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Author Topic: Snowden should 'man-up' and face trial: says SOS John Kerry  (Read 3972 times)
Chef Ramsay
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May 29, 2014, 02:38:09 AM
 #1

Kerry: Snowden should "man up" and do "his patriotic duty" to go to jail.
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Washington: US Secretary of State John Kerry lashed out at fugitive Edward Snowden Wednesday, urging him to "man-up" and do his patriotic duty by returning home to face trial for leaking intelligence secrets.

Kerry's comments came only hours after Snowden alleged he was not just a low-level contractor working for the CIA, as the White House has repeatedly insisted.

"I was trained as a spy in sort of the traditional sense of the word in that I lived and worked undercover overseas -- pretending to work in a job that I'm not -- and even being assigned a name that was not mine," he told NBC.

In his first interview with US media, Snowden said he had worked covertly as "a technical expert" for the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency, and as a trainer for the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Kerry however denied that the State Department had trapped Snowden in Moscow, saying "for a supposedly smart guy, that's a pretty dumb answer, frankly." "If Mr Snowden wants to come back to the United States today, we'll have him on a flight today," Kerry told NBC.

"A patriot would not run away and look for refuge in Russia or Cuba or some other country," Kerry said. "A patriot would stand up in the United States and make his case to the American people."
More..http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/snowden-should-man-up-and-face-trial-kerry_935742.html
Yeah, be a patriot and come back to a kangaroo court. The O regime has come down hard on whistleblowers and yet they play this media game of "just come back and make your case" as if the deck wasn't already stacked against the person.
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May 29, 2014, 02:55:52 AM
 #2

"Kerry should fuck off and shut the fuck up" says wachtwoord on the bitcointalk forums.

yeah agreed as the US gov already made charges against him, I feel bad for him his life is ruined from this point on, I wonder if he has any regrets doing this.  I think as of us Americans we need to stand up for the man

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May 29, 2014, 03:02:44 AM
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or maybe the U.S. govt should man up and tell the public how they're meddling in everyone's lives.
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May 29, 2014, 03:05:30 AM
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One should now that in no way would the trial be fair and unbiased
The jury judge and executioner would not be anywhere in his favor
Kangaroo court (Maybe in 10-20 years when the impact is diminished)

Also Chelsea Manning. He exposed images of soldiers killing innocent people for sport and who's in a jail cell? I'll give you a hint: not those soldiers. Makes me fucking sick to my stomach.

Amen
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May 29, 2014, 04:05:44 AM
 #5

But first American politicians people such as Hillary Clinton (the future POTUS) should face trial for bombing the orphanages of Serbia and killing hundreds of children. George W Bush (ex-POTUS) should take the responsibility of killing 2 million Iraqi civilians. Once they are ready to face trial for their crimes, then we can talk about Snowden.

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May 29, 2014, 04:32:53 AM
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John Kerry needs to man up and explain what his predecessor was doing while our Ambassador was murdered in Libya.

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May 29, 2014, 06:01:17 AM
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"Kerry should fuck off and shut the fuck up" says wachtwoord on the bitcointalk forums.


Well put.
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May 29, 2014, 06:03:23 AM
 #8

But first American politicians people such as Hillary Clinton (the future POTUS) should face trial for bombing the orphanages of Serbia and killing hundreds of children. George W Bush (ex-POTUS) should take the responsibility of killing 2 million Iraqi civilians. Once they are ready to face trial for their crimes, then we can talk about Snowden.

it feels like you are trying to confront the bully at the school, but it's impossible because even if you won.. everyone else around you is not your friend
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May 29, 2014, 07:05:25 AM
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"Kerry should fuck off and shut the fuck up" says wachtwoord on the bitcointalk forums.

yeah agreed as the US gov already made charges against him, I feel bad for him his life is ruined from this point on, I wonder if he has any regrets doing this.  I think as of us Americans we need to stand up for the man
It wont happen the American became a country where they turn there cheek when there is an issue.  let me tell you a story one day I was in a subway station in new york an African American male was banged his GF so hard you heard it loud from the other side of the car, he continued to make threats, everyone was looking but they look like they would do something but they didnt say a word.  I had to get up and I said " Hey!! That is enough!!!!.  Then the group of teens joined in with me.  I told the girl to get off this station and there is a police officer.  I helped the girl from getting abused, who knows how bad things would have gotten if I wasnt there to make a stand.  This is the place we live in today, where we turn our other cheek when someone might be crying for help but they are to scared too.

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May 29, 2014, 07:22:13 AM
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Yep, a real patriot would come back to be assasinated.

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May 29, 2014, 08:17:57 AM
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Yep, a real patriot would come back to be assasinated.

nah, they are not that kind. probably will have to torture him. for instance, isn't some of the information on how they are treating bradley classified?

maybe if they're brave enough, they'll torture him and leak out information that they did, to set a precedence for any future offenders that if they rat out the US gov, then they will wish for their death.
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May 29, 2014, 09:28:08 AM
 #12

nah, they are not that kind. probably will have to torture him. for instance, isn't some of the information on how they are treating bradley classified?

I don't think there was any torture. They just forced a sex change operation upon him. So Bradley Manning no longer exists now. There is only Chelsea Manning. If Edward Snowden returns to the US, he / she will be Barbara Snowden after a few months.

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May 29, 2014, 10:04:12 AM
 #13

Yep, a real patriot would come back to be assasinated.

Let's face it, it's either that or get thrown in jail for half of his life.

Quote
He should man up and come back to the United States. If he has a complaint about what's the matter with American surveillance, (he should) come back here and stand in our system of justice and make his case.

"If he cares so much about America and he believes in America, he should trust the American system of justice.

Make his case and then get sent straight to prison? The USG should apologise to Snowden and the rest of the world and then publicly pardon him. I also don't see how you can't care about a country but not trust the justice system which is obviously corrupt and won't give him a fair trial.

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May 29, 2014, 10:07:38 AM
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Make his case and then get sent straight to prison? The USG should apologise to Snowden and the rest of the world and then publicly pardon him. I also don't see how you can't care about a country but not trust the justice system which is obviously corrupt and won't give him a fair trial.

This.

Many dissidents, who escaped from the Soviet Union, cared for the country, but were rightly distrustful of its judicial system, especially in the politically-flavoured cases.

Seems like the table has been turned...

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May 29, 2014, 10:25:39 AM
 #15

http://rt.com/usa/162144-snowden-russia-spy-nsa/

Quote
"The reality is I never intended to end up in Russia," he said. "I had a flight booked to Cuba onwards to Latin America and I was stopped because the United States government decided to revoke my passport and trap me in Moscow airport.”

"So when people ask why are you in Russia, I say, 'Please ask the State Department,'” he added.

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May 29, 2014, 10:32:11 AM
 #16

People in the U.S government no less talked about how much they'd want to shoot him, it's amazing really that Russia is more safe for him than the U.S given what we've been taught by western governments as children, John Kerry can shut the fuck up I agree, at least in Russia he's being treated as a human being.
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May 29, 2014, 11:32:24 AM
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John Kerry is one of the biggest fuckin' hypocrite on the world.
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May 29, 2014, 11:34:38 AM
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It'd like to see Kerry's butthurt if Snowden would decide to run his election campaign on the next parliamentary or mayor elections... It seems that he has a strong chance to be elected as MP or mayor of Moscow.

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May 29, 2014, 03:40:23 PM
 #19

at least in Russia he's being treated as a human being.

