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Author Topic: During all this fear about the 51% you missed.........  (Read 4205 times)
franky1
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June 09, 2014, 11:14:05 AM
 #21

all that is needed is services or even simple code to make a signed TX.. then the only thing that is needed to do online is PUSHTX

EG

if i input a privkey(from my paper wallet), a destination public key, and an amount to send. the opensource javascript (no server side processing) forms the TX and then puts it into a textbox or variable. which then can be sent to multiple relays such as blockchain.info and mining pool nodes

that way people dont need to have accounts and pre-deposited funds in third parties. they dont need usernames or passwords. all they need is their privkey, and 2 destination addresses (1 for recipient, 1 for change address)

I'm sure not everyone would want to go through that process for every transaction, or know how to for that reason for an average user like me. As the Bitcoin community goes that will include not so tech savy people too, so us not so tech savy people can have top of the line security without responsibility on us.
A lot of people i worked with,and they are 30 years +,still cant remember personal username and password,especially women.They need something easier if money is what we talk about,no matter bitcoin or else....

i understand this. but for multisig, the user has to remember/use atleast two long entropy keys to be able to use coins

the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

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EcosystemArt
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June 09, 2014, 11:29:36 AM
 #22

all that is needed is services or even simple code to make a signed TX.. then the only thing that is needed to do online is PUSHTX

EG

if i input a privkey(from my paper wallet), a destination public key, and an amount to send. the opensource javascript (no server side processing) forms the TX and then puts it into a textbox or variable. which then can be sent to multiple relays such as blockchain.info and mining pool nodes

that way people dont need to have accounts and pre-deposited funds in third parties. they dont need usernames or passwords. all they need is their privkey, and 2 destination addresses (1 for recipient, 1 for change address)

I'm sure not everyone would want to go through that process for every transaction, or know how to for that reason for an average user like me. As the Bitcoin community goes that will include not so tech savy people too, so us not so tech savy people can have top of the line security without responsibility on us.
A lot of people i worked with,and they are 30 years +,still cant remember personal username and password,especially women.They need something easier if money is what we talk about,no matter bitcoin or else....

i understand this. but for multisig, the user has to remember/use atleast two long entropy keys to be able to use coins

the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.
Not to forget,the new generations  i worked with,have no any problems keeping  username and password in minds ,it seems they are cool with that..........and their time is coming,keeping these informations in minds will be normal,like  we all know size of  our shoes
jonald_fyookball
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June 09, 2014, 11:43:42 AM
 #23


the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

If they don't allow the user to do it client side offline, like bitaddress.org does... then IMO its a non starter.

franky1
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June 09, 2014, 12:00:41 PM
 #24


the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

If they don't allow the user to do it client side offline, like bitaddress.org does... then IMO its a non starter.

+1 exactly. which is why i wonder why in hell it needs 2 factor, 3 sig keys to send funds all of which makes it more irritating to th user just to log in, rather than an offline transaction maker similar to bitaddress.orgs offline key generator scenario.

imagine it, frozenbits concept
1. type in username
2. type in lengthy password (most probably saved to a file if very long)
3. press login button
4. open email
5. copy code sent to email
6. paste code
7. press submit. (now finally logged in)
8. enter first sig key.
9. enter second sig key.
10. enter destination.
11. enter amount.
12. press send.

thats 7 processes a customer needs to do just to log on and then 5 to send funds. requiring 5 pieces of customer data just for login

my concept
1. enter Privkey
2. press submit
3. enter destination
4. enter amount
5. press send.

the frozenbit "wallet" should not be advertised as a personal wallet service. but as a "joint account" wallet service for board members and groups, as its very flawed for single individuals to use as a simple wallet

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Don't take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist.
jonald_fyookball
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June 09, 2014, 12:04:21 PM
 #25


the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

If they don't allow the user to do it client side offline, like bitaddress.org does... then IMO its a non starter.

+1 exactly. which is why i wonder why in hell it needs 2 factor, 3 sig keys to send funds all of which makes it more irritating to th user just to log in, rather than an offline transaction maker similar to bitaddress.orgs offline key generator scenario

Not sure what you mean exactly.  the whole point is they are providing multi sig.....anyway, it is really hard to discuss what it "needs" when it hasnt launched yet and we cant see it... i think we're just guessing.

Marlo Stanfield
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June 09, 2014, 12:05:26 PM
 #26

This does look interesting. Definitely going to be keeping an eye on the project.

And yes, I did miss this during all the fear about the 51%. Good thing you posted this to remind us Smiley

fbueller
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June 09, 2014, 01:18:08 PM
 #27

I'm amazed they generate keys and send them to users. This just goes to show that anyone will come up with a gimmicky system, which offers nothing outside new besides a 'web wallet with questionable security'. I really wish providers of such things made a better effort to ask the community for feedback before implementing such a bad design.

