The only Winner: zhoutong

[Jessi]

Maybe the plan to bring the price down, get many people zhoutongued and make much money, then buying back all BTCs at cheap level by using a not public known account and make the game again.
If the person which does it, is zhoutong he would be the only winner of the game. ;-)

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[Mushoz]

Maybe the plan to bring the price down, get many people zhoutongued and make much money, then buying back all BTCs at cheap level by using a not public known account and make the game again.
If the person which does it, is zhoutong he would be the only winner of the game. ;-)

1) The price of BTC is not to your liking
2) Blame Zhoutong with Bitcoinica
3)
4) Profit

By the way, I'm winning with my short. That makes me a winner too

[Jessi]

You have to see the whole market and not only your position. For sure they are sitting on enough money to manipulate the market. And also they are technically able to place those "ghost"-walls. And there is no control if they are running out of money or not. Maybe it´s a good masterplan to appear sometimes out of money and disallow buying until price is low enough to get most people zhoutongued. ;-)

[Vandroiy]

Sorry to disappoint, but when people do such excessive volatility, especially caused by something as predictable as margin longs, I usually win as well. I don't even need to use short selling or the likes, I just assume that the price will be volatile enough.

There's no need to be a manipulator to profit from people changing their minds about price every few days. Let the price jump up again, and I will quote the post from last time a lot more often:

do it again

[realnowhereman]

If the person which does it, is zhoutong he would be the only winner of the game. ;-)

It's not just the trading (and hence the liquidating) that's making him money.  This is close to unbelieveable:

Code:

Currency Bitcoinica Buy Bitcoinica Sell
Daily Pip APY Daily Pip APY
BTC 1.66 6.25% 5.0 20.02%
USD 1.46 5.46% 3.62 14.12%

i.e. if you deposit BTC, it will pay you 6.25% but it's going to be lent out at 20%.  The 16% difference goes to..... Zhoutong.  9% on USD.  Obviously those figures will change based on demand, but on the above figures Bitcoinica is short of both USD and BTC.

These rates seem a bit extreme for a zero risk loan (since the liquidation means nobody loses, right?).

[M4v3R]

I got 10k $ from this drop, so that makes me a winner too?

[teflone]

Yup, thats right! kill it !

Short sell these bitcoins into oblivion!

[Jessi]

Anyway I am sure, if you make a whole-market-calculation (which includes loosers AND winners), there will be finally one big winner. And if you had some luck and you are an example of for the short-term winners, I am sure, that the biggest winner will be zhoutong.

Who knows, if bitcoinica REALLY ran out of $ sometimes? There is no transparency and there is no control if they are telling the truth! You are all only believing, that they are running out of $ and you can not buy new BTC there. But there is for sure a significant correlation between appearing Starfish on Bitcoinica and falling prices.

Imagine the following example:
Bitcoinica started on low BTC-price-level. Then people more and more thrust this system and spend their $. After being powerful enough they manupulated the prices by lending the Bitcoins/$ of the Users to make big walls on both sides. The effects when sometimes where buying big amounts of BTC and selling them at the same Moment where maybe made by Bitcoinica?! Then came the time, when not enough  frehs money came into system. At this point they decided to turn on the starfish. From then there are many more loosers and the money goes to bitcoinica... sure, there are winners, too, but who knows what is the balance? Now they are waiting until the price level is low enough and then they are using the received money to buy for themselves enough bitcoins. This would restart the whole system, because the price will go up again and many people think they can make money. Finally it´s like in Las Vegas: the house will win ALWAYS. ;-)

Correct me, if I am wrong regarding the statements about transparency and control, but WHY should we thrust this systems without any control and transparency? The system maybe is working that way, that Bitcoinica wants some one to win, as an example that the system is working and then other people would follow and invest their money.

During last months I´ve seen so many statements here "price next goes up now: buy!" or "price next goes down: sell!" and so on. Many people who are telling that they are knowing what is coming next. But I am sure, if you count the statements which where right and also the wrong statements it will be statistisch only guessing in 99% of all cases. So if most people (like me, too!) don´t understand the frontend of the market, who can you know about the secret backend of bitcoinica?

And the best thing is; you are all helping them with much support and without any payment to improve their system and making much more money!

Best way would be, to ignore this system until they open it for every one having a close look how it really works!

Or let´s do a public domain one on our own. It could be working like a pool and many people could install the source on their own servers. This would be result in much more control and every one could decide if he is doing it on a system he thrust or if he doing business on his own server...

[SaintFlow]

I got 10k $ from this drop, so that makes me a winner too?

could you put this into percent and name amount of leverage used.
naked numbers say so little 

[M4v3R]

Short from ~5.5 to 4.8-5.0 area, at 2.5:1 leverage. I regret that I liquidated my previous short, from 6.1 though.

[gewure]

zhoutonged , me

[stochastic]

...

Correct me, if I am wrong regarding the statements about transparency and control, but WHY should we thrust this systems without any control and transparency? The system maybe is working that way, that Bitcoinica wants some one to win, as an example that the system is working and then other people would follow and invest their money.

...

Go here for a transparent market.  You are trading bitcoins.  This is a decentralized, unregulated currency.  FOREX trading is not even as transparent as stocks.

[shmadz]

Maybe the plan to bring the price down, get many people zhoutongued and make much money, then buying back all BTCs at cheap level by using a not public known account and make the game again.
If the person which does it, is zhoutong he would be the only winner of the game. ;-)

I'm just starting to learn how these market thingys work, but this sounds kinda like the silver market (maybe other markets too?) like, isn't that sorta what happens when they raise margin requirements and sqeeze out all the little guys?

(this is an honest question, I'm not being facetious, I truly would like to know if this is similar to what happens in other markets)