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Author Topic: NXT/NEM or Monero/Bytecoin?  (Read 4890 times)
devphp
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June 10, 2014, 12:00:16 PM
 #41

Why won't PoW last long?

When all the mining power becomes concentrated in 2-3 large mining corporations, which is inevitable given how the process unfolds, how is this different from centralized money printing by central banks? PoW will last another year or two before that happens. When only 2-3 large corporations control processing of all transactions, they will be regulated and dependant on regulators' decisions and rules, and this becomes the same as any fiat currency, except this currency is produced by solving blocks, but it will be far from the idea of decentralization that crypto currency came up with.
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June 10, 2014, 12:32:30 PM
 #42

Why won't PoW last long?

When all the mining power becomes concentrated in 2-3 large mining corporations, which is inevitable given how the process unfolds, how is this different from centralized money printing by central banks? PoW will last another year or two before that happens. When only 2-3 large corporations control processing of all transactions, they will be regulated and dependant on regulators' decisions and rules, and this becomes the same as any fiat currency, except this currency is produced by solving blocks, but it will be far from the idea of decentralization that crypto currency came up with.

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June 10, 2014, 12:52:43 PM
 #43

Why won't PoW last long?

When all the mining power becomes concentrated in 2-3 large mining corporations, which is inevitable given how the process unfolds, how is this different from centralized money printing by central banks? PoW will last another year or two before that happens. When only 2-3 large corporations control processing of all transactions, they will be regulated and dependant on regulators' decisions and rules, and this becomes the same as any fiat currency, except this currency is produced by solving blocks, but it will be far from the idea of decentralization that crypto currency came up with.

I see where you're coming from, but central banks have been around for many years and I'm still alive ... certainly many more years than "another year or two" .. hopefully Wink. PoW at worst invites central banks to assume power .. by taking control of most mining resources. PoS at worst makes the original stakeholders a new "central banK" whether or not they were one before, where they're still susceptable by flat out purchasing by a centralized banking system. It's little more than clenching your cheeks and hoping for the best .. anything else is speculation. I think I like both attempts.

PoW gives me the hope that there's a control based on some physical link to the real world, and PoS gives me the hope that maybe someone can do better than a centralized bank. Both seem like a lottery increasing my overall chances to win.

I've seen some interesting proposals involving both PoW and PoS that catch my interest .. MC2 being one of them. Any thoughts on that? I think I remember you favoring NXT, but what do you think of hybrid currencies?
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June 10, 2014, 01:00:05 PM
 #44

central banks have been around for many years and I'm still alive

Only the last 100 years, and just look at the mess the world is in! Yeah, you may be still alive, slavery is a form of life too.
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June 10, 2014, 01:03:01 PM
 #45

they're still susceptable by flat out purchasing by a centralized banking system.

Not really, before they purchase anything close to 50% of the PoS currency, the price will shoot through the roof and this PoS currency becomes world reserve currency at that point. Unlike PoW currency, where they can buy enough hardware for much less money and destroy the PoW currency or flat out ban mining/force it to regulation since it's all becoming centralized mining now in 2-3 places.
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June 10, 2014, 01:04:43 PM
 #46

I think I remember you favoring NXT, but what do you think of hybrid currencies?

Hybrids are ok for now, but why not skip and go right to where hybrids will end in a couple of years - PoS.
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June 10, 2014, 01:08:47 PM
 #47

It would be environmentally very sad if PoW survives.  The difference in energy required to do the same thing is enormous.

Here' what it costs to maintain a big part of Nxt network right now:

Quote
On a average 300 Watt, 0,15$ per kWh the energy cost would be 247.32$ a day.
http://www.peerexplorer.com/

Compare that to litecoin. And it will probably get worse (difference).
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June 10, 2014, 03:02:48 PM
 #48

Why won't PoW last long?

When all the mining power becomes concentrated in 2-3 large mining corporations, which is inevitable given how the process unfolds, how is this different from centralized money printing by central banks? PoW will last another year or two before that happens. When only 2-3 large corporations control processing of all transactions, they will be regulated and dependant on regulators' decisions and rules, and this becomes the same as any fiat currency, except this currency is produced by solving blocks, but it will be far from the idea of decentralization that crypto currency came up with.

In addition to that, in PoW, you are essentially paying a fee to maintain the network, which is a loss for you.