Maybe, but sadly this courtesy doesn't extended to some of their own citizens, specifically homosexuals and feminist activists (not to mention their involvement in the Ukraine).

Has Snowden actually got a Russian passport now, or has/will he be granted citizenship? I wonder if he'll ever make his way to Cuba, but I'd probably rather stay in Russia where it's safer for him. Cuba looks a nice place to live though. Whatever happens I hope he can find some comfort/happiness in life. Pretty bullshit he'll most probably have to spend the rest of his life as a fugitive now.

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May 29, 2014, 04:00:43 PM
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Quote
yeah agreed as the US gov already made charges against him, I feel bad for him his life is ruined from this point on, I wonder if he has any regrets doing this.  I think as of us Americans we need to stand up for the man

Ruined life ? He already won.
The day when he will die, I am sure he will be one of the few that will proudly say : "I had a meaningful life, thanks"
There is no way he regrets following his conviction against a comfortable life.
His life is not ruined, it began from the day he followed his convictions. (The bad or good consequences it had depends on the observer)

"Every man dies, not every man really live" like William Wallace (or its actor) said Smiley

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May 29, 2014, 04:45:51 PM
 #21

http://rt.com/usa/162144-snowden-russia-spy-nsa/

Quote
"The reality is I never intended to end up in Russia," he said. "I had a flight booked to Cuba onwards to Latin America and I was stopped because the United States government decided to revoke my passport and trap me in Moscow airport.”

"So when people ask why are you in Russia, I say, 'Please ask the State Department,'” he added.

Nice catch, while it was obvious, it's another proof and the fact that it isn't denied makes it legit
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May 29, 2014, 06:56:54 PM
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at least in Russia he's being treated as a human being.

Maybe, but sadly this courtesy doesn't extended to some of their own citizens, specifically homosexuals and feminist activists (not to mention their involvement in the Ukraine).

Has Snowden actually got a Russian passport now, or has/will he be granted citizenship? I wonder if he'll ever make his way to Cuba, but I'd probably rather stay in Russia where it's safer for him. Cuba looks a nice place to live though. Whatever happens I hope he can find some comfort/happiness in life. Pretty bullshit he'll most probably have to spend the rest of his life as a fugitive now.

would russia even let him leave? he has valuable information on not only the U.S., but other countries as well. it could be a strategic advantage for them to know this information.
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May 29, 2014, 07:02:48 PM
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He is allowed to leave the country whenever he want. But once he does this, his temporary ID will become a useless scrap of paper and he won't be able to return without getting the new ID.  Roll Eyes Temporary ID card has no limitations except this one, i.e. there is no difference between a passport and a temporary ID if you haven't left the country.  Maybe later he will apply the full citizenship, who knows... Seems like a good idea because his US passport has been revoked.

Maybe, but sadly this courtesy doesn't extended to some of their own citizens, specifically homosexuals and feminist activists (not to mention their involvement in the Ukraine).
Well, it seems that you have dedicated too much time for Euronews or CNN. Smiley

Oh, c'mon, we see this gay-people-cracking-down stuff again and again... Grin Nobody cracking down on them, it's a total BS. Nobody cares about gays here, some pop stars and politicials are open homosexuals, they're still alive and active.

This "gay people prosecutions" bullshit is not even funny anymore. It's so far from the reality that I'm unable to imagine how anybody can believe that. This would be like a belief into spaghetti monster or martian invasion, the same level of stupidity.

Sexual orientation is nobody's business, it's a private matter. If some person thinks too much about someone's orientation, then he needs to visit a doctor, without any delay. This is the most popular point of view on this issue.

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May 29, 2014, 10:23:28 PM
 #24

i just saw his nbc interview, and i fucking love this guy.. he's ballsy. the way he presents himself makes me as certain as i possibly can that he did it not to be famous.

he even spoke out against the russian government.. quite ballsy.
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May 30, 2014, 12:36:21 AM
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In an ideal world, Snowden would return and be acquitted in a trial by jury. That would be a major blow to the current American policy on privacy.

But this isn't an ideal world.

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May 30, 2014, 04:13:31 AM
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This is a tough issue to wrap my brain around. If he broke US law he should be charged and tried, but his motives were clearly not criminal. Either way he would never get a fair trial here.

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May 30, 2014, 04:20:19 AM
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This is a tough issue to wrap my brain around. If he broke US law he should be charged and tried, but his motives were clearly not criminal. Either way he would never get a fair trial here.

the legal system works to favor those who are involved with government. those who are not get treated differently, so i'm pretty sure our legal system is flawed.
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May 30, 2014, 04:38:43 AM
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This is a tough issue to wrap my brain around. If he broke US law he should be charged and tried, but his motives were clearly not criminal. Either way he would never get a fair trial here.

the legal system works to favor those who are involved with government. those who are not get treated differently, so i'm pretty sure our legal system is flawed.

No question about that. My Father in law is an attorney and would say the same. He had a client earlier in his career that was executed this year. He said that the funds he received for preparing the defense for this client were nowhere near what he needed to compete with the incredible amount the state spent to make sure they could kill him.   

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May 30, 2014, 04:53:47 AM
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This is a tough issue to wrap my brain around. If he broke US law he should be charged and tried, but his motives were clearly not criminal. Either way he would never get a fair trial here.

the legal system works to favor those who are involved with government. those who are not get treated differently, so i'm pretty sure our legal system is flawed.

No question about that. My Father in law is an attorney and would say the same. He had a client earlier in his career that was executed this year. He said that the funds he received for preparing the defense for this client were nowhere near what he needed to compete with the incredible amount the state spent to make sure they could kill him.   

what bothers me is the people who molest kids, drive intoxicated and kill people, and do other shit.. get away scott free because they have money. meanwhile, someone who sells weed in some southern state gets the death penalty.. because he was poor and there are evil people out there.

meanwhile, we have the gangsters in our government saying "you should abide by the law, it is supreme.. come back to the U.S. so we can torture you."
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May 30, 2014, 06:09:44 AM
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People in the U.S government no less talked about how much they'd want to shoot him, it's amazing really that Russia is more safe for him than the U.S given what we've been taught by western governments as children, John Kerry can shut the fuck up I agree, at least in Russia he's being treated as a human being.

Kerry is just embarrassed at how badly their dirty laundry got put out to air making them responsible to their citizens
That invincibility complex of being the government and always knowing best.
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May 30, 2014, 06:55:26 AM
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Snowden should agree to face trial for telling the truth right after Bush and Cheney have faced trial for lying and being responsible for initiating a war of aggression, an act described by the Nuremberg Tribunals as the "supreme international crime".

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May 30, 2014, 06:57:58 AM
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Snowden should agree to face trial for telling the truth right after Bush and Cheney have faced trial for lying and being responsible for initiating a war of aggression, an act described by the Nuremberg Tribunals as the "supreme international crime".
Don't forget about Bill Clitor Clinton.

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May 30, 2014, 01:25:07 PM
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Don't forget about Bill Clitor Clinton.

Bush and Cheney waged war for their corporate allies. Billary Clintons waged war to improve their reputation. In 1999, both Bill's and Hillary's reputation was going down to the drains, when he decided to bomb the orphanages of Serbia. His reputation bounced back to some extent... but not enough to propel Kerry to an election victory the next year.

