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Author Topic: Public P2Pool, how?  (Read 5142 times)
ThiagoCMC
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February 14, 2012, 04:13:46 AM
 #1

Guys,

 I would like to setup a Public P2Pool for anyone that doesn't have knowledge / time to setup its own P2Pool node...

 How can I do it?! I mean, how people can use my P2Pool node and receive the payment on his own Bitcoin Address, not giving hashpower to me, of course...

 Also, I would like to give people the possibility of merged mining too...

Thanks!
Thiago

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Gerald Davis


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February 14, 2012, 04:17:41 AM
 #2

If you need to ask it likely is beyond your technical abilities (no insult intended) but here is a top level view.

Your node will use a single address for p2pool.  As far as p2pool is concerned your entire pool is a single miner.

Users will created worker accounts and request work from your pool server.  
Your pool server will pull work from p2pool acting as a relay.
All payments from p2pool for completed blocks will go to your reward address.  
You will keep track of shares produced by workers to provide compensation via whatever method you choose (PPS, PPLNS, etc).
You will payout workers based on shares you record on the pool side and are compensated by p2pool for work completed on p2pool side.

Merged mining would work the same way except NMC blocks found by the pool would simply be paid to you directly.  You would compensate workers however you wish (same split as BTC payout, tracking NMC shares independently, selling NMC for BTC and using it to payout higher BTC per share, etc).
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February 14, 2012, 04:43:59 AM
 #3

Guys,

 I would like to setup a Public P2Pool for anyone that doesn't have knowledge / time to setup its own P2Pool node...

 How can I do it?! I mean, how people can use my P2Pool node and receive the payment on his own Bitcoin Address, not giving hashpower to me, of course...

 Also, I would like to give people the possibility of merged mining too...

Thanks!
Thiago

honestly a better option might be to setup a p2pool vm service, where people pay .05 btc a month to mine, and you set them up with a p2pool ubuntu vm or something, all configured.. its not like p2pool requires any guts to run right?
ThiagoCMC
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February 14, 2012, 04:48:13 AM
 #4

Guys,

 I would like to setup a Public P2Pool for anyone that doesn't have knowledge / time to setup its own P2Pool node...

 How can I do it?! I mean, how people can use my P2Pool node and receive the payment on his own Bitcoin Address, not giving hashpower to me, of course...

 Also, I would like to give people the possibility of merged mining too...

Thanks!
Thiago

honestly a better option might be to setup a p2pool vm service, where people pay .05 btc a month to mine, and you set them up with a p2pool ubuntu vm or something, all configured.. its not like p2pool requires any guts to run right?


You read my mind.

I can provide this service... But 0.05 BTC a month isn't enough... Maybe I can setup a little fee at P2Pool node that I manage.

You think that there is a market for "P2Pool Private Hosting Service"?!

Thanks!
Thiago

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rjk
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1ngldh


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February 14, 2012, 05:01:36 AM
 #5

Maybe try contacting p2poolparty [at] yahoo.com - that service was exactly what you are looking for, but seems to be unmaintained right now.

The stats page still works, but mining doesn't. http://p2poolparty.net/stats.html

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February 14, 2012, 05:12:48 AM
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If you simply run a P2Pool node, miners can connect to it over port 9332 with their username as their bitcoin address and mine to their address. Several people have already done this (p2poolparty being one of them, my node @ p2pool.forre.st being another). Nothing complex and no programming is required.

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ThiagoCMC
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February 14, 2012, 05:15:21 AM
 #7

If you simply run a P2Pool node, miners can connect to it over port 9332 with their username as their bitcoin address and mine to their address. Several people have already done this (p2poolparty being one of them, my node @ p2pool.forre.st being another). Nothing complex and no programming is required.

WOW! Sounds very easy!
Thanks!

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rjk
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1ngldh


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February 14, 2012, 05:19:14 AM
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If you simply run a P2Pool node, miners can connect to it over port 9332 with their username as their bitcoin address and mine to their address. Several people have already done this (p2poolparty being one of them, my node @ p2pool.forre.st being another). Nothing complex and no programming is required.
I thought p2poolparty was handing out diff 1 shares though? If not, perhaps the diff was so low when I tried it that it wasn't noticeable.

A frontend that handed out diff 1 shares would be cool, but obviously more complicated - needing a payout script and a wallet.

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twmz
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February 14, 2012, 05:29:09 AM
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If you simply run a P2Pool node, miners can connect to it over port 9332 with their username as their bitcoin address and mine to their address. Several people have already done this (p2poolparty being one of them, my node @ p2pool.forre.st being another). Nothing complex and no programming is required.
I thought p2poolparty was handing out diff 1 shares though? If not, perhaps the diff was so low when I tried it that it wasn't noticeable.

A frontend that handed out diff 1 shares would be cool, but obviously more complicated - needing a payout script and a wallet.

