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Author Topic: Snowden should 'man-up' and face trial: says SOS John Kerry  (Read 3971 times)
Chef Ramsay
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June 01, 2014, 09:05:18 PM
 #81

Daniel Ellsberg schools John Kerry on patriotism (and the Espionage Act)
Daniel Ellsberg is the whistleblower who was behind the release of the so-called "Pentagon Papers."

US Secretary of State John Kerry calls Ellsberg a "patriot" - and he calls Edward Snowden a "coward" and a "traitor."

Ellsberg says, "John Kerry is wrong" and that Snowden "is the greatest patriot whistleblower of our time" ...

h/t Bob Murphy: http://consultingbyrpm.com/blog/2014/05/ellsberg-vs-kerry-on-snowden.html

Snowden would not get a fair trial - and Kerry is wrong
Quote
Daniel Ellsberg (30 May 2014)

Edward Snowden is the greatest patriot whistleblower of our time, and he knows what I learned more than four decades ago: until the Espionage Act gets reformed, he can never come home safe and receive justice

John Kerry was in my mind Wednesday morning, and not because he had called me a patriot on NBC News. I was reading the lead story in the New York Times – "US Troops to Leave Afghanistan by End of 2016" – with a photo of American soldiers looking for caves. I recalled not the Secretary of State but a 27-year-old Kerry, asking, as he testified to the Senate about the US troops who were still in Vietnam and were to remain for another two years: How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?

I wondered how a 70-year-old Kerry would relate to that question as he looked at that picture and that headline. And then there he was on MSNBC an hour later, thinking about me, too, during a round of interviews about Afghanistan that inevitably turned to Edward Snowden ahead of my fellow whistleblower’s own primetime interview that night:

There are many a patriot – you can go back to the Pentagon Papers with Dan Ellsberg and others who stood and went to the court system of America and made their case. Edward Snowden is a coward, he is a traitor, and he has betrayed his country. And if he wants to come home tomorrow to face the music, he can do so.

On the Today show and CBS, Kerry complimented me again – and said Snowden "should man up and come back to the United States" to face charges. But John Kerry is wrong, because that's not the measure of patriotism when it comes to whistleblowing, for me or Snowden, who is facing the same criminal charges I did for exposing the Pentagon Papers.
Cont...http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel-ellsberg-snowden-fair-trial-kerry-espionage-act
Quote
John Kerry's challenge to Snowden to return and face trial is either disingenuous or simply ignorant that current prosecutions under the Espionage Act allow no distinction whatever between a patriotic whistleblower and a spy. Either way, nothing excuses Kerry's slanderous and despicable characterizations of a young man who, in my opinion, has done more than anyone in or out of government in this century to demonstrate his patriotism, moral courage and loyalty to the oath of office the three of us swore: to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.
The jury came back and Kerry is a jackass. Smiley
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June 02, 2014, 04:13:30 AM
 #82

"manning up" and "facing trial" with his charges of treason, it would be in a private military style tribunal.  he will not be seen again or be heard of.  no more interviews, do not pass go, do not collect $200
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June 02, 2014, 05:10:33 AM
 #83

http://2016.republican-candidates.org/

Forgive my ignorance, but who are the most likely candidates in this camp?

Check this:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_republican_presidential_nomination-3823.html

Right now Rand Paul and Jeb Bush are almost tied for the top spot.

And Paul is leading in NH:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nh/new_hampshire_republican_presidential_primary-3350.html
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June 02, 2014, 05:20:26 AM
 #84


I just threw up in my mouth a little bit at the thought of Jeb Bush winning the nomination.

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June 02, 2014, 05:53:32 AM
 #85

Apparently Obama is Bush's 10th cousin :p

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beetcoin
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June 02, 2014, 06:47:22 AM
 #86


i'm kind of tempted to bet the GOP candidate losing to hilary, mainly because the republicans don't have enough broad appeal. though i won't vote for hilary, i wouldn't mind putting my money on her.
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June 02, 2014, 06:57:55 AM
 #87

"manning up" and "facing trial" with his charges of treason, it would be in a private military style tribunal.  he will not be seen again or be heard of.  no more interviews, do not pass go, do not collect $200
They can force sex change surgery on him, turning him into Barbara or Tiffany Snowden. And nobody would be able to prevent this due to absence of public control.

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June 02, 2014, 07:00:37 AM
 #88

"manning up" and "facing trial" with his charges of treason, it would be in a private military style tribunal.  he will not be seen again or be heard of.  no more interviews, do not pass go, do not collect $200
They can force sex change surgery on him, turning him into Barbara or Tiffany Snowden. And nobody would be able to prevent this due to absence of public control.

well, um shit, that is a mindfuck.. "man up.. and get brainwashed into being a woman." and you know, that is something that could have happened to bradley MANNING.
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June 02, 2014, 07:42:04 AM
 #89

well, um shit, that is a mindfuck.. "man up.. and get brainwashed into being a woman." and you know, that is something that could have happened to bradley MANNING.