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May 30, 2014, 04:42:33 PM
 #34

This is a tough issue to wrap my brain around. If he broke US law he should be charged and tried, but his motives were clearly not criminal. Either way he would never get a fair trial here.

the legal system works to favor those who are involved with government. those who are not get treated differently, so i'm pretty sure our legal system is flawed.

No question about that. My Father in law is an attorney and would say the same. He had a client earlier in his career that was executed this year. He said that the funds he received for preparing the defense for this client were nowhere near what he needed to compete with the incredible amount the state spent to make sure they could kill him.   

what bothers me is the people who molest kids, drive intoxicated and kill people, and do other shit.. get away scott free because they have money. meanwhile, someone who sells weed in some southern state gets the death penalty.. because he was poor and there are evil people out there.

meanwhile, we have the gangsters in our government saying "you should abide by the law, it is supreme.. come back to the U.S. so we can torture you."

Innocent until proven indigent is the de facto law of the land in the US. So much for the land of the free.

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May 30, 2014, 04:54:36 PM
 #35

The day when he will die, I am sure he will be one of the few that will proudly say : "I had a meaningful life, thanks"
There is no way he regrets following his conviction against a comfortable life.
His life is not ruined, it began from the day he followed his convictions. (The bad or good consequences it had depends on the observer)

"Every man dies, not every man really live" like William Wallace (or its actor) said Smiley

Yes, agreed. The Kerrys of this world are 10 a penny. That Kerry suggested Snowden "man up" merely shows that he doesn't really understand what it means to be a man IMHO. Talking the talk, shaking some hands and slapping some backs doesn't cut it I'm afraid.
   I had to laugh also at his little dig at Russia, where he said that it was an "authoritarian regime"  Grin What the fuck is that supposed to mean ? The pot calling the kettle black  Grin   You are the one, Kerry, wanting to string a man up by the balls for having told the truth.
  
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May 30, 2014, 04:58:34 PM
 #36

Edward Snowden is a hero.

John Kerry is a plastic vampire leech.

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May 30, 2014, 07:51:13 PM
 #37

You see, this is the only way the government can discredit him now. Note how they don't say JACK SHIT about the morality of what he actually did. They don't talk about whether it was right or wrong. They don't say whether the government and the NSA are breaking laws. Instead they focus on the fact that he is "afraid" to come home to be fucking imprisoned for life with no trial. Give me a fucking break. They expect people to simple go "oh yeah you're right Kerry he is a coward!" and completely discredit what he actually did and why. Any person with half a brain knows that Snowden is a fucking hero and patriot and has more balls than all of the politicians in the White House put together.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.
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May 30, 2014, 08:13:23 PM
 #38

If Snowden were to get a fair public trial then sure he should man up but it will not be the case here for sure, also before asking Snowden to be judged for his crimes (because in my eyes he commited some by taking the informations and stuff) people that cause the death of hundred of thousands through the recent wars under false excuses should be held responsible for their crimes
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May 30, 2014, 09:57:10 PM
 #39

Snowden Acts Like a Man – John Kerry Acts Like a Thug
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By Shane Kastler


Edward Snowden appeared calm, articulate, and mature. John Kerry on the other hand acted like a spoiled, rich kid – a schoolyard bully questioning the “manhood” of Snowden who he insulted by calling him a coward since he won't immediately come home to face charges. In another sophomoric, juvenile bit of mud slinging Kerry called him stupid. What the jack jawed pompous millionaire government hack doesn't seem to realize is that
Snowden isn't near stupid enough to “come home for his fair trial” because no such “fair trial” would ever take place. Kerry can bluster all he wants; he has access to bombs, tanks, and assassins who will kill whomever he wishes. What does Snowden have? Two things: first he has far more common sense than Kerry, and second he has the truth.
Cont...http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2014/05/snowden-acts-like-man-john-kerry-acts.html#more

This is a great article piece and should be shared far and wide. Just another clip
Quote
“Sometimes the “right” thing is not the “legal” thing” was a statement he made near the end of the interview; and I knew exactly what he meant. If a kid is drowning in a lake and you're standing next to a sign that says “No Swimming!” What do you do? Answer: you break the law and save the kid. When painted into a corner you have to consider the matter of the greater good and act accordingly. Letting the chips fall where they may, which is what Snowden has done. There's a mighty dear price you pay for standing up to “Uncle Sam” and his bully goons like John Kerry. But the Federal government’s gang of rouge outlaws need to be stopped. Here's to hoping other Edward Snowdens are out there now, determining whether or not they'll act like men and yet be called a coward by the biggest coward of them all John Kerry. Name-calling is the petty task of the 8th grade bully. Taking on a corrupt government is the job of a man. Maybe someday Snowden can get back to work in his office; and Kerry can get back to the playground where he belongs.
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May 30, 2014, 10:56:58 PM
 #40

Kerry should 'man-up' and confess to treason with the rest of the sitting and past government officials.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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May 30, 2014, 11:48:49 PM
 #41

Snowden Acts Like a Man – John Kerry Acts Like a Thug
Quote
By Shane Kastler


Edward Snowden appeared calm, articulate, and mature. John Kerry on the other hand acted like a spoiled, rich kid – a schoolyard bully questioning the “manhood” of Snowden who he insulted by calling him a coward since he won't immediately come home to face charges. In another sophomoric, juvenile bit of mud slinging Kerry called him stupid. What the jack jawed pompous millionaire government hack doesn't seem to realize is that
Snowden isn't near stupid enough to “come home for his fair trial” because no such “fair trial” would ever take place. Kerry can bluster all he wants; he has access to bombs, tanks, and assassins who will kill whomever he wishes. What does Snowden have? Two things: first he has far more common sense than Kerry, and second he has the truth.
Cont...http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2014/05/snowden-acts-like-man-john-kerry-acts.html#more

This is a great article piece and should be shared far and wide. Just another clip
Quote
“Sometimes the “right” thing is not the “legal” thing” was a statement he made near the end of the interview; and I knew exactly what he meant. If a kid is drowning in a lake and you're standing next to a sign that says “No Swimming!” What do you do? Answer: you break the law and save the kid. When painted into a corner you have to consider the matter of the greater good and act accordingly. Letting the chips fall where they may, which is what Snowden has done. There's a mighty dear price you pay for standing up to “Uncle Sam” and his bully goons like John Kerry. But the Federal government’s gang of rouge outlaws need to be stopped. Here's to hoping other Edward Snowdens are out there now, determining whether or not they'll act like men and yet be called a coward by the biggest coward of them all John Kerry. Name-calling is the petty task of the 8th grade bully. Taking on a corrupt government is the job of a man. Maybe someday Snowden can get back to work in his office; and Kerry can get back to the playground where he belongs.

That is kind of where things get murky for me. He clearly broke some laws but his reasons were just. Our founding fathers we also criminals in the eyes of the British crown.

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May 31, 2014, 07:34:33 AM
 #42

Kerry should 'man-up' and confess to treason with the rest of the sitting and past government officials.

In a sense it did make me wonder if enough people tried to kick them out of power if it would work in practice or if voter apathy helps to keep them not charged with any crimes.
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May 31, 2014, 07:55:21 AM
 #43

All this just exposes the frustration being felt by John Kerry. He wants to get the Democrat ticket for POTUS 2016, but knows that Hillary and Biden are far ahead of him. Kerry is slowly fading away from the public limelight.... If he thinks that verbal diarrhea might help him to temporarily stop that decline, then let it be so. 

