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Author Topic: Bitcoin Targeted By Latest FinCEN Ruling? – Implications Are Profound  (Read 4813 times)
michaelsuede
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February 16, 2012, 09:07:09 PM
 #1

From Libertarian News:

Pay close attention to this ruling.  It could be the beginning of a war on Bitcoin.

Zero Hedge reports:

Quote
The Long Arm Of Uncle Sam Just Got Longer

This one’s hot off the presses. Just yesterday, our friends at the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) issued a press release on its latest ruling related to foreign ‘money service businesses (MSBs).’

An MSB is a private company that provides certain financial services like check cashing, money orders, title pawn, payday loans, travelers’ checks, prepaid stored value cards, tax refund payments, etc.

Frequently, traditional MSB clients tended to be individuals without bank accounts or access to credit.  But increasingly, the US government is looking at companies engaged in electronic payments, crowdsourced funding, and even microcredit finance as money service businesses.

The implication? They should all be regulated. Even if they’re not even US companies.

That’s right. FinCEN’s latest ruling suggests a foreign MSB may now be subject to US regulations AND CRIMINAL PENALTIES “even if none of its agents, agencies, branches or offices are physically located in the United States.”

FinCEN goes on to say that foreign-located MSBs must also comply with US anti-money laundering regulations and submit ‘suspicious activity reports’, i.e. assimilate into the US financial system and become yet another unpaid spy of the US government.

Further, foreign MSBs must register with FinCEN AND appoint a person residing in the United States as a legal representative in matters of compliance. If not, foreign MSBs risk severe civil and criminal penalties.

In other words, FinCEN thinks it has the authority to go after entities such as Mt. Gox that are located in Japan.  Mt. Gox, along with all the other related institutions, such as SpendBitcoins.com that exchange Bitcoins for gift cards, or VirWox which exchange Second Life “Linden dollars” for Bitcoins would be subject to criminal sanction by FinCEN even if they have no physical presence in the US at all.

It should be noted that these are dictatorial decrees by FinCEN.  No legislation has been passed that says FinCEN should be allowed to go after foreign businesses around the globe. FinCEN decided on its own that it has this authority.

I’m not sure if FinCEN is directly targeting Bitcoin with this latest fascist power-grab, but it certainly appears that way.  FinCEN doesn’t like it when people buy and sell things without it being privy to every detail of the transaction.   People might attempt to keep their own money! – gasp!  People might buy evil drugs! – gasp!  THE HORROR!

The relevant regulations:

Quote
Foreign-Located Money Services Businesses:

On July 21, 2011, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) published in the Federal Register a final rule on definitions and other regulations relating to money services businesses (Final Rule).1 The Final Rule amended the definition of “money services business” at 31 CFR 1010.100(ff). An entity may now qualify as a money services business (MSB) under the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) regulations based on its activities within the United States, even if none of its agents, agencies, branches or offices are physically located in the United States. The Final Rule arose in part from the recognition that the Internet and other technological advances make it increasingly possible for persons to offer MSB services in the United States from foreign locations.2 FinCEN seeks to ensure that the BSA rules apply to all persons engaging in covered activities within the United States, regardless of the person’s physical location.

Quote
Money Services Business:

The term “money services business” includes any person doing business, whether or not on a regular basis or as an organized business concern, in one or more of the following capacities:

(1) Currency dealer or exchanger.
(2) Check casher.
(3) Issuer of traveler’s checks, money orders or stored value.
(4) Seller or redeemer of traveler’s checks, money orders or stored value.
(5) Money transmitter.
(6) U.S. Postal Service.

An activity threshold of greater than $1,000 per person per day in one or more transactions applies to the definitions of: currency dealer or exchanger; check casher; issuer of traveler’s checks, money orders or stored value; and seller or redeemer of travelers’ checks, money orders or stored value. The threshold applies separately to each activity — if the threshold is not met for the specific activity, the person engaged in that activity is not an MSB on the basis of that activity.

No activity threshold applies to the definition of money transmitter. Thus, a person who engages as a business in the transfer of funds is an MSB as a money transmitter, regardless of the amount of money transmission activity.
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February 16, 2012, 09:22:32 PM
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so is this irrespective of citizenship of the owner of the money transmitter business?  Mag Tux is French.

sounds like the only requirement is that the business interacts with US citizens within our borders?
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February 16, 2012, 09:25:51 PM
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Those douchebags dare to violate people's privacy in the name of justice without providing any sort evidence to show their effectiveness of stopping crime or whether or not the cost is worth it.