That is exactly what happened to Manning. The CIA taught a lesson to all of their detractors. Any similar whistle blower will face similar torture methods. Water-logging is primitive.. a forced sex change is even more modern.
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June 02, 2014, 08:50:24 AM
 #90

Kerry: Snowden should "man up" and do "his patriotic duty" to go to jail.
Quote
Washington: US Secretary of State John Kerry lashed out at fugitive Edward Snowden Wednesday, urging him to "man-up" and do his patriotic duty by returning home to face trial for leaking intelligence secrets.

Kerry's comments came only hours after Snowden alleged he was not just a low-level contractor working for the CIA, as the White House has repeatedly insisted.

"I was trained as a spy in sort of the traditional sense of the word in that I lived and worked undercover overseas -- pretending to work in a job that I'm not -- and even being assigned a name that was not mine," he told NBC.

In his first interview with US media, Snowden said he had worked covertly as "a technical expert" for the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency, and as a trainer for the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Kerry however denied that the State Department had trapped Snowden in Moscow, saying "for a supposedly smart guy, that's a pretty dumb answer, frankly." "If Mr Snowden wants to come back to the United States today, we'll have him on a flight today," Kerry told NBC.

"A patriot would not run away and look for refuge in Russia or Cuba or some other country," Kerry said. "A patriot would stand up in the United States and make his case to the American people."
More..http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/snowden-should-man-up-and-face-trial-kerry_935742.html
Yeah, be a patriot and come back to a kangaroo court. The O regime has come down hard on whistleblowers and yet they play this media game of "just come back and make your case" as if the deck wasn't already stacked against the person.

John Kerry kneels before Obama.

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June 02, 2014, 08:55:28 AM
 #91

I think the only way Snowden can go home is if he gets a presidential pardon at some point. 

well, um shit, that is a mindfuck.. "man up.. and get brainwashed into being a woman." and you know, that is something that could have happened to bradley MANNING.

That is exactly what happened to Manning. The CIA taught a lesson to all of their detractors. Any similar whistle blower will face similar torture methods. Water-logging is primitive.. a forced sex change is even more modern.

How the hell are they forcing a sex change on him exactly?

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June 02, 2014, 11:55:38 AM
 #92

I think the only way Snowden can go home is if he gets a presidential pardon at some point. 
And, as others have already pointed out in this thread, why should he ever believe them?
I wouldn't.

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June 02, 2014, 12:08:01 PM
 #93

I think the only way Snowden can go home is if he gets a presidential pardon at some point.  
And, as others have already pointed out in this thread, why should he ever believe them?
I wouldn't.


Well that's up to him, but aren't they legally binding? It's not going to look good if they publicly pardon him then it turns out it was just a sneaky trick to get him back. I'm sure he'd require something in writing or whatnot as well.

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June 02, 2014, 12:10:12 PM
 #94

Well that's up to him, but aren't they legally binding? It's not going to look good if they publicaly pardon him then it turns out it was just a sneaky trick to get him back. I'm sure he'd require something in writing or whatnot as well.
A nice Maginot line you are drawing here...

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June 02, 2014, 12:17:33 PM
 #95

Heh,

Hard to say what his next move could be. Eventually when all is said and done, he will only have one other option and that would be to return and face the music, either that of a grab team will get him and bring him back by force.

Snowden represents a genuine controversy in US Politics, with the teams divided on what should be done with him - both on the left and the right.

An open court trial would be very interesting.

It'd be a straight up contest of the Constitution versus the do-anything-attitude of the NSA, applied to a single individual.

The issue would be the conflict between the ideas embodied in something like the Pledge of Allegiance and the secrecy oath.
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June 02, 2014, 01:21:13 PM
 #96

An open court trial would be very interesting.

I don't think that the CIA will permit an open trial for Snowden. There is too much of classified information at stake. The CIA will raise objection and everything will be conducted secretly.
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June 02, 2014, 01:24:37 PM
 #97

He is standing trial in the court of public opinion. If Snowden is a traitor to the American government, Kerry is a traitor to the American people.

http://mises.org/daily/3229
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June 02, 2014, 01:43:22 PM
 #98

Meanwhile Snowden is keen to migrate to Brazil. IMO, he will be much safer in Russia.  Grin

Happy in Russia, but I’d love to live in Brazil – Snowden

http://rt.com/news/162976-edward-snowden-globo-interview
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June 02, 2014, 01:54:42 PM
 #99

He is standing trial in the court of public opinion. If Snowden is a traitor to the American government, Kerry is a traitor to the American people.
It's a most interesting controversy.  I don't know if Fox News or CNN or any of those channels can possibly catch these issues, with their bias mechanisms.

It'd be fascinating to do a "Mock Trial" in public, with 12 randomly picked jurors.
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June 02, 2014, 04:01:26 PM
 #100


i'm kind of tempted to bet the GOP candidate losing to hilary, mainly because the republicans don't have enough broad appeal. though i won't vote for hilary, i wouldn't mind putting my money on her.

I wouldn't consider Rand a frontrunner. CPAC and similar early straw polls tend to lean towards younger, libertarian (at least perceived libertarians) but establishment candidates are tough to beat in the larger states. Paul will probably struggle for donors in CA, TX, OH. Current trends shouldn't be taken as a reasonable projection by any means.

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