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May 31, 2014, 09:15:00 PM
 #44

Kerry should 'man-up' and confess to treason with the rest of the sitting and past government officials.

In a sense it did make me wonder if enough people tried to kick them out of power if it would work in practice or if voter apathy helps to keep them not charged with any crimes.

It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes. Wolves don't eat their own, usually.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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May 31, 2014, 09:57:12 PM
 #45

Anyone here has any doubt that the courageous Kerry would return for trial if he was in Snowden shoes?  Roll Eyes

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May 31, 2014, 09:57:20 PM
 #46

Kerry should 'man-up' and confess to treason with the rest of the sitting and past government officials.

In a sense it did make me wonder if enough people tried to kick them out of power if it would work in practice or if voter apathy helps to keep them not charged with any crimes.

It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes. Wolves don't eat their own, usually.

the whole American voting system is a fraud in my opinion, two parties, people vote, for people that vote for them, what the hell is this supposed to be, the population should vote directly and no proxy should be allowed in the loop.... as long as this system is in place among others things won't change much
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May 31, 2014, 10:31:45 PM
 #47

Unfortunately for a guy like Snowden, he's got to chill in a major powerhouse like Russia otherwise the US/CIA would likely send in a squad after him. But for many of us, those that have interest in new money and avoiding the coming relentless restraints place by the US govt inc, it's more beneficial to go to St. Kitts, Puerto Rico or some such place to escape the coming economic decline. These new capital controls coming in July will signify the new urgency that the US financial sector/FED is realizing is imminent and the S could hit the fan sooner rather than later. I just hope that the likes of Rand Paul can get elected and do something to right the ship and offer a better path for the vast majority of people. Those of us that have accumulated a decent portfolio of BTC and related items are better placed to deal w/ the decline and find an exit.
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May 31, 2014, 10:38:27 PM
 #48

Kerry should 'man-up' and confess to treason with the rest of the sitting and past government officials.

In a sense it did make me wonder if enough people tried to kick them out of power if it would work in practice or if voter apathy helps to keep them not charged with any crimes.

It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes. Wolves don't eat their own, usually.

the whole American voting system is a fraud in my opinion, two parties, people vote, for people that vote for them, what the hell is this supposed to be, the population should vote directly and no proxy should be allowed in the loop.... as long as this system is in place among others things won't change much

There are more than the Democrat and Republican parties, but even if 100% of non-government officials voted for someone who wasn't in them, either a Republican or a Democrat would be declared to have "won" by some arbitrary number anyway. Unless the elected position didn't really matter, then a bone might be thrown to the actual winning party.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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May 31, 2014, 11:39:48 PM
 #49

Kerry should 'man-up' and confess to treason with the rest of the sitting and past government officials.

In a sense it did make me wonder if enough people tried to kick them out of power if it would work in practice or if voter apathy helps to keep them not charged with any crimes.

It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes. Wolves don't eat their own, usually.

That's why we need blockchain based voting

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May 31, 2014, 11:47:09 PM
 #50

Kerry should 'man-up' and confess to treason with the rest of the sitting and past government officials.

In a sense it did make me wonder if enough people tried to kick them out of power if it would work in practice or if voter apathy helps to keep them not charged with any crimes.

It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes. Wolves don't eat their own, usually.

the whole American voting system is a fraud in my opinion, two parties, people vote, for people that vote for them, what the hell is this supposed to be, the population should vote directly and no proxy should be allowed in the loop.... as long as this system is in place among others things won't change much

That's actually something the American founders warned against very early on, in fact, I think there's a quote about it and here it is!:

Quote
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.
- John Adams
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June 01, 2014, 03:41:03 AM
 #51

Kerry sounds like your typical sock puppet. Like back in the day when Karl Rove was running the government propaganda machine. You can bet someone now filling his shoes came up with that little piece of spin.

You can imagine in some backroom with a whiteboard, Conrad Brean is listening to Hollywood producer Stanley Motss ( Wag the Dog ) work out how the public discourse will be manipulated: "No, no, Conrad, no the issue is not about what Snowden exposed, no, its that he is a coward, the people do not like cowards Conrad. Hows that sounds? Good? Ok lets run an interview with whats his face Kerry's saying just that...oh and I think when he says it, he should be holding a kitten...".

That sort of thing.


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June 01, 2014, 03:48:14 AM
 #52

Issue should be government needs to stop being pepping tom. I feel totally unsecured having tons of naked photo of myself stored online and being seen by untrained eyes.
Not only will it weaken my self confident but it may cause long term psychological damage to those seeing it.

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June 01, 2014, 03:55:57 AM
 #53

But for many of us, those that have interest in new money and avoiding the coming relentless restraints place by the US govt inc, it's more beneficial to go to St. Kitts, Puerto Rico or some such place to escape the coming economic decline.

I have a strong feeling that these tax heavens (such as St Kitts) can turn to bear traps. These small island nations are ruled by proxy governments or puppets chosen by the United States. The US government won't be too happy, if large number of its citizens try to evade tax by taking St Kitts citizenship.

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June 01, 2014, 04:14:46 AM
 #54



Can't believe I voted for this guy in 2004.

On that one, you got goxxed.

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June 01, 2014, 07:03:05 AM
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Can't believe I voted for this guy in 2004.

On that one, you got goxxed.

Proud to say that the only presidential candidate I ever voted for was Gary Johnson Smiley

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June 01, 2014, 07:10:17 AM
 #56

Proud to say that the only presidential candidate I ever voted for was Gary Johnson Smiley

Voting for the Libertarian Party candidates is a waste. They hardly ever get more than 2% of the vote (Gary Johnson received just 0.99% of the vote). They only helps the Democrats, by eating away the GOP vote.

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June 01, 2014, 07:24:00 AM
 #57

Proud to say that the only presidential candidate I ever voted for was Gary Johnson Smiley

Voting for the Libertarian Party candidates is a waste. They hardly ever get more than 2% of the vote (Gary Johnson received just 0.99% of the vote). They only helps the Democrats, by eating away the GOP vote.

If a third party gets 5% of the vote, then the party gets FEC funding.

Since no third-party candidate received 5% of the vote in the 2008 presidential election, only the Republican and Democratic parties were eligible for 2012 convention grants, and only their nominees were eligible to receive grants for the general election once they were nominated. Third-party candidates could qualify for public funds retroactively if they received 5% or more of the vote in the general election.

Anyways, why the hell should I vote for someone I don't fully support?

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June 01, 2014, 08:48:33 AM
 #58

If a third party gets 5% of the vote, then the party gets FEC funding.

Anyways, why the hell should I vote for someone I don't fully support?

Getting 5% of the vote means almost 6.5 million votes. That will be a huge challenge for anyone outside the two party system. Requires hundreds of millions of USD in funding.

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June 01, 2014, 09:53:36 AM
 #59

Anyways, why the hell should I vote for someone I don't fully support?
When you are choosing between opposition candidates, it's better to vote for somebody who has higher ratings even if you are completely disagree with him. This reason is called a "compromise". It allows you to make the gap between puppet parties and opposition smaller and increase GOP/Dem spendings. Smiley

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June 01, 2014, 01:13:05 PM
 #60

I vote libertarian.

Because a vote for lesser of two evils is simply a vote to perpetuate the rotten 2 party system.

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June 01, 2014, 01:25:20 PM
 #61

I vote libertarian.
Because a vote for lesser of two evils is simply a vote to perpetuate the rotten 2 party system.