P2Pool already hands out work that is way less than the actual share difficulty.  It normally starts that at 1 and then adjusts it up to keep the impact of miner requests resonably low (for me, they are difficulty 3).  Maybe p2poolparty just edited the code to keep them always at 1. 

In any case, p2pool is smart enough to ignore submitted shares that don't meet the requirements of the real share difficulty.

Now, if you want to actually pay people based on diff 1 shares, then you have to make your own frontend to p2pool (a proxy pool) and deal with all overhead, etc.  But I don't think that was what ThiagoCMC was asking about.  I think he was just asking how to setup a public p2pool instance that everyone could use in "normal p2pool mode" but without having to figure out how to install it themselves. 

That's basically what p2poolparty is, but having more of them doesn't hurt.

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Gerald Davis


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February 14, 2012, 05:30:31 AM
 #10

P2Pool already hands out work that is way less than the actual share difficulty.  It normally starts that at 1 and then adjusts it up to keep the impact of miner requests resonably low (for me, they are difficulty 3).  Maybe p2poolparty just edited the code to keep them always at 1.  

Um not sure which p2pool you are running but share difficulty hasn't ever been 3.  Maybe 30 but even 30 was a loooooooooooooonng time ago.
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February 14, 2012, 05:34:10 AM
 #11

If you simply run a P2Pool node, miners can connect to it over port 9332 with their username as their bitcoin address and mine to their address. Several people have already done this (p2poolparty being one of them, my node @ p2pool.forre.st being another). Nothing complex and no programming is required.
I thought p2poolparty was handing out diff 1 shares though? If not, perhaps the diff was so low when I tried it that it wasn't noticeable.

A frontend that handed out diff 1 shares would be cool, but obviously more complicated - needing a payout script and a wallet.

P2Pool already hands out work that is way less than the actual share difficulty.  It normally starts that at 1 and then adjusts it up to keep the impact of miner requests resonably low (for me, they are difficulty 3).  Maybe p2poolparty just edited the code to keep them always at 1. 

In any case, p2pool is smart enough to ignore submitted shares that don't meet the requirements of the real share difficulty.

Now, if you want to actually pay people based on diff 1 shares, then you have to make your own frontend to p2pool (a proxy pool) and deal with all overhead, etc.  But I don't think that was what ThiagoCMC was asking about.  I think he was just asking how to setup a public p2pool instance that everyone could use in "normal p2pool mode" but without having to figure out how to install it themselves. 

That's basically what p2poolparty is, but having more of them doesn't hurt.
Hmm. I didn't see that myself, I thought the difficulty was uniform across the network, and I had been getting shares at 130 diff or higher. The proxy/frontend could be useful for low rate CPU miners, and could charge a fee if necessary.

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Gerald Davis


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February 14, 2012, 05:40:51 AM
 #12

Hmm. I didn't see that myself, I thought the difficulty was uniform across the network, and I had been getting shares at 130 diff or higher. The proxy/frontend could be useful for low rate CPU miners, and could charge a fee if necessary.

It is.  Difficulty isn't 3 and never has been even day 1 of p2pool difficulty was higher than 3.  Not sure where he got that idea.

Lower difficulty front ends will be more useful/important as p2pool grows.

Share difficulty is roughly = (network GH/s) * 0.5
So if p2pool ever hit 1TH difficulty would be ~500.  At difficulty 500 a 400 MH/s miner would only earn 1 share every 90 minutes.  And with normal variance that could be as much as 3 to 4 hours.  As difficulty continues to rise there will be more and more demand for proxies and frontends which act as variance "buffers".
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February 14, 2012, 05:48:34 AM
 #13

Guys,

 I would like to setup a Public P2Pool for anyone that doesn't have knowledge / time to setup its own P2Pool node...

 How can I do it?! I mean, how people can use my P2Pool node and receive the payment on his own Bitcoin Address, not giving hashpower to me, of course...

 Also, I would like to give people the possibility of merged mining too...

Thanks!
Thiago

honestly a better option might be to setup a p2pool vm service, where people pay .05 btc a month to mine, and you set them up with a p2pool ubuntu vm or something, all configured.. its not like p2pool requires any guts to run right?


You read my mind.

I can provide this service... But 0.05 BTC a month isn't enough... Maybe I can setup a little fee at P2Pool node that I manage.

You think that there is a market for "P2Pool Private Hosting Service"?!

Thanks!
Thiago

I dont see why not I mean really there are probably a good number of persons interested in this, and if it can be done as easy as a pool.. why not?

.05 btc a month might be a little low, but it would depend on how many p2pool hosts you could run on a single vm. and the other fees involved.

edit: NM not needed sounds like p2pool is already good to go!


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February 14, 2012, 05:52:08 AM
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It is.  Difficulty isn't 3 and never has been even day 1 of p2pool difficulty was higher than 3.  Not sure where he got that idea.

Read what I wrote again more carefully.  P2Pool hands out low difficulty shares to miners.

