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Author Topic: Alternative distribution of initial coins  (Read 1611 times)
jonald_fyookball
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June 02, 2014, 10:47:08 PM
 #21

What problem are you trying to solve other than "I don't mine so I don't like it that other people get subsidized coins"?  The primary purpose of mining is to secure the network.  Any system that discourages mining is working against the basic interests of the network.

I'm not trying to come up with a network that discourages mining, that should be rewarded as much as possible. I was just thinking how I could encourage some actual usage too.

It would be nice for people to be able to earn some coins, without expensive hardware, just by participating and some luck. There was a time Bitcoin had lots of faucets for that purpose, but that was just giving away free money to anyone who asked, causing lots of fraud. While my automated approach only gives it to the people that deserve it (those who make actual transactions and paying the fees for that). The end result is that the coins are more evenly distributed across the world population, and you can't possibly be against that?


There are many alt coins that have lottery functions (lucky coin) and other proof of stake coins that reward you for "participating".  You should check them out.  Also look into X11 algo which gets people back to CPU mining.

The ship has already sailed for Bitcoin and its fundamental nature /distribution mechanism isn't going to change so if it's Bitcoin you want to affect, you need to find another way to give out coins (cool contests, etc)

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Muis (OP)
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June 02, 2014, 11:03:45 PM
Last edit: June 02, 2014, 11:23:48 PM by Muis
 #22

Does Visa randomly give away a bunch of money every 10 minutes to those that made a purchase in the previous 10 minutes?  

Would it be a bad thing for you if they did?

There are many alt coins that have lottery functions (lucky coin) and other proof of stake coins that reward you for "participating".

I'm familar with Proof-of-Stake, but it does the opposite. It doesnt reward any real participation, it rewards hoarding (instead of making transactions). Also, it makes the rich even richer, and thats just what Im trying to avoid here. With PoS you have more chance based on the amount of coins you own, while with this your chance does not depend on how much you already have.

As for Lucky Coin, I just took a look at it and prizes are awarded only to the miners, not to the general public, so not not really comparable except for the lottery element.
jonald_fyookball
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June 02, 2014, 11:09:36 PM
 #23

Does Visa randomly give away a bunch of money every 10 minutes to those that made a purchase in the previous 10 minutes? 

Would it be a bad thing for you if they did?

There are many alt coins that have lottery functions (lucky coin) and other proof of stake coins that reward you for "participating".

I'm familar with Proof-of-Stake, but it does the opposite. It doesnt reward any real participation, it rewards hoarding (instead of making transactions). Also, it makes the rich even richer, and thats just what Im trying to avoid here. With PoS you have more chance based on the amount of coins you own, while with this your chance does not depend on how much you already have.

check out freicoin... it has a 5% annual holding fee.

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June 02, 2014, 11:40:07 PM
 #24

Just go ahead and make your transaction coin.  Or If you want I could probably program it up for you for about 5 BTC, though I'd only make a linux client.

Guide to armory offline install on USB key:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241730.0
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June 03, 2014, 07:10:34 AM
 #25

Wouldn't it be much more fair to give miners only the TX-fees, and pay a reward to some random stranger (transaction) in that block?

Basically no one would mine then.

Miners will fill block with their own transactions (transferring bitcoins from left pocket to right) to increase their "profits" (chance to win reward).
This causes death of network very soon.
shorena
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June 03, 2014, 07:44:35 AM
 #26

Does Visa randomly give away a bunch of money every 10 minutes to those that made a purchase in the previous 10 minutes?  

Would it be a bad thing for you if they did?

Yes. The money visa gives away has to come from somewhere. Same as with your coin btw but lets stay with the visa example. Where could visa get the money from?
- increase tx cost
- lower profit

If you increase the tx cost everyone pays for the lucky ones. Now some have a little more from time to time but you have an overal increase of prices. I think its more fair if the overal prices stay low. This idea sounds like a very bad tax to me. If everyone is giving a little to help the few. Shouldnt those few be those that really need it and not someone random?

Lowering the profit will not happen. Youd have to enforce this by law. But thats out of your reach.

Im not really here, its just your imagination.
Muis (OP)
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June 03, 2014, 09:42:22 AM
Last edit: June 03, 2014, 10:07:39 AM by Muis
 #27


Yes. The money visa gives away has to come from somewhere. Same as with your coin btw but lets stay with the visa example. Where could visa get the money from?

- increase tx cost
- lower profit


There is a good chance they wouldn't have to increase the tx costs, or lower their profits. In the situation where they actually started doing this, people might use their creditcard more often and using the extra profit this generates, Visa would be able to pay out prizes. They don't gain anything by doing it, but they wouldn't make a loss out of it either.

But your main point is 'the money has to come from somewhere', and for a crypto-currency that's not really relevant, unless you can explain where Bitcoin's 21 million coins come from?

Miners will fill block with their own transactions (transferring bitcoins from left pocket to right) to increase their "profits" (chance to win reward).

Ofcourse, this must be prevented. I already suggested a couple of fixes for this (like requiring them to broadcast transactions to the network before including them), but if it turns out no solution for this is possible, then this coin cannot exist. But even in that case, I'm still curious about the philosophical/economical implications of such a network, since I wasn't planning on actually developing it anyway.
shorena
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June 03, 2014, 10:48:00 AM
 #28

-snip-
But your main point is 'the money has to come from somewhere', and for a crypto-currency that's not really relevant, unless you can explain where Bitcoin's 21 million coins come from?
-snip-

My main point is indeed the money has to come from somewhere. If Visa gets more customers because of the lottery part, the value comes from those that previously used Mastercard (lets say there are only those 2). So Mastercard would react and do the same to get the lost customers back. Maybe up the ante and increase the chance a little or some other marketing nonsense. Now we face the same problem as before. Where does the added money come from?
I undetstand that you want to redistribute money. I understand why you consider this fair. But thats not what a currency is about imho. Thats what a social state does. It spends taxes to help those in need. I dont see a way for a currency to handle this intrinsically. Hell even welfare states cant do this properly.

Im not really here, its just your imagination.
jonald_fyookball
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June 03, 2014, 12:48:44 PM
 #29

Look into a CPU based coin.  That way everyone can mine and get a "fair" reward.  Honestly, I think there are room for a few cryptos....and probably the best CPU mining coin will survive...it's just which one?  Could be the coin that's best suited for micro payments as well.

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