A client-side, offline, signing utility is going to be important since CoinBin's doesn't work for some keys.. It's a shame people are most interested in producing a new crappy wallet instead of developing core functionality first.

Also, is it just me, or who are these people with basically 0 activity posting to 'remind' us about this rubbish? Chris, Calvin, seem affiliated, this whole thing seems too much like a sham. Keep well away, it's just another web wallet.

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June 09, 2014, 02:16:52 PM
 #28

A lot of people i worked with,and they are 30 years +,still cant remember personal username and password,especially women.They need something easier if money is what we talk about,no matter bitcoin or else....

that why QR-code must be used ... in any advertizing campaign.
Marlo Stanfield
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June 09, 2014, 02:18:03 PM
 #29

I'm amazed they generate keys and send them to users. This just goes to show that anyone will come up with a gimmicky system, which offers nothing outside new besides a 'web wallet with questionable security'. I really wish providers of such things made a better effort to ask the community for feedback before implementing such a bad design.

A client-side, offline, signing utility is going to be important since CoinBin's doesn't work for some keys.. It's a shame people are most interested in producing a new crappy wallet instead of developing core functionality first.

Also, is it just me, or who are these people with basically 0 activity posting to 'remind' us about this rubbish? Chris, Calvin, seem affiliated, this whole thing seems too much like a sham. Keep well away, it's just another web wallet.

I can't speak for anyone else but I have absolutely no affiliation with anyone and I hadn't heard of this project before this post.

FrozenBit
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June 09, 2014, 02:53:40 PM
 #30


all that is needed is services or even simple code to make a signed TX.. then the only thing that is needed to do online

i understand this. but for multisig, the user has to remember/use atleast two long entropy keys to be able to use coins

the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

I would like to state to franky you've made that comment days before we've given information on the service. Therefore I'd like to digress from the assumption we make keys, as it's all done client side. The fundamental flaw in you idea is you have to actively have your key stored. Since that's done your risk of theft goes up 25%

 Your idea is just that, our project is open source so you'll quickly find all claims debunked.  You could add onto what weve done with your idea, but all I'm seeing is flags from that. I personally woulsnt use anything that requires me to store my key just to log in.

 Please do refrain from speculation days before the announcement. To put you down lightly you're just wrong.
 
 Also note nothing is set in stone, code can be changed. Features will be added so give it time to get it right or you can ask satoshi why he took more than an hour to make Bitcoin.

 Were only a public stepping stone onto multisig. But I give you this task, get 5 people to use bitcoin today. Then try to show them the code. Odds are they'll be steered by that. So let's remove the oh look we can remove this step talk. It's only a crafty way we've been designing to show the protocol is a much more acute way.
FrozenBit
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June 09, 2014, 06:49:01 PM
 #31


 Thanks for your questions, please do check out the release on thursday to see the real information of the wallet. Like previously stated it's open source so anyone can use, change and enjoy the site the way they want to.
Ron~Popeil
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June 09, 2014, 07:06:51 PM
 #32


all that is needed is services or even simple code to make a signed TX.. then the only thing that is needed to do online

i understand this. but for multisig, the user has to remember/use atleast two long entropy keys to be able to use coins

the thing that i find funny is that frozenbit does the generating of the 3 keys and gives them to users.. which i find less secure and less user friendly than simply allowing me to use my own privkey offline, which is also easier to input and keep safe.

I would like to state to franky you've made that comment days before we've given information on the service. Therefore I'd like to digress from the assumption we make keys, as it's all done client side. The fundamental flaw in you idea is you have to actively have your key stored. Since that's done your risk of theft goes up 25%

 Your idea is just that, our project is open source so you'll quickly find all claims debunked.  You could add onto what weve done with your idea, but all I'm seeing is flags from that. I personally woulsnt use anything that requires me to store my key just to log in.

 Please do refrain from speculation days before the announcement. To put you down lightly you're just wrong.
 
 Also note nothing is set in stone, code can be changed. Features will be added so give it time to get it right or you can ask satoshi why he took more than an hour to make Bitcoin.

 Were only a public stepping stone onto multisig. But I give you this task, get 5 people to use bitcoin today. Then try to show them the code. Odds are they'll be steered by that. So let's remove the oh look we can remove this step talk. It's only a crafty way we've been designing to show the protocol is a much more acute way.

There will always be people that don't like a service for whatever reason. For me the fact that you are making it open source makes it more trustworthy. I am looking forward to checking it out. 