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June 11, 2014, 12:15:41 AM
 #49

You guys do realize, PoW coins can just transform to PoS right...So if the dev of...idk.... Litecoin wanted to change Litecoin to PoS, he could..

So while coins like NXT may have the heads start by a little bit in the PoS department, Any other coin with terrific devs can simply turn PoS and destroy NXT's position in the PoS coin market...

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June 11, 2014, 12:29:26 AM
 #50

You guys do realize, PoW coins can just transform to PoS right...So if the dev of...idk.... Litecoin wanted to change Litecoin to PoS, he could..

So while coins like NXT may have the heads start by a little bit in the PoS department, Any other coin with terrific devs can simply turn PoS and destroy NXT's position in the PoS coin market...

But NEM will be POI (Proof Of Importance), PoW coins can't turn into that.
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June 11, 2014, 12:33:59 AM
 #51

You guys do realize, PoW coins can just transform to PoS right...So if the dev of...idk.... Litecoin wanted to change Litecoin to PoS, he could..

So while coins like NXT may have the heads start by a little bit in the PoS department, Any other coin with terrific devs can simply turn PoS and destroy NXT's position in the PoS coin market...

But NEM will be POI (Proof Of Importance), PoW coins can't turn into that.

That makes no sense...But ok.

       LUST -  Decentralized SEX Marketplace • Pre - ICO Starts August 18th
                ••• •••      Website      ••• •••      Whitepaper      ••• •••      Telegram      ••• •••                

       • • • LUST • • • LUST • • • LUST • • • LUST • • • LUST • • • LUST • • • LUST • • • LUST • • • LUST • • • LUST • • • LUST • • • LUST • • •       
devphp
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June 11, 2014, 04:06:03 AM
 #52

You guys do realize, PoW coins can just transform to PoS right...So if the dev of...idk.... Litecoin wanted to change Litecoin to PoS, he could..

So while coins like NXT may have the heads start by a little bit in the PoS department, Any other coin with terrific devs can simply turn PoS and destroy NXT's position in the PoS coin market...

PoW cannot turn to PoS easily.

Because all these miners won't accept the new release of the software and the network will continue to operate as PoW. And why should they accept the changes? They invested thousands or even millions of dollars into ASICs and all the infrastructure, and now the dev wants it to go to PoS? F*ck the dev, they'll be using the old version of the software and because they are the majority of the full nodes, they will form the longest chain and the network will adhere to their rules. So Bitcoin can't switch to PoS, that's for sure. As for others - hard to tell, Litecoin probably can't switch to PoS at this point either and it won't. Smaller ones could, but would lose all the miners and quickly die due to very low adoption rates.
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June 11, 2014, 05:13:50 AM
 #53

You guys do realize, PoW coins can just transform to PoS right...So if the dev of...idk.... Litecoin wanted to change Litecoin to PoS, he could..

So while coins like NXT may have the heads start by a little bit in the PoS department, Any other coin with terrific devs can simply turn PoS and destroy NXT's position in the PoS coin market...

PoW coins like Litecon just can't turn into a PoS like NXT.  They are written on completely different code with totally different fundamentals.   Litecoin could maybe someday IF IF IF every agree to it become PoS Litecoin, but it would still be just Litecoin and wouldn't offer any extra value or function.  A PoW Litecoin and PoS Litecoin to me are just about the same and already outdated.  So even if it did somehow manage to switch, it is still behind on the game. 

NEM      Faucet      Slack Invite      Easy API’s      Light Wallet      Amazing White Paper       Supernodes     Telegram Invite     Mijin 
jabo38
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mining is so 2012-2013


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June 11, 2014, 05:27:40 AM
 #54

Why won't PoW last long?

When all the mining power becomes concentrated in 2-3 large mining corporations, which is inevitable given how the process unfolds, how is this different from centralized money printing by central banks? PoW will last another year or two before that happens. When only 2-3 large corporations control processing of all transactions, they will be regulated and dependent on regulators' decisions and rules, and this becomes the same as any fiat currency, except this currency is produced by solving blocks, but it will be far from the idea of decentralization that crypto currency came up with.

The argument against central banks to me is not their centralization.  The problem is that they are reckless and print and print what they want and how they want, and yes, they do that because they are centralized.  But a good central bank that didn't do that would be just fine with me.  The problem is, how can we tell if and when that will happen?  We can't.  One centralized authority can just act reckless if it wants. 

