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Author Topic: "Bitcoin only has speculative value". Are you sure?  (Read 3644 times)
ElectricMucus
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June 05, 2014, 11:33:37 PM
 #41

Capital Gains Tax to the IRS in the USA.
Exchange fees and trading spread.


thread over.
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June 06, 2014, 01:06:45 AM
 #42

Capital Gains Tax to the IRS in the USA.
Exchange fees and trading spread.


thread over.

Breaking news...Last night someone sneaked into the Library of Congress and chiseled all 73,954 pages of the United States tax code into stone tablets. More at eleven.

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davidgdg
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July 05, 2014, 10:27:19 AM
 #43

A big difference between BitPay and PayPal or Visa is BitPay isn't required to provide a chargeback service. It's my understanding this is a legal requirement for the companies that do provide it, and I find it hard to believe BitPay won't be faced with the same requirement as soon as legislators catch up. What will happen to pricing then?

If this were to happen it would destroy their business model. However, the analogy between Visa/PayPal and BitPay is flawed. BitPay do not interact with the customer.  Their arrangement is purely with the merchant. So what BitPay are doing is fundamentally different to Paypal who are acting as a transfer mechanism for value from the customer to the merchant:

Customer     Visa           Merchant
Customer     Merchant    Bitpay


Merchants are of course under separate legal obligations to make refunds in certain circumstances. But the situation there is no different to cash.


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July 05, 2014, 11:09:25 AM
 #44

very nice but you forgot one thing... what are the rates the customer gets?
a merchant needs to have that priced in as well

You mean, the cost of acquiring bitcoins for the customer? Or "handing through" the cheaper costs to the customer in the form of a rebate?

The former is a good question, but doesn't really matter to the business owner: if his/her operating costs are lower, he/she's happy.
Sure, it doesnt matter to the business owner (as long as the fixed fees for the service per month are zero), but as if there is no incentive for customers to pay via BTC it doesnt really matter.

Which brings us to the latter: if people are reluctant to make use of the new, more efficient payment system, businesses have a simple option - pass through some of the reduced costs to the customer in the form of rebates. As long as the rebate is lower than the saved costs, it's still profitable for them to do so, and if the rebate is high enough, it will attract additional customers that look for the lowest price of an item.
The problem is that BTC is *NOT* more efficient for a customer on a monetary basis. Typical ATM fees are 3-7%, more than even PayPal takes. What else, wire the money to an exchange first? There you got conversion fees as well, not to mention fees to get BTC out of the exchange. So, even if you dont include the risks involved in having to pass through an exchange BTC is currently pretty much the worst payment choice for consumers.
Sure, its nice once you already have BTC, but actually getting the BTC is still far to cumbersome for Joe Sixpack.
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July 05, 2014, 12:22:14 PM
 #45


A big difference between BitPay and PayPal or Visa is BitPay isn't required to provide a chargeback service. It's my understanding this is a legal requirement for the companies that do provide it, and I find it hard to believe BitPay won't be faced with the same requirement as soon as legislators catch up. What will happen to pricing then?

Bitpay can provide the service by holding merchant's money in escrow. Problem arise when merchants do not want to take bitcoin directional risk when customer demand refund in btc.

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