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Author Topic: Facebook has MSB license in at least 15 states, Google also  (Read 4862 times)
Joshwaa
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February 20, 2012, 02:49:43 PM
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herzmeister
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February 20, 2012, 02:55:28 PM
 #22

If all Bitcoin exchanges become "licensed", I'll certainly lose faith in it as a currency. The point of bitcoin isn't to be accepted by the current powers that be, but to overthrow them. Fuck their licenses and fuck the people we're supposed to beg for permission from.

I believe the concept of Bitcoin is great enough for both approaches at the same time. If necessary, an alternative block chain can be used for underground activities.

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cryptoanarchist
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February 20, 2012, 03:17:10 PM
 #23

If all Bitcoin exchanges become "licensed", I'll certainly lose faith in it as a currency. The point of bitcoin isn't to be accepted by the current powers that be, but to overthrow them. Fuck their licenses and fuck the people we're supposed to beg for permission from.

I believe the concept of Bitcoin is great enough for both approaches at the same time. If necessary, an alternative block chain can be used for underground activities.


Eh...the fact that they are getting "licenses" at all bothers me. To me, its a sign that the banking elite have a plan for Bitcoin. My guess is that they want to make themselves the primary exchanges and demonize exchanges that aren't part of their network. They've already infiltrated Gox and Intersango is definitely controlled op. I have to wonder how many people in here are trolls sent to bash any exchange that is non-government. (think TradeHill)

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February 20, 2012, 03:51:25 PM
 #24

I don't see it that way. But we all do know that the exchanges are bottlenecks. Maybe the big ones like MtGox can get licenses, maybe not. But I guess either way, we need P2P exchanges, or at least more direct exchanges (escrow only) like bitmarket.eu.

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cryptoanarchist
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February 20, 2012, 04:56:58 PM
 #25

But I guess either way, we need P2P exchanges, or at least more direct exchanges (escrow only) like bitmarket.eu.

+1 Definitely!  Another idea I had was an exchange that runs multiple dwolla accounts under different names, and also leaves their dwolla accounts with only minimum amounts in them, withdrawing most into gold and silver. That would stymie their chargeback bullshit because the funds would be taken out before the exchange added the deposit to the customers trade acct.

Kinda like this:   deposit:
                                 customer dwolla acct -> exchange's dwolla acct#1

                                 exchange's dwolla acct#1 -> gold/silver
          
                                 exchange funds customer's trade acct

                     withdraw:
                                 exchange's dwolla acct#2 -> customer dwolla acct

                                 exchange refills it's withdraw accounts using its gold/silver reserves

feedback?
Stephen Gornick
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February 21, 2012, 10:49:59 PM
 #26

I haven't had time to look into other states,

Yup, a more than just those 7:
Quote
But that step is already behind the Menlo Park, Calif., company in at least 15 states,"
- http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/177_35/facebook-credits-money-transmitter-license-bank-regulation-1046825-1.html

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February 21, 2012, 10:57:10 PM
 #27

I haven't had time to look into other states,

Yup, a more than just those 7:
Quote
But that step is already behind the Menlo Park, Calif., company in at least 15 states,"
- http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/177_35/facebook-credits-money-transmitter-license-bank-regulation-1046825-1.html

Good Find!  That just came out today.  I wonder if the author was tipped off by my post and initial research a couple days ago.

We should not underestimate facebook and facebook credits as a competitor.  Starbucks will accept them, so will other stores.  They will get lots of publicity from this.  They will take a large share of the digital wallet space, because they already have the leading app on every smartphone platform.

Facebook will be a private, global e-currency when they enter the peer-to-peer market.  You will be able to pay people remotely in India using facebook credits.  This needs to be watched, and watched closely.

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February 22, 2012, 04:22:45 AM
 #28

I haven't had time to look into other states,

Yup, a more than just those 7:
Quote
But that step is already behind the Menlo Park, Calif., company in at least 15 states,"
- http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/177_35/facebook-credits-money-transmitter-license-bank-regulation-1046825-1.html

Good Find!  That just came out today.  I wonder if the author was tipped off by my post and initial research a couple days ago.

We should not underestimate facebook and facebook credits as a competitor.  Starbucks will accept them, so will other stores.  They will get lots of publicity from this.  They will take a large share of the digital wallet space, because they already have the leading app on every smartphone platform.