Voting for Libertarians might work in the local elections. But it will never have the effect in the national elections, as the latter is more polarized towards the two-party system.

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June 01, 2014, 01:28:46 PM
 #62

I vote libertarian.
Because a vote for lesser of two evils is simply a vote to perpetuate the rotten 2 party system.

Voting for Libertarians might work in the local elections. But it will never have the effect in the national elections, as the latter is more polarized towards the two-party system.

The point isn't to have a direct effect.  The point is withdrawal support.  Refusing to vote works too.

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June 01, 2014, 01:56:58 PM
 #63

Refusing to vote works too.

Refusing to vote might work if the majority of the population boycotts the polling. But if only some 2-3% is doing that, then no one is going to give a rat's a$$ about it.

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June 01, 2014, 01:57:33 PM
 #64

Proud to say that the only presidential candidate I ever voted for was Gary Johnson Smiley

Voting for the Libertarian Party candidates is a waste. They hardly ever get more than 2% of the vote (Gary Johnson received just 0.99% of the vote). They only helps the Democrats, by eating away the GOP vote.

Fuck you, I would love to vote for the Libertarian party in my country but they don't even show up in a lot of the polling stations!
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June 01, 2014, 02:02:07 PM
 #65

Refusing to vote works too.

Refusing to vote might work if the majority of the population boycotts the polling. But if only some 2-3% is doing that, then no one is going to give a rat's a$$ about it.

Right.

And if everyone thought like you and continued to support a corrupt system, then nothing would ever change.

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June 01, 2014, 02:02:36 PM
 #66

Fuck you, I would love to vote for the Libertarian party in my country but they don't even show up in a lot of the polling stations!

That is the problem. What is the use in voting for a party, which is not even represented in most of the ballot papers? A better option might be to support the Libertarian section within the GOP.

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June 01, 2014, 02:05:37 PM
 #67

Bullshit, by voting for these people you are not only conforming to their system and their rules you are reinforcing political corruption and encouraging them to carry on as they are, here in the UK the main parties are absolutely terrified because of the mass low turnout and the fact that people are switching over to the minor parties, we had something like a 35% - 38% turnout in the local elections just recently and they are running around desperately trying to figure out how to get our votes and there is even a public debate and discussion going on about it.

Conformism is for cowards who aren't prepared to fight for real change, not taking part in a system is making a statement about that system itself because it requires people participating to exist.
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June 01, 2014, 05:02:11 PM
 #68

Fuck you, I would love to vote for the Libertarian party in my country but they don't even show up in a lot of the polling stations!

That is the problem. What is the use in voting for a party, which is not even represented in most of the ballot papers? A better option might be to support the Libertarian section within the GOP.
That is exactly what we need to do. I used to be an LP dues paying member from like age 14-25ish and went to the meetings and did petition drives but Ron Paul punched the libertarians ticket in the GOP and now it's alive and well. We now have Paul, Cruz and Lee in the US Senate and Amash, Massie, Sanford and a host of other great libertarian-leaning republicans in the House + more coming this next election. Many of us are party delegates as well as many tea party conservatives and we unite at county, district and state conventions to support the better leadership picks (anti-establishment). I use the LP nowadays merely as a protest vote since there's not much difference between a neocon and a liberal nutball unless the lib is very progressive in their civil liberties stances. But, the LP does field candidates where we have a great republican nominee (anti-establishment) and that pisses me off to no end and then they just become a pest, esp if they're bought and paid by the left.
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June 01, 2014, 05:06:57 PM
 #69

Opinions on Rand Paul?
I'd probably vote for him this time around

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June 01, 2014, 05:07:22 PM
 #70

Ron Paul punched the libertarians ticket in the GOP and now it's alive and well. We now have Paul, Cruz and Lee in the US Senate and Amash, Massie, Sanford and a host of other great libertarian-leaning republicans in the House + more coming this next election. Many of us are party delegates as well as many tea party conservatives and we unite at county, district and state conventions to support the better leadership picks (anti-establishment).

Yes. We should make sure that more Libertarian candidates are elected in the various Republican primaries. Also, whenever such a candidate is standing in the general elections, we should support him.

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June 01, 2014, 06:12:32 PM
 #71

Opinions on Rand Paul?
I'd probably vote for him this time around

The Libertarian party quite effectively summed up Rand Paul when they said he betrayed the core libertarian principles. There's a reason Paul caucuses with the GOP. His so called social libertarian positions (as far as marijuana is concerned) are only a compromise to pander to the younger GOP support base. In reality, he's far from libertarian views on society, and his views on same-sex marriage prove it.

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June 01, 2014, 06:20:27 PM
 #72

for many of us, those that have interest in new money and avoiding the coming relentless restraints place by the US govt inc, it's more beneficial to go to St. Kitts, Puerto Rico or some such place
Uh?
Isn't Puerto Rico an US territory?
Did I miss something?

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June 01, 2014, 06:23:47 PM
 #73

Opinions on Rand Paul?
I'd probably vote for him this time around

The Libertarian party quite effectively summed up Rand Paul when they said he betrayed the core libertarian principles. There's a reason Paul caucuses with the GOP. His so called social libertarian positions (as far as marijuana is concerned) are only a compromise to pander to the younger GOP support base. In reality, he's far from libertarian views on society, and his views on same-sex marriage prove it.

I wonder how he deviated so much from his father.

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June 01, 2014, 06:35:13 PM
 #74

Opinions on Rand Paul?
I'd probably vote for him this time around

The Libertarian party quite effectively summed up Rand Paul when they said he betrayed the core libertarian principles. There's a reason Paul caucuses with the GOP. His so called social libertarian positions (as far as marijuana is concerned) are only a compromise to pander to the younger GOP support base. In reality, he's far from libertarian views on society, and his views on same-sex marriage prove it.

I wonder how he deviated so much from his father.
He hasn't.
Quote
"We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul
Rand is just packaging the liberty message for broader appeal; something his dad was too set in his ways to do. Between the media demagoguing Ron's presentation of the issues and declaring him a kook/quixotic/unelectable, it's very important that Rand make his stances bullet proof from all that. Also, he's trying to reclaim the GOP from the neocons so his version of libertarian populism is working well especially on the NSA front.
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June 01, 2014, 06:38:35 PM
 #75

Quote
Quote
I wonder how he deviated so much from his father.
He hasn't.

Exactly.
He isn't that much different from Ron, in my opinion.
In fact, Ron Paul was more hardline on national defense, abortion and the like.
His post 9/11 positions were hardly a good defense of civil liberties

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June 01, 2014, 06:40:30 PM
 #76

Opinions on Rand Paul?
I'd probably vote for him this time around

After many decades, the American public might be having the opportunity to vote for a winnable Libertarian candidate in 2016. But it needs to be seen whether he will be able to win the GOP nomination.

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June 01, 2014, 06:50:13 PM
 #77

Opinions on Rand Paul?
I'd probably vote for him this time around

After many decades, the American public might be having the opportunity to vote for a winnable Libertarian candidate in 2016. But it needs to be seen whether he will be able to win the GOP nomination.

http://2016.republican-candidates.org/

Forgive my ignorance, but who are the most likely candidates in this camp?