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February 16, 2012, 09:35:54 PM
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here is the relevant part:

"Consistent with the standard for reporting suspicious activity under the BSA, if a financial institution knows, suspects, or has reason to suspect that a transaction conducted or attempted by, at, or through the financial institution involves funds derived from illegal activity or appears to be indicative of money laundering, terrorist financing, or other violation of law or regulation, the financial institution should file a suspicious activity report (SAR).8 As noted in the Joint Guidance, financial institutions that provide banking services to MSBs should file a SAR if they become aware that their customers are operating as unregistered or unlicensed MSBs.9"

as long as mtgox makes every reasonable effort to ensure he is not dealing with people engaged in these activities i fail to see how they can be accused of any wrongdoing.  every other bank in the world that services US citizens has the same regulation hanging over its head.

i fail to understand why all the crackheads made a big fuss about how Bitcoin would be the currency of the drug dealers last year.  i, for one, don't think Silk Road had anything to do with last Springs rally.  i just think it was a good idea whose time had come.  its time to disentangle that myth from Bitcoin.
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February 16, 2012, 09:42:29 PM
 #5

Wether or not it is specifically targeting MtGox or not, it definitely still pertains and applies to them.

Fortunately for MtGox, they have operating under this assumption since they began doing business.

Keep trying FinCEN.....


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February 16, 2012, 09:50:55 PM
 #6

here is the relevant part:

"Consistent with the standard for reporting suspicious activity under the BSA, if a financial institution knows, suspects, or has reason to suspect that a transaction conducted or attempted by, at, or through the financial institution involves funds derived from illegal activity or appears to be indicative of money laundering, terrorist financing, or other violation of law or regulation, the financial institution should file a suspicious activity report (SAR).8 As noted in the Joint Guidance, financial institutions that provide banking services to MSBs should file a SAR if they become aware that their customers are operating as unregistered or unlicensed MSBs.9"

as long as mtgox makes every reasonable effort to ensure he is not dealing with people engaged in these activities i fail to see how they can be accused of any wrongdoing.  every other bank in the world that services US citizens has the same regulation hanging over its head.

KYC is a violation of our financial privacy. In order to pay our taxes, we gave information to the IRS every year. Are you OK with this? I am doing my taxes for the first time year, but I felt like they're watching my every earning, trying to pounce me on the most obscure violation. It probably only happen to 1 in 100,000 but it probably made life hell.

If they're going to sift through somebody's lives, they should be forced to get a warrant and have a judge watching them. I wish I knew a way of changing the situation, but I don't know how.
Quote
i fail to understand why all the crackheads made a big fuss about how Bitcoin would be the currency of the drug dealers last year.  i, for one, don't think Silk Road had anything to do with last Springs rally.  i just think it was a good idea whose time had come.  its time to disentangle that myth from Bitcoin.

If something happen and the price rises, people merely assume something happening have to do with why the price rises.

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February 16, 2012, 09:52:54 PM
 #7

Wether or not it is specifically targeting MtGox or not, it definitely still pertains and applies to them.

Fortunately for MtGox, they have operating under this assumption since they began doing business.

Keep trying FinCEN.....



I would like to hear mtgox's statement on this compliance effort and their candid position on anti-money laundering.

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February 16, 2012, 10:00:42 PM
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KYC is a violation of our financial privacy. In order to pay our taxes, we gave information to the IRS every year. Are you OK with this? I am doing my taxes for the first time year, but I felt like they're watching my every earning, trying to pounce me on the most obscure violation. It probably only happen to 1 in 100,000 but it probably made life hell.


1 in 100,000? You wish. Try 1 in 100.

Assuming you are talking about audits.

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February 16, 2012, 10:01:46 PM
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what i want to know is the inconsistency i'm sensing from Amir and Jered vs. Mark.  Amir and Jered have already determined that working with the banks has been a horrendous experience and very costly.  this i expected from the very beginning.