Facebook will be a private, global e-currency when they enter the peer-to-peer market.  You will be able to pay people remotely in India using facebook credits.  This needs to be watched, and watched closely.

maybe i should look into it more closely, if that ever happens people would want to exchange some of their centralized credits for "digital gold" to keep their savings safe, you never know when playing farmville all day could be your actual dayjob  Cheesy

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Jonathan Ryan Owens
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February 26, 2012, 12:57:41 AM
 #29

maybe i should look into it more closely, if that ever happens people would want to exchange some of their centralized credits for "digital gold" to keep their savings safe, you never know when playing farmville all day could be your actual dayjob  Cheesy

Look out Zynga, you might be getting a call from the Spanish authorities soon. 

thomkaufmann
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February 26, 2012, 02:49:12 AM
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There's a chance that FB credits will become the easiest conduit for exchanging USD into BTC. And the concept of a digital currency is difficult for many people to comprehend. FB credits will certainly open up many minds. This could be a boon for BTC.
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February 26, 2012, 10:50:51 AM
 #31

FB credits will certainly open up many minds.



just like windows opens many people's minds for linux  Huh

people want to get their job done, their needs fulfilled. facebook would have to fuck up big time (though they eventually will i suppose when the central bank of zuckerberg discovers quantitative easing, making a brave 0.1% looking for alternatives).

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ColdHardMetal
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February 26, 2012, 01:34:03 PM
 #32

Eh...the fact that they are getting "licenses" at all bothers me. To me, its a sign that the banking elite have a plan for Bitcoin. My guess is that they want to make themselves the primary exchanges and demonize exchanges that aren't part of their network. They've already infiltrated Gox and Intersango is definitely controlled op. I have to wonder how many people in here are trolls sent to bash any exchange that is non-government. (think TradeHill)

Who cares if the exchanges get licensed? As long as the basic client still allows person-to-person transfers without involving a 3rd party, then it doesn't matter what the exchanges are doing. If you are willing to accept and hold BTC as value in trade for whatever you provided then you don't even need an exchange. Once the BTC economy grows enough that you can purchase the things you need without requiring a BTC/fiat conversion it won't matter at all how connected the exchanges are to the existing banking system.

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February 26, 2012, 06:44:10 PM
 #33

Are we looking for competitors to bitcoin?

Does bitcoin need some of these licenses?

Is that even possible given that no one is "in charge" of bitcoin?

Mobile Wallets and Mobile payments will be a very, very crowded space in 1-2 years.  So yes, it is quite interesting to see Facebook take the steps now to be a licensed Money Transmitter.

Bitcoin services like the exchanges, payment processors, and expediters like BitInstant definitely fall under existing regulations for currency exchanges, payment processing, and money transmission.  Especially when such businesses use Dollars or Euros as part of their business.  

So yes, the recent crackdown on TradeHill, etc, just shows that bitcoin related businesses need the proper licensing.  If facebook and Google are getting this type of license, then bitcoin businesses should probably follow and do the same thing.

There is a very critical difference here that gives Bitcoin a great advantage. A Bitcoin business only needs to be licensed in the jurisdictions where they do business but the Bitcoins themselves can be used worldwide. Let us say I wish to transfer money from here in Canada to a person in Kenya. I can purchase the Bitcoins here in Canada at a business that is licensed in Canada but not in Kenya, send them to a person in Kenya who then sells them in Kenya at a business that is licensed in Kenya but not in Canada. A competitive money transfer using say Google or Facebook requires that business to be licensed in both Canada and Kenya. M-PESA is not an option here because M-PESA is not licensed in Canada. There are many innovative money transfer and e-wallet services worldwide but they are for the most part local products. Even PayPal who has been at this for over a decade does not allow a withdrawal to a local bank account in most parts of the world. https://www.paypal.com/worldwide/. The challenges that PayPal faces with regulation worldwide illustrates this issue very well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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February 27, 2012, 12:17:06 AM
 #34

Bitcoin can exist at an infinite number of locations and can be sent to the same instantly because anyone that has the private key has the first access and is the one that actually determines the physical location of the Bitcoin. You can use the Shroedingers Cat analogy with Bitcoin. When you send Bitcoin to an address, you don't know how many people have been given the private key to that public address. Decentralized money will be an interesting test for law since there will always be plausible deniability regarding the country of origin and destination.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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