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June 01, 2014, 08:06:10 PM
 #78

If the republican party had won the last election, it would be one of their morons reading out the speech about Snowden being a traitor, and should man-up and go live the rest of his life in a supermax....instead you have a democrat moron reading out the speech. ( sorry to drag this discussion back on theme )

Support the two platforms essential to protecting the identities of whistleblowers. Both accept bitcoin donations.
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June 01, 2014, 08:42:41 PM
 #79

If the republican party had won the last election, it would be one of their morons reading out the speech about Snowden being a traitor, and should man-up and go live the rest of his life in a supermax....instead you have a democrat moron reading out the speech. ( sorry to drag this discussion back on theme )
Snowden has to start own election campaign in RF, get a seat in the parliament along with legislative immunity. Then introduce for some anti-Obama bill to become sanctioned person... That would be the maximum trolling mode Cheesy


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June 01, 2014, 09:03:24 PM
 #80

Heh,

Hard to say what his next move could be. Eventually when all is said and done, he will only have one other option and that would be to return and face the music, either that of a grab team will get him and bring him back by force.

Support the two platforms essential to protecting the identities of whistleblowers. Both accept bitcoin donations.
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June 01, 2014, 09:05:18 PM
 #81

Daniel Ellsberg schools John Kerry on patriotism (and the Espionage Act)
Daniel Ellsberg is the whistleblower who was behind the release of the so-called "Pentagon Papers."

US Secretary of State John Kerry calls Ellsberg a "patriot" - and he calls Edward Snowden a "coward" and a "traitor."

Ellsberg says, "John Kerry is wrong" and that Snowden "is the greatest patriot whistleblower of our time" ...

h/t Bob Murphy: http://consultingbyrpm.com/blog/2014/05/ellsberg-vs-kerry-on-snowden.html

Snowden would not get a fair trial - and Kerry is wrong
Quote
Daniel Ellsberg (30 May 2014)

Edward Snowden is the greatest patriot whistleblower of our time, and he knows what I learned more than four decades ago: until the Espionage Act gets reformed, he can never come home safe and receive justice

John Kerry was in my mind Wednesday morning, and not because he had called me a patriot on NBC News. I was reading the lead story in the New York Times – "US Troops to Leave Afghanistan by End of 2016" – with a photo of American soldiers looking for caves. I recalled not the Secretary of State but a 27-year-old Kerry, asking, as he testified to the Senate about the US troops who were still in Vietnam and were to remain for another two years: How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?

I wondered how a 70-year-old Kerry would relate to that question as he looked at that picture and that headline. And then there he was on MSNBC an hour later, thinking about me, too, during a round of interviews about Afghanistan that inevitably turned to Edward Snowden ahead of my fellow whistleblower’s own primetime interview that night:

There are many a patriot – you can go back to the Pentagon Papers with Dan Ellsberg and others who stood and went to the court system of America and made their case. Edward Snowden is a coward, he is a traitor, and he has betrayed his country. And if he wants to come home tomorrow to face the music, he can do so.

On the Today show and CBS, Kerry complimented me again – and said Snowden "should man up and come back to the United States" to face charges. But John Kerry is wrong, because that's not the measure of patriotism when it comes to whistleblowing, for me or Snowden, who is facing the same criminal charges I did for exposing the Pentagon Papers.
Cont...http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel-ellsberg-snowden-fair-trial-kerry-espionage-act
Quote
John Kerry's challenge to Snowden to return and face trial is either disingenuous or simply ignorant that current prosecutions under the Espionage Act allow no distinction whatever between a patriotic whistleblower and a spy. Either way, nothing excuses Kerry's slanderous and despicable characterizations of a young man who, in my opinion, has done more than anyone in or out of government in this century to demonstrate his patriotism, moral courage and loyalty to the oath of office the three of us swore: to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.
The jury came back and Kerry is a jackass. Smiley
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June 02, 2014, 04:13:30 AM
 #82

"manning up" and "facing trial" with his charges of treason, it would be in a private military style tribunal.  he will not be seen again or be heard of.  no more interviews, do not pass go, do not collect $200
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June 02, 2014, 05:10:33 AM
 #83

http://2016.republican-candidates.org/

Forgive my ignorance, but who are the most likely candidates in this camp?

Check this:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_republican_presidential_nomination-3823.html

Right now Rand Paul and Jeb Bush are almost tied for the top spot.

And Paul is leading in NH:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nh/new_hampshire_republican_presidential_primary-3350.html

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June 02, 2014, 05:20:26 AM
 #84


I just threw up in my mouth a little bit at the thought of Jeb Bush winning the nomination.

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June 02, 2014, 05:53:32 AM
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Apparently Obama is Bush's 10th cousin :p

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June 02, 2014, 06:47:22 AM
 #86


i'm kind of tempted to bet the GOP candidate losing to hilary, mainly because the republicans don't have enough broad appeal. though i won't vote for hilary, i wouldn't mind putting my money on her.
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June 02, 2014, 06:57:55 AM
 #87

"manning up" and "facing trial" with his charges of treason, it would be in a private military style tribunal.  he will not be seen again or be heard of.  no more interviews, do not pass go, do not collect $200
They can force sex change surgery on him, turning him into Barbara or Tiffany Snowden. And nobody would be able to prevent this due to absence of public control.

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June 02, 2014, 07:00:37 AM
 #88

"manning up" and "facing trial" with his charges of treason, it would be in a private military style tribunal.  he will not be seen again or be heard of.  no more interviews, do not pass go, do not collect $200
They can force sex change surgery on him, turning him into Barbara or Tiffany Snowden. And nobody would be able to prevent this due to absence of public control.

well, um shit, that is a mindfuck.. "man up.. and get brainwashed into being a woman." and you know, that is something that could have happened to bradley MANNING.
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June 02, 2014, 07:42:04 AM
 #89

well, um shit, that is a mindfuck.. "man up.. and get brainwashed into being a woman." and you know, that is something that could have happened to bradley MANNING.

That is exactly what happened to Manning. The CIA taught a lesson to all of their detractors. Any similar whistle blower will face similar torture methods. Water-logging is primitive.. a forced sex change is even more modern.

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June 02, 2014, 08:50:24 AM
 #90

Kerry: Snowden should "man up" and do "his patriotic duty" to go to jail.
Quote
Washington: US Secretary of State John Kerry lashed out at fugitive Edward Snowden Wednesday, urging him to "man-up" and do his patriotic duty by returning home to face trial for leaking intelligence secrets.

Kerry's comments came only hours after Snowden alleged he was not just a low-level contractor working for the CIA, as the White House has repeatedly insisted.

"I was trained as a spy in sort of the traditional sense of the word in that I lived and worked undercover overseas -- pretending to work in a job that I'm not -- and even being assigned a name that was not mine," he told NBC.

In his first interview with US media, Snowden said he had worked covertly as "a technical expert" for the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency, and as a trainer for the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Kerry however denied that the State Department had trapped Snowden in Moscow, saying "for a supposedly smart guy, that's a pretty dumb answer, frankly." "If Mr Snowden wants to come back to the United States today, we'll have him on a flight today," Kerry told NBC.

"A patriot would not run away and look for refuge in Russia or Cuba or some other country," Kerry said. "A patriot would stand up in the United States and make his case to the American people."
More..http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/snowden-should-man-up-and-face-trial-kerry_935742.html
Yeah, be a patriot and come back to a kangaroo court. The O regime has come down hard on whistleblowers and yet they play this media game of "just come back and make your case" as if the deck wasn't already stacked against the person.

John Kerry kneels before Obama.