Mark may or may not be experiencing the same thing; we just don't know b/c he hasn't commented on it.
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February 16, 2012, 10:11:25 PM
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Mark may or may not be experiencing the same thing; we just don't know b/c he hasn't commented on it.

From what I can tell, even Mark have some issues working with banks.

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February 16, 2012, 10:12:58 PM
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Mark may or may not be experiencing the same thing; we just don't know b/c he hasn't commented on it.

From what I can tell, even Mark have some issues working with banks.

so do i understand this right that Jered had problems with California banks specifically?  i never knew TH's banks were based there. 

Marks are in HK and Japan so that may be encouraging.
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February 16, 2012, 11:15:14 PM
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I guess there are no countries left on the planet where someone could operate an exchange outside of US laws?
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February 16, 2012, 11:29:09 PM
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I guess there are no countries left on the planet where someone could operate an exchange outside of US laws?

The US government doesn't care about borders.

It cares about robbing you blind no matter where you live on the planet.
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February 16, 2012, 11:35:41 PM
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All the more reason for someone to make a p2p exchange.
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February 17, 2012, 12:24:29 AM
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Here is the original post by Simon Black Some more quotes:


Quote
FinCEN’s latest ruling suggests a foreign MSB may now be subject to US regulations AND CRIMINAL PENALTIES “even if none of its agents, agencies, branches or offices are physically located in the United States.

FinCEN goes on to say that foreign-located MSBs must also comply with US anti-money laundering regulations and submit ‘suspicious activity reports’, i.e. assimilate into the US financial system and become yet another unpaid spy of the US government.
Quote
Despite the ‘free and democratic society’ that most of us live in, these agencies are accountable to no one. They are not elected officials, they have no checks and balances, and there is little (if any) judicial oversight.
Quote
FinCEN’s “rules” subjecting foreign companies to US criminal penalties, this is getting completely out of control.
Quote
Each of these rules has been conjured without your knowledge, put into effect without your consent, and tied to the most ridiculous civil and criminal penalties imaginable. You can’t even fill out a passport application anymore without being threatened with a $10,000 fine.

Bitcoin is no longer a little experiment by geeks. Bitcoin is a means of financial survival...
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February 17, 2012, 12:25:50 AM
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Interesting thread. The banking lobby will qualify any business thats challenging their monopoly as a business that must be "regulated".

Along the same line, I was hearing tonight a tv report stating that bank card fraud on the internet was on the rise because of the development of the e-commerce.

Apparently it did not cross the mind of the tv reporter that it could also be the result of some obsolete inefficient ill-suited payment means that the banks are forcing us to use to spend our own money.

Thats propaganda at work: brainwash or bribe the media, they will take care of their audience

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February 17, 2012, 12:30:12 AM
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All the more reason for someone to make a p2p exchange.

Easier said than done.  Just think of the various steps that would be involved.

How do you know a buyer has enough dollars in their bank account?

How do you access the account?

How do you know they have enough Bitcoins in their wallet for sale?

How do you pool Bitcoins so that any size order can be placed or sold?

An exchange doesn't work like eBay, where specific amounts of goods are bought and sold.  An exchange pools the money so that any arbitrary amount can be bought or sold.  

How do you prevent people from altering the client to broadcast more bank funds than they actually have?

It seems incredibly difficult to do those things without a central server to coordinate and secure all the action.



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February 17, 2012, 12:33:33 AM
 #18

Wether or not it is specifically targeting MtGox or not, it definitely still pertains and applies to them.

Fortunately for MtGox, they have operating under this assumption since they began doing business.

Keep trying FinCEN.....



I would like to hear mtgox's statement on this compliance effort and their candid position on anti-money laundering.

Trust me when I tell you this. When FinCEN comes knocking, MtGox will be most prepared.

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February 17, 2012, 12:34:51 AM
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It's nothing but words on paper at the moment.

There are no real implications until FinCEN makes a move and demonstrates its might.

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February 17, 2012, 01:11:02 AM
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It's nothing but words on paper at the moment.

There are no real implications until FinCEN makes a move and demonstrates its might.

Better be prepared than never.

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February 17, 2012, 01:17:50 AM
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The world of international money transfer is MUCH bigger than Bitcoin.  I wouldn't be surprised if the people who made this ruling still haven't heard of Bitcoin. 
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February 17, 2012, 01:18:56 AM
 #22

Wether or not it is specifically targeting MtGox or not, it definitely still pertains and applies to them.

