

Indeed.  People don't seem to realise that real businesses and people who had been saving all their lives had money taken from them.  One day it was there, the next day it was not.

Of course we have ALL had money taken from us over the last 7 years or so with inflation dwarfing stupidly low interest rates.

[BADecker]

"The value of the Euro is guaranteed by the ECB"
LOL

Yeah, they should tell that to the people of Cyprus!

Indeed.  People don't seem to realise that real businesses and people who had been saving all their lives had money taken from them.  One day it was there, the next day it was not.

Of course we have ALL had money taken from us over the last 7 years or so with inflation dwarfing stupidly low interest rates.

People don't seem to realize that Great Britain and the United States are nations that have been bankrupt for a very long time. They are both common law nations as well.

The Uniform Commercial Code in the United States (and whatever its counterpart is in the UK) shows that you can't pay for anything that you owe money for, because in bankruptcy, all money has been suspended. Fiat is NOT money. It is a medium of exchange that is NOT money. Though the banks print it, you and others create it when you apply your signature to loan agreements as the borrower.

Google "accepted for value" to start your understanding of fiat versus money. Youtube "Karl Lentz" to start your understanding about how you can free yourself from the British and American courts by using a whole different area of the court system than you are used to, and in a different way than you are used to.

Much of the terrorist stuff that is happening in the world today is being promoted (being done) by the governments of the U.S. and the U.K. because people are waking up to the fact that there are easy legal ways to get out of slavery. and the governments and the bankers don't want us to find this stuff out.

Combine the use of Bitcoin with the UCC/Accepted For Value, all under common law, and we have a perfect OUT from the slavery of the bankers who want to rule the world. But be ready for militarized kickback from government.

If the U.S. is allowed to settle and control Iraq, it will start to manufacture military weapons over there to use on its own citizens and eastern Europe.

[LostDutchman]

"The value of the Euro is guaranteed by the ECB"
LOL

Yeah, they should tell that to the people of Cyprus!

Indeed.  People don't seem to realise that real businesses and people who had been saving all their lives had money taken from them.  One day it was there, the next day it was not.

Of course we have ALL had money taken from us over the last 7 years or so with inflation dwarfing stupidly low interest rates.

People don't seem to realize that Great Britain and the United States are nations that have been bankrupt for a very long time. They are both common law nations as well.

The Uniform Commercial Code in the United States (and whatever its counterpart is in the UK) shows that you can't pay for anything that you owe money for, because in bankruptcy, all money has been suspended. Fiat is NOT money. It is a medium of exchange that is NOT money. Though the banks print it, you and others create it when you apply your signature to loan agreements as the borrower.

Google "accepted for value" to start your understanding of fiat versus money. Youtube "Karl Lentz" to start your understanding about how you can free yourself from the British and American courts by using a whole different area of the court system than you are used to, and in a different way than you are used to.

Much of the terrorist stuff that is happening in the world today is being promoted (being done) by the governments of the U.S. and the U.K. because people are waking up to the fact that there are easy legal ways to get out of slavery. and the governments and the bankers don't want us to find this stuff out.

Combine the use of Bitcoin with the UCC/Accepted For Value, all under common law, and we have a perfect OUT from the slavery of the bankers who want to rule the world. But be ready for militarized kickback from government.

If the U.S. is allowed to settle and control Iraq, it will start to manufacture military weapons over there to use on its own citizens and eastern Europe.

Huh?

Been gone for a while due to health issues but everything is OK now.

Just kind of took a break from the madness of crypto!