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June 02, 2014, 08:55:28 AM
 #91

I think the only way Snowden can go home is if he gets a presidential pardon at some point. 

well, um shit, that is a mindfuck.. "man up.. and get brainwashed into being a woman." and you know, that is something that could have happened to bradley MANNING.

That is exactly what happened to Manning. The CIA taught a lesson to all of their detractors. Any similar whistle blower will face similar torture methods. Water-logging is primitive.. a forced sex change is even more modern.

How the hell are they forcing a sex change on him exactly?

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June 02, 2014, 11:55:38 AM
 #92

I think the only way Snowden can go home is if he gets a presidential pardon at some point. 
And, as others have already pointed out in this thread, why should he ever believe them?
I wouldn't.

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June 02, 2014, 12:08:01 PM
 #93

I think the only way Snowden can go home is if he gets a presidential pardon at some point.  
And, as others have already pointed out in this thread, why should he ever believe them?
I wouldn't.


Well that's up to him, but aren't they legally binding? It's not going to look good if they publicly pardon him then it turns out it was just a sneaky trick to get him back. I'm sure he'd require something in writing or whatnot as well.

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June 02, 2014, 12:10:12 PM
 #94

Well that's up to him, but aren't they legally binding? It's not going to look good if they publicaly pardon him then it turns out it was just a sneaky trick to get him back. I'm sure he'd require something in writing or whatnot as well.
A nice Maginot line you are drawing here...

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June 02, 2014, 12:17:33 PM
 #95

Heh,

Hard to say what his next move could be. Eventually when all is said and done, he will only have one other option and that would be to return and face the music, either that of a grab team will get him and bring him back by force.

Snowden represents a genuine controversy in US Politics, with the teams divided on what should be done with him - both on the left and the right.

An open court trial would be very interesting.

It'd be a straight up contest of the Constitution versus the do-anything-attitude of the NSA, applied to a single individual.

The issue would be the conflict between the ideas embodied in something like the Pledge of Allegiance and the secrecy oath.
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June 02, 2014, 01:21:13 PM
 #96

An open court trial would be very interesting.

I don't think that the CIA will permit an open trial for Snowden. There is too much of classified information at stake. The CIA will raise objection and everything will be conducted secretly.

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June 02, 2014, 01:24:37 PM
 #97

He is standing trial in the court of public opinion. If Snowden is a traitor to the American government, Kerry is a traitor to the American people.

http://mises.org/daily/3229
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June 02, 2014, 01:43:22 PM
 #98

Meanwhile Snowden is keen to migrate to Brazil. IMO, he will be much safer in Russia.  Grin

Happy in Russia, but I’d love to live in Brazil – Snowden

http://rt.com/news/162976-edward-snowden-globo-interview

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June 02, 2014, 01:54:42 PM
 #99

He is standing trial in the court of public opinion. If Snowden is a traitor to the American government, Kerry is a traitor to the American people.
It's a most interesting controversy.  I don't know if Fox News or CNN or any of those channels can possibly catch these issues, with their bias mechanisms.

It'd be fascinating to do a "Mock Trial" in public, with 12 randomly picked jurors.
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June 02, 2014, 04:01:26 PM
 #100


i'm kind of tempted to bet the GOP candidate losing to hilary, mainly because the republicans don't have enough broad appeal. though i won't vote for hilary, i wouldn't mind putting my money on her.

I wouldn't consider Rand a frontrunner. CPAC and similar early straw polls tend to lean towards younger, libertarian (at least perceived libertarians) but establishment candidates are tough to beat in the larger states. Paul will probably struggle for donors in CA, TX, OH. Current trends shouldn't be taken as a reasonable projection by any means.

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June 02, 2014, 10:35:37 PM
 #101


i'm kind of tempted to bet the GOP candidate losing to hilary, mainly because the republicans don't have enough broad appeal. though i won't vote for hilary, i wouldn't mind putting my money on her.

I wouldn't consider Rand a frontrunner. Paul will probably struggle for donors in CA, TX, OH. Current trends shouldn't be taken as a reasonable projection by any means.

There's a lot going on behind the scenes in Paul's plans to run for the big house. He's got monthly meetings w/ big time donors of all groups, even former Romney and Bush guys.
Quote
The challenge for Paul at this stage, however, is not to persuade the American public of his policy correctness or his electability. Paul’s immediate target audience is an invisible primary electorate made up of influential party donors and power brokers, many of whom are relatively unfamiliar with Paul or wary of his political brand.

The process has involved relentlessly courting allies outside the traditional Libertarian core of support built up by his father, Ron Paul -- such as Rupert Murdoch, who accompanied Paul to this year's running of the Kentucky Derby.

But to land such meetings, Paul's political reputation alone does not always suffice, often requiring an assist from allies more connected to the mainstream Republican Party, such as Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

“You think Rupert Murdoch would have come to the Kentucky Derby with Rand if McConnell hadn't told him what a good guy he is?” said one Republican source with knowledge of the meeting. Indeed, since Paul has actively supported McConnell in his challenging re-election bid, McConnell has in return acted as an emissary of sorts for Paul with mainstream donors and party influencers. Then, once Paul gets in the room, his allies say, he’s gifted at closing the deal.


“When McConnell puts his arm on Rand's shoulder, he goes from a curiosity to a serious player,” the party source explained. “McConnell helps open the door, and Rand charges in.”

Also opening doors for Paul is Nate Morris, 33, a Kentucky-based businessman and former bundler for George W. Bush's 2004 presidential campaign, who boasts deep connections in the business community and a close friendship with Bush's former finance guru, Jack Oliver. Morris each month has been helping to set up several introductions between Paul and deep-pocketed GOP influencers.

Just as the Republican establishment has been slow to warm to Paul, support from the religious right — an important constituency in a Republican presidential primary — has also been somewhat elusive.

Paul began working to shore up support among religious conservatives with a trip to Israel early last year. The trip was the brainchild of David Lane, an evangelical activist with deep ties in Iowa, who has been at the center of Paul's efforts to appeal to the religious right. Also along for the ride were A.J. Spiker, the former Iowa Republican Party chairman who in March stepped down to steer Paul's PAC; now-former South Carolina GOP Chairman Chad Connelly; Mallory Factor, who holds influential meetings among conservative power brokers in New York and South Carolina; and Morris, among others.


But Paul has attracted the most notice for reaching far beyond the traditional Republican base of support — with a speech at Howard University in Washington, a historically black college, and by reaching out to black pastors.

“I haven't seen this kind of inclusive thinking since George W. Bush,” said one Republican familiar with Paul’s strategy. “He’s going places where Republicans typically won't go.”
cont...http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2548770

Also...
Quote
Rand Paul to headline “conservatarian” tech gathering in San Francisco

By Joe Garofoli

A likely 2016 GOP presidential candidate is coming to San Francisco this summer and — stop the presses — not to raise money. Well, no fundraiser are scheduled yet for Sen. Rand Paul, R-KY when he rolls into town in July.

The main reason he’s coming to town is to headline “Lincoln Labs Conference 2014: Reboot,” the conservatarian tech conference July 18-20 in San Francisco. The goal of the confab is to link the tech savvy of Silicon Valley with the political needs of conservative and libertarian – or “conservatarian” – America.