Fortunately for MtGox, they have operating under this assumption since they began doing business.

Keep trying FinCEN.....



I would like to hear mtgox's statement on this compliance effort and their candid position on anti-money laundering.

Trust me when I tell you this. When FinCEN comes knocking, MtGox will be most prepared.

Riiight, well guess what, I'm not going to give mtgox my ID, my photo, or any other info about my identity. If it's mandatory to provide such personal details I will not use mtgox, PERIOD.

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February 17, 2012, 01:20:30 AM
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Riiight, well guess what, I'm not going to give mtgox my ID, my photo, or any other info about my identity. If it's mandatory to provide such personal details I will not use mtgox, PERIOD.

How do you get your bitcoin then? Selling goods and services?

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February 17, 2012, 01:26:54 AM
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The world of international money transfer is MUCH bigger than Bitcoin.  I wouldn't be surprised if the people who made this ruling still haven't heard of Bitcoin.  

Maybe not, but I'm sure their bosses have.

Compartmentalization.
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February 17, 2012, 01:39:43 AM
 #25

Wether or not it is specifically targeting MtGox or not, it definitely still pertains and applies to them.

Fortunately for MtGox, they have operating under this assumption since they began doing business.

Keep trying FinCEN.....


I would like to hear mtgox's statement on this compliance effort and their candid position on anti-money laundering.

Trust me when I tell you this. When FinCEN comes knocking, MtGox will be most prepared.

Riiight, well guess what, I'm not going to give mtgox my ID, my photo, or any other info about my identity. If it's mandatory to provide such personal details I will not use mtgox, PERIOD.

Of course, thats your choice and no one will blame you for it.

I'm merely trying to point out, that although we may think were above the law- were not. If I'm a libertarian, revolutionary, ect.. I still must work in the confides of the law and be compliant.

It basically narrows down to this.

MtGox or No MtGox...actually, let me rephrase

Bitcoin or No Bitcoin

If we want MtGox (Which I do) and other exchanges to operate legally, we must operate legally ourselves

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February 17, 2012, 01:59:06 AM
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Riiight, well guess what, I'm not going to give mtgox my ID, my photo, or any other info about my identity. If it's mandatory to provide such personal details I will not use mtgox, PERIOD.

How do you get your bitcoin then? Selling goods and services?

Not through mtgox, that's for sure.

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February 17, 2012, 02:09:48 AM
 #27

Wether or not it is specifically targeting MtGox or not, it definitely still pertains and applies to them.
Fortunately for MtGox, they have operating under this assumption since they began doing business.
Keep trying FinCEN.....

Glad to hear that.

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February 17, 2012, 02:31:51 AM
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I'm merely trying to point out, that although we may think were above the law- were not. If I'm a libertarian, revolutionary, ect.. I still must work in the confides of the law and be compliant.

That's the wrong word to use. How about this: unethical and overly intrusive.

Quote
It basically narrows down to this.

MtGox or No MtGox...actually, let me rephrase

Bitcoin or No Bitcoin

If we want MtGox (Which I do) and other exchanges to operate legally, we must operate legally ourselves

I agree. However, we should keep in mind that the laws are not always right.

I think the laws in question are wrong, but how to change this I do not know.

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February 17, 2012, 03:25:33 AM
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I guess there are no countries left on the planet where someone could operate an exchange outside of US laws?

One could operate such an exchange, so long as it didn't accept US customers. Interestingly, a law such as this will have (surprise surprise) unintended consequences - those consequences being that US residents will be excluded from overseas service providers, because their god damned government can't read its own founding documents.
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February 17, 2012, 04:14:18 AM
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I agree. However, we should keep in mind that the laws are not always right.

I think the laws in question are wrong, but how to change this I do not know.

The Civil Rights movement of the 1960's is a great example. It was not until the blacks started boycotting that real change got done. You have to starve the vampire squid. Everyone understands the pocketbook. Governments and banks around the world are scared to death that they will lose control of the medium of exchange in the Information Age.

As far as being in harmony with unjust laws that is a personal decision for each person to make based on a simple cost/benefit analysis. The Matrix gives a good example. Personally, I do not want any problems so I send them plenty of money.