2012-02-13 23:49:52.854231 New work for worker! Difficulty: 3.120516 Share difficulty: 619.661413 Total block value: 50.043000 BTC including 102 transactions

So if you connect to a public p2pool node, from your miner's perspective you will see low difficulty pseudoshares.  The only way you ever know that the real shares are higher difficulty is by seeing the console output (which someone only connecting to a public p2pool node will not see).

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eviltt
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February 14, 2012, 05:53:47 AM
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Hmm. I didn't see that myself, I thought the difficulty was uniform across the network, and I had been getting shares at 130 diff or higher. The proxy/frontend could be useful for low rate CPU miners, and could charge a fee if necessary.

It is.  Difficulty isn't 3 and never has been even day 1 of p2pool difficulty was higher than 3.  Not sure where he got that idea.

Lower difficulty front ends will be more useful/important as p2pool grows.

Share difficulty is roughly = (network GH/s) * 0.5
So if p2pool ever hit 1TH difficulty would be ~500.  At difficulty 500 a 400 MH/s miner would only earn 1 share every 90 minutes.  And with normal variance that could be as much as 3 to 4 hours.  As difficulty continues to rise there will be more and more demand for proxies and frontends which act as variance "buffers".

variance blows.. been mining with 1.6gh for the last 2 hours without earning a share Sad
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1ngldh


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February 14, 2012, 05:53:59 AM
 #16

It is.  Difficulty isn't 3 and never has been even day 1 of p2pool difficulty was higher than 3.  Not sure where he got that idea.

Read what I wrote again more carefully.  P2Pool hands out low difficulty shares to miners.

2012-02-13 23:49:52.854231 New work for worker! Difficulty: 3.120516 Share difficulty: 619.661413 Total block value: 50.043000 BTC including 102 transactions

So if you connect to a public p2pool node, from your miner's perspective you will see low difficulty pseudoshares.  The only way you ever know that the real shares are higher difficulty is by seeing the console output (which someone only connecting to a public p2pool node will not see).
Is that a new feature? I don't remember any such thing.

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February 14, 2012, 06:00:36 AM
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It is.  Difficulty isn't 3 and never has been even day 1 of p2pool difficulty was higher than 3.  Not sure where he got that idea.

Read what I wrote again more carefully.  P2Pool hands out low difficulty shares to miners.

2012-02-13 23:49:52.854231 New work for worker! Difficulty: 3.120516 Share difficulty: 619.661413 Total block value: 50.043000 BTC including 102 transactions

So if you connect to a public p2pool node, from your miner's perspective you will see low difficulty pseudoshares.  The only way you ever know that the real shares are higher difficulty is by seeing the console output (which someone only connecting to a public p2pool node will not see).
Is that a new feature? I don't remember any such thing.

I think it was added relatively recently.  Maybe 3-4 weeks ago?

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Gerald Davis


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February 14, 2012, 06:04:32 AM
 #18

It is.  Difficulty isn't 3 and never has been even day 1 of p2pool difficulty was higher than 3.  Not sure where he got that idea.

Read what I wrote again more carefully.  P2Pool hands out low difficulty shares to miners.

I stand corrected.  Seems a useless "feature".  Those lower shares are worthless.  Completing them doesn't get you into the share chain thus when block is found you will not be compensated for anything less than share difficulty shares.

Thanks for that correction although I do wonder why it doesn't just hand out 619.66 difficulty shares?

Still front-ends can provide a service by reducing variance for smaller miners. 

One way to look at it.

solo mining = 1.3 million difficulty "share".
p2pool = 619 difficulty share
front end = 1 difficulty share

as share difficulty rises so does the effect of variance in the short run.  Eventually direct mining p2pool will be very difficult for small/casual miners.  Rather than have those miners go to traditional pools having "p2pool frontends" act as variance buffers would be preferable. 
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February 14, 2012, 06:12:44 AM
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I stand corrected.  Seems a useless "feature".  Those lower shares are worthless.  Completing them doesn't get you into the share chain thus when block is found you will not be compensated for anything less than share difficulty shares.

Thanks for that correction although I do wonder why it doesn't just hand out 619.66 difficulty shares?

I think it was added to make debugging miners easier.  instead of having to wait ages for your miner to find shares just to see if your miner is working correctly, you can see pretty quickly if your miner is working because it is finding shares at a fairly normal pace.  it doesn't cost p2pool much processing power to just filter those low difficulty shares out when they get submitted.

It also made it possible for p2pool to report and graph a reasonably accurate local hashrate with lower variance.

All that said, I agree with you that a front to p2pool for smaller miners would be useful.  But to not completely defeat the purpose of p2pool it would be better if there were many dozens of these that get setup instead of only a few large ones.  Otherwise, we just end up with what we have today--a handful of large centralized pools.

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February 14, 2012, 06:31:11 AM
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Posting that here again: You are planning to centralize P2Pool?

Wasn't its main advantage over traditional pools that P2Pool was decentralized?
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