Also scheduled to be there is Nick Gillespie, editor in chief of Reason.org and Reason TV, the libertarian media hubs, and Rep. Cathy McMorris-Rodgers, R-WA, who will be “trying to see how Congress can adapt some of these (tech) tools to what they’re doing,” co-organizers Aaron Ginn told me. Also on the lineup is Joe Green, former Harvard roommate of Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg and co-founder of the issue advocacy group fwd.us. He’ll be there to talk about tech and immigration reform
http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2014/05/29/rand-paul-to-headline-conservatarian-tech-gathering-in-san-francisco/
I'm sure Peter Thiel is in there somewhere. Grin
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June 02, 2014, 10:38:57 PM
 #102

An open court trial would be very interesting.

I don't think that the CIA will permit an open trial for Snowden. There is too much of classified information at stake. The CIA will raise objection and everything will be conducted secretly.
And that is something they never publish in the media's hubub about Snowden and why he's doing what he's doing. And as I posted recently, the whistleblower protections have been eviscerated by the O regime and that's why you can't be Mr. Transparent and stay home and plead your case. It pisses me off that the media has this space to mislead people in particular cases like this. It's hard to blame many of the relatively innocent detractors because they aren't bombarded w/ that viewpoint like we all are.
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June 02, 2014, 11:33:06 PM
 #103

The modern 24 hour news cycle laundromats idea of critical analysis could be described as:
Dumbshit sockpuppet A says Snowden should return to face trial, so lets go to our panel of even dumber shits and lets hear them repeat what dumbshit sockpuppet A has to say, and we will fill an hour with nothing, coming to no conclusions other than slamming any experts on the subject who may try to interject some truth into the public discourse, while leaving the masses no more informed than if they stood in a corner and stared at the wall all day.

National media are generally lazy reporters who love having someone else write up articles for them which they merely need to spell check and repost. If not having the entire article prewritten, at least the talking points are pre ordained for them to follow, lazy, shallow faecal matter posing as news.

Add to that, sensationalism, and you have a 24 hour machine churning out horseshit by the trailer-load which is of little to no substance at all. A gift horse really for any government to manipulate, and they all have...

Support the two platforms essential to protecting the identities of whistleblowers. Both accept bitcoin donations.
https://globaleaks.org - GlobalLeaks ( btc: see http://goo.gl/D5wM0L )
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June 03, 2014, 12:30:36 AM
 #104

The modern 24 hour news cycle laundromats idea of critical analysis could be described as:
Dumbshit sockpuppet A says Snowden should return to face trial, so lets go to our panel of even dumber shits and lets hear them repeat what dumbshit sockpuppet A has to say, and we will fill an hour with nothing, coming to no conclusions other than slamming any experts on the subject who may try to interject some truth into the public discourse, while leaving the masses no more informed than if they stood in a corner and stared at the wall all day.

National media are generally lazy reporters who love having someone else write up articles for them which they merely need to spell check and repost. If not having the entire article prewritten, at least the talking points are pre ordained for them to follow, lazy, shallow faecal matter posing as news.

Add to that, sensationalism, and you have a 24 hour machine churning out horseshit by the trailer-load which is of little to no substance at all. A gift horse really for any government to manipulate, and they all have...
Well, sort of....not....

because your very comment on the ALTERNATIVE media system indicates the futility of these machinations...
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June 03, 2014, 04:16:31 AM
 #105

An open court trial would be very interesting.

I don't think that the CIA will permit an open trial for Snowden. There is too much of classified information at stake. The CIA will raise objection and everything will be conducted secretly.

there is no public or jury trial for snowden's charges. 

from what i recall, snowden claims he does not have any of the data he took.  he gave all to several of the major media outlets and asked them to consult with government officials in regards to releasing information to the public.
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June 03, 2014, 04:35:24 AM
 #106

I wouldn't consider Rand a frontrunner. CPAC and similar early straw polls tend to lean towards younger, libertarian (at least perceived libertarians) but establishment candidates are tough to beat in the larger states. Paul will probably struggle for donors in CA, TX, OH. Current trends shouldn't be taken as a reasonable projection by any means.

No one is over-estimating his chances. But you will have to agree that his chances of getting the GOP nomination for the POTUS 2016 is much greater than that Rand Paul ever had in POTUS 2008 and POTUS 2012.

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June 03, 2014, 05:36:09 AM
 #107

I wouldn't consider Rand a frontrunner. CPAC and similar early straw polls tend to lean towards younger, libertarian (at least perceived libertarians) but establishment candidates are tough to beat in the larger states. Paul will probably struggle for donors in CA, TX, OH. Current trends shouldn't be taken as a reasonable projection by any means.

No one is over-estimating his chances. But you will have to agree that his chances of getting the GOP nomination for the POTUS 2016 is much greater than that Rand Paul ever had in POTUS 2008 and POTUS 2012.

This could be the perfect moment for him. Americans always over correct when one party has been in power. Rand is about the furthest you can get ideologically from Obama and that is what voters will be looking for. 

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June 03, 2014, 05:51:57 AM
 #108

This could be the perfect moment for him. Americans always over correct when one party has been in power. Rand is about the furthest you can get ideologically from Obama and that is what voters will be looking for. 

Exactly. If we could some how tame the neocon Repubs and the religious nut Repubs, Rand will be able to secure the nomination. And he will be having a realistic chance against Hillary as well, as the youth will be more supportive.

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June 03, 2014, 05:54:08 AM
 #109

An open court trial would be very interesting.

I don't think that the CIA will permit an open trial for Snowden. There is too much of classified information at stake. The CIA will raise objection and everything will be conducted secretly.

I agree the CIA would force the judge to not include evidence in the trial.
Sometimes deciding what is not fit for the trial or applicable to it can make or break the result.
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June 03, 2014, 06:18:17 AM
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i'm kind of tempted to bet the GOP candidate losing to hilary, mainly because the republicans don't have enough broad appeal. though i won't vote for hilary, i wouldn't mind putting my money on her.

I wouldn't consider Rand a frontrunner. CPAC and similar early straw polls tend to lean towards younger, libertarian (at least perceived libertarians) but establishment candidates are tough to beat in the larger states. Paul will probably struggle for donors in CA, TX, OH. Current trends shouldn't be taken as a reasonable projection by any means.

FYI, those pollsters seem to manipulate the numbers.. i wonder if it's politics, or if it's people making money off of these  futures estimates.
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June 03, 2014, 12:39:24 PM
 #111

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/734533

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June 03, 2014, 01:24:47 PM
 #112


They should extend his visa indefinitely. Doing that at this time will send a strong message to Obama and the CIA, who are doing everything they can to destabilize the world nations.

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June 03, 2014, 02:15:32 PM
 #113

Unfortunately for him, his passport has been revoked by the US authorities. So he can't simply get a visa, he need temporary asylum. It's not a visa, it's some kind of temporary citizenship... He required to make photos, fill form etc and then wait when his new ID card will be issued. So, unlike visa stamp in the passport, this could take some time.

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June 03, 2014, 02:43:36 PM
 #114

Unfortunately for him, his passport has been revoked by the US authorities. So he can't simply get a visa, he need temporary asylum. It's not a visa, it's some kind of temporary citizenship... He required to make photos, fill form etc and then wait when his new ID card will be issued. So, unlike visa stamp in the passport, this could take some time.

Hmm.. for now he is stuck in Russia. He might be able to travel to China or Belarus, as Russia shares a border with these nations. But it is impossible right now, for him to travel to Venezuela or Cuba. I hope he gets his renewal of the temporary asylum without any delay.

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