I have quite a few friends from school who have worked or currently work for the IRS. Their work performance is based on amount of money collected and time it takes to collect it. They are encouraged to settle quickly. Many of my friends who were first audited and presented meticulous records have been left alone for the rest of their lives.

When you understand they operate pretty much like a business then you can better deal with them. Ironically, Congress does not fund them enough so they really have a lot more bark than bite. Sure, they can make your life miserable if you flagrantly disregard them but if you have made a good faith effort to pay what is legally owed then much of their power dissipates. So one course of action is to make it appear in the records that you have made a good faith effort to pay what is legally owed.

Also, greatly complicating the records (why do you think all these TIEAs and FACTA are being implemented) is fun also as that makes any type of an audit a real pain in their ass and if the expected collection is not very much then are they really going to push the issue with litigation; particularly if you are willing to settle and write a check?

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February 17, 2012, 04:32:08 AM
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Only applies to countries with extradition. Ukraine and Russia don't give a fuck about US laws, nor Brazil.
That's why you can cash out your $6k LR stash in Novosibirsk and the guy doesn't ask any questions because nobody there cares.

All exchangers outside CIS/non extradition countries already demand all sorts of ID and don't like working with American's since as long as I can remember.
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February 17, 2012, 06:24:04 AM
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I wish I knew a way of changing the situation, but I don't know how.

Change your citizenship.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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February 17, 2012, 06:27:18 AM
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I'm merely trying to point out, that although we may think were above the law- were not. If I'm a libertarian, revolutionary, ect.. I still must work in the confides of the law and be compliant.

That's the wrong word to use. How about this: unethical and overly intrusive.

Quote
It basically narrows down to this.

MtGox or No MtGox...actually, let me rephrase

Bitcoin or No Bitcoin

If we want MtGox (Which I do) and other exchanges to operate legally, we must operate legally ourselves

I think the laws in question are wrong, but how to change this I do not know.

Your right, I 100% agree.

For example, there's an active bill now to repeal the Money Transmitter License law in New Hampshire that us and some Bitcoin business's are involved in

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February 17, 2012, 07:41:24 AM
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I guess there are no countries left on the planet where someone could operate an exchange outside of US laws?

Space?

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February 17, 2012, 07:47:16 AM
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I guess there are no countries left on the planet where someone could operate an exchange outside of US laws?

Space?
Over here it's written in constitution you cannot be extradited while you're living inside the country. I guess that would count as something? Smiley
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February 17, 2012, 12:33:05 PM
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because their god damned government can't read its own founding documents.

You mean those 4 mere pieces of paper no one even signed.  Roll Eyes

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February 17, 2012, 12:40:18 PM
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I agree. However, we should keep in mind that the laws are not always right.

I think the laws in question are wrong, but how to change this I do not know.

The Civil Rights movement of the 1960's is a great example. It was not until the blacks started boycotting that real change got done. You have to starve the vampire squid. Everyone understands the pocketbook. Governments and banks around the world are scared to death that they will lose control of the medium of exchange in the Information Age.

As far as being in harmony with unjust laws that is a personal decision for each person to make based on a simple cost/benefit analysis. The Matrix gives a good example. Personally, I do not want any problems so I send them plenty of money.

I have quite a few friends from school who have worked or currently work for the IRS. Their work performance is based on amount of money collected and time it takes to collect it. They are encouraged to settle quickly. Many of my friends who were first audited and presented meticulous records have been left alone for the rest of their lives.

When you understand they operate pretty much like a business then you can better deal with them. Ironically, Congress does not fund them enough so they really have a lot more bark than bite. Sure, they can make your life miserable if you flagrantly disregard them but if you have made a good faith effort to pay what is legally owed then much of their power dissipates. So one course of action is to make it appear in the records that you have made a good faith effort to pay what is legally owed.

Also, greatly complicating the records (why do you think all these TIEAs and FACTA are being implemented) is fun also as that makes any type of an audit a real pain in their ass and if the expected collection is not very much then are they really going to push the issue with litigation; particularly if you are willing to settle and write a check?

This reminds me how the church of scientology sued the government until the DoJ ran out of funds, then they cut a deal giving the CoS privileged tax status. Awhile back there was a thread about monocoinism vs polycoinism, perhaps these really are our religions.