With bitcoin, the production of bitcoins are set.  Everyone knows exactly how many will be created and more or less exactly when and how they will be created.  It's centralization is in its math and algorithms.  I can trust in that much more than I can a central bank's wild guess of how much money it should print this year.  So even if there are only three large mining pools, it is okay, because they can't change the rate of which bitcoins are produced. 

What can happen though that is bad, and is already happening is that mining pools are soooooo focused on just getting the block reward that they aren't even processing transactions to put in the block!  Lots of miners are refusing if the fee isn't high enough.  This is a big problem because when there are only three pools (which will probably happen), they can make back room deals and rig fees.  It is in their best interest to do so and we all know 100% the rationality and greed of acting in self interest miners have.  When and if that happens, bitcoin will be hurt. 

As long as the miners keep the bitcoins coming at a steady pace, they are like a good central bank.  But if they start screwing people on transaction fees or even not processing transactions, that is more like a bad local bank that has a total monopoly on how people can spend their personal funds.  It is just in bitcoin the bitcoin protocol is like the central bank, and the miners are like the local bankers.  So yes, centralization is very bad for bitcoin, but not in a central bank kind of way. 

NEM      Faucet      Slack Invite      Easy API’s      Light Wallet      Amazing White Paper       Supernodes     Telegram Invite     Mijin 
jabo38
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mining is so 2012-2013


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June 11, 2014, 05:30:59 AM
 #55

You guys do realize, PoW coins can just transform to PoS right...So if the dev of...idk.... Litecoin wanted to change Litecoin to PoS, he could..

So while coins like NXT may have the heads start by a little bit in the PoS department, Any other coin with terrific devs can simply turn PoS and destroy NXT's position in the PoS coin market...

But NEM will be POI (Proof Of Importance), PoW coins can't turn into that.

That makes no sense...But ok.

PoW = people doing busy work for the lottery ticket of a block reward
PoS = big stakeholders forging so they can get fees, but nobody else has a stake in maintaining the network
PoI = anybody that is upholding the network is rewarded for it (kind of makes sense)

NEM      Faucet      Slack Invite      Easy API’s      Light Wallet      Amazing White Paper       Supernodes     Telegram Invite     Mijin 
hvezdasmrti
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June 12, 2014, 08:04:51 AM
 #56

Hmm the PoI sounds well, i have probably slept because i didnt know how PoI works until now... However i worry about botnet risk. It should favour Linux machines (they are unbotnetable).

NEM supporter. Support community network, dont feed the trust. Currently out of all PnD crapcoins. Forever. Crypto should move to the next phase.
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June 13, 2014, 10:51:04 AM
 #57

You guys do realize, PoW coins can just transform to PoS right...So if the dev of...idk.... Litecoin wanted to change Litecoin to PoS, he could..

So while coins like NXT may have the heads start by a little bit in the PoS department, Any other coin with terrific devs can simply turn PoS and destroy NXT's position in the PoS coin market...

But NEM will be POI (Proof Of Importance), PoW coins can't turn into that.

That makes no sense...But ok.

PoW = people doing busy work for the lottery ticket of a block reward
PoS = big stakeholders forging so they can get fees, but nobody else has a stake in maintaining the network
PoI = anybody that is upholding the network is rewarded for it (kind of makes sense)

I've never heard of this PoI and I thought NEM was just a NXT fork with a different initial distribution system. No?
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June 13, 2014, 10:54:38 AM
 #58

I thought NEM was just a NXT fork with a different initial distribution system. No?

No
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amarha


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June 13, 2014, 12:27:14 PM
 #59

I thought NEM was just a NXT fork with a different initial distribution system. No?

No

Well that is interesting to hear for sure. Any links where I can read up on some specifics?

It's amazing how little information about new cryptocurrency tech gets propagated in the bitcoin community. Things like this should be big news.
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June 13, 2014, 12:29:46 PM
 #60

I thought NEM was just a NXT fork with a different initial distribution system. No?

No

Well that is interesting to hear for sure. Any links where I can read up on some specifics?

It's amazing how little information about new cryptocurrency tech gets propagated in the bitcoin community. Things like this should be big news.

Sure, here you go:

http://static.squarespace.com/static/52fd44e2e4b0d3e64dc22c95/t/5391cfc4e4b0b99a8edc67a6/1402064836524/investor%20handout.pdf

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/10ZVrzuS_krjRF5rMvt5oKl3IS3VOhF_qnn2faZb7KZQ/edit
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