I guess there are no countries left on the planet where someone could operate an exchange outside of US laws?

Space?

Seasteading?
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February 17, 2012, 10:40:07 PM
 #38

Only applies to countries with extradition. Ukraine and Russia don't give a fuck about US laws, nor Brazil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria

Venezuela has no extradition laws with America.  Maybe they also are lenient on the USD financial area too.

I always wondered if there was any service that allowed to make a web server in low earth orbit.

Does anyone know of a list of Tor hidden bitcoin financial services?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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February 17, 2012, 11:16:13 PM
 #39

If anything, couldn't this help legitimize bitcoin and make it even more popular? The price is directly related to popularity. So if we want to be rich as early adopters, then don't we need to figure out ways to get as many people to need bitcoins for day to day as possible?

It may not be possible for bitcoins to be centrally managed (excluding exchange choke points), and if those are monitored for tax purposes, so be it - there will always be a large uncontrollable number in circulation, though, and while one payment out of the exchange can be known, what happens then (split to different keys) is anyone's guess.

If secrecy and tax evasion are the only things bitcoins have going for it then a lot of us are wasting our time here.
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February 18, 2012, 03:26:22 AM
 #40


If secrecy and tax evasion are the only things bitcoins have going for it then a lot of us are wasting our time here.

If bitcoin is just a copy of what we already have with fiat currencies then a lot of us are wasting our time here.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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February 18, 2012, 03:57:01 AM
 #41

If anything, couldn't this help legitimize bitcoin and make it even more popular? The price is directly related to popularity. So if we want to be rich as early adopters, then don't we need to figure out ways to get as many people to need bitcoins for day to day as possible?


+1.

Yes! Popularity is the key. Why was there a huge spike in worth last year? Exposure. I am in the process of being able to help as many people as I can get the bitcoins when they need them without having to sign up places.

I think the ease of getting a bitcoin is important when drawing people in because I think the number one reason people get turned off by bitcoin is because of all the necessary steps and time just to receive some legitimately without high fees.

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February 18, 2012, 02:41:17 PM
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If secrecy and tax evasion are the only things bitcoins have going for it then a lot of us are wasting our time here.

If bitcoin is just a copy of what we already have with fiat currencies then a lot of us are wasting our time here.

I understand your reservations, but it's not even close to a copy of fiat.
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February 18, 2012, 02:46:39 PM
 #43

I think the ease of getting a bitcoin is important when drawing people in because I think the number one reason people get turned off by bitcoin is because of all the necessary steps and time just to receive some legitimately without high fees.

Yeah this is key. Why does linux, a superior operating system, have a lower market share than Windows? Windows is easy.

I don't honestly know how easy this problem is to solve, though, since there needs to be some trust involved along the way.
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February 18, 2012, 03:17:07 PM
 #44

well how easy is it to get a hold of some gold?  not too easy.

you have to go down to your local coin dealer, if you have one, pay cash and then cart the stuff out the door all the while worrying about being noticed by some mugger who'll rob you right there b/c of the big bags you're carrying.

not to mention selling it back which i did during last Spring which was a pain.  i had to haggle the price and eventually took a 5% haircut off spot.  they made me sign a bunch of forms, show give my drivers license, and then they sent me a 1099 two wks ago on which i will have to pay my regular tax rate, not capital gains.

and btw, have you ever tried buying everyday goods with it?
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February 18, 2012, 04:24:19 PM
 #45

Quote
I guess there are no countries left on the planet where someone could operate an exchange outside of US laws?
Russia never extradite it's citizens.
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February 19, 2012, 01:39:55 AM
 #46

I agree. However, we should keep in mind that the laws are not always right.

I think the laws in question are wrong, but how to change this I do not know.

The Civil Rights movement of the 1960's is a great example. It was not until the blacks started boycotting that real change got done. You have to starve the vampire squid. Everyone understands the pocketbook. Governments and banks around the world are scared to death that they will lose control of the medium of exchange in the Information Age.

This.

Yet breathe a word about not paying taxes or about non-compliance, and suddenly people think you're a selfish bastard who doesn't care if the world devolves back to the stone ages.

When enough people both understand that it's possible to ignore a government to death, and decide to do so, then change will happen.

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
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In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
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The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
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