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June 09, 2014, 07:13:18 PM
 #33

Looks very interesting, can't wait for the launch.

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June 09, 2014, 07:31:05 PM
 #34

If I have to use a multisig online wallet the only things I ask for are:

in a 2 of 3 multisign I have to create the 3 priv keys  and I am the one who gives one of them to the online wallet.

the other 2 will be cold priv keys  ( one on a trezor/coldwallet and the other on a paperwallet)


privs keys generated for third-parties ( or even online created ones) are not enough for a serious user.

IMHO is better an aproach like this:
https://api.trustedcoin.com/#/example-2-of-3



Bitmessage: BM-2DAetLWJBKWHZoPbNCgg5z8jwaPpDYWwd4
gpg key id:C6EF5CE3
FrozenBit
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June 09, 2014, 07:42:21 PM
 #35

If I have to use a multisig online wallet the only things I ask for are:

in a 2 of 3 multisign I have to create the 3 priv keys  and I am the one who gives one of them to the online wallet.

the other 2 will be cold priv keys  ( one on a trezor/coldwallet and the other on a paperwallet)


privs keys generated for third-parties are not enough for a serious user.

IMHO is better an aproach like this:
https://api.trustedcoin.com/#/example-2-of-3




 Everything is done in browser for you, client side. So you technically make the keys. Using the open-source portion you can create your own addresses offline. Thus fufilling both your requests. What needs to be known is this product has to be able to reach everyone. Not just technically proficent, it's IMPERATIVE for the spread of multisig.

"Priv keys generated for third-parties are not enough for a serious user."

 That claim isn't tested, so I can't attest or confirm that. No business I know of is currently embracing multi-sig. I do know of businesses I've been in contact with that does want to use multi-sig but just couldn't piece it together.

 Bitcoin is built for a global economy so no one has to exchange currency anymore. All money united into one math based coin. Multisig is based on securing pockets trustlessly and providing the need for businesses to get involved. The last thing we want to hear about is a business getting robbed of millions in coins because a rouge employee or floating key.

 Trusted coin is nice, but it has a withdraw delay. If you need to pay on the fly you simply can't. Also it's a little clunky and it's not clear on how to access your coins. Simplicity, usability and accessibility is what FrozenBit does.
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June 09, 2014, 07:56:42 PM
 #36

If I have to use a multisig online wallet the only things I ask for are:

in a 2 of 3 multisign I have to create the 3 priv keys  and I am the one who gives one of them to the online wallet.

the other 2 will be cold priv keys  ( one on a trezor/coldwallet and the other on a paperwallet)


privs keys generated for third-parties are not enough for a serious user.

IMHO is better an aproach like this:
https://api.trustedcoin.com/#/example-2-of-3




 Everything is done in browser for you, client side. So you technically make the keys. Using the open-source portion you can create your own addresses offline. Thus fufilling both your requests. What needs to be known is this product has to be able to reach everyone. Not just technically proficent, it's IMPERATIVE for the spread of multisig.


"Priv keys generated for third-parties are not enough for a serious user."

 That claim isn't tested, so I can't attest or confirm that. No business I know of is currently embracing multi-sig. I do know of businesses I've been in contact with that does want to use multi-sig but just couldn't piece it together.

 Bitcoin is built for a global economy so no one has to exchange currency anymore. All money united into one math based coin. Multisig is based on securing pockets trustlessly and providing the need for businesses to get involved. The last thing we want to hear about is a business getting robbed of millions in coins because a rouge employee or floating key.

 Trusted coin is nice, but it has a withdraw delay. If you need to pay on the fly you simply can't. Also it's a little clunky and it's not clear on how to access your coins. Simplicity, usability and accessibility is what FrozenBit does.

Can All three keys be generated offline? and then, one of them sent to you? sorry if i didnt undestand, but not too much info about how it works in your web/post

I understand your desire of bringing  easiness , but when we talk about btc, security goes first.


watching this project.... good luck


Bitmessage: BM-2DAetLWJBKWHZoPbNCgg5z8jwaPpDYWwd4
gpg key id:C6EF5CE3
FrozenBit
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June 09, 2014, 08:03:51 PM
 #37

If I have to use a multisig online wallet the only things I ask for are:

in a 2 of 3 multisign I have to create the 3 priv keys  and I am the one who gives one of them to the online wallet.

the other 2 will be cold priv keys  ( one on a trezor/coldwallet and the other on a paperwallet)


privs keys generated for third-parties are not enough for a serious user.

IMHO is better an aproach like this:
https://api.trustedcoin.com/#/example-2-of-3




 Everything is done in browser for you, client side. So you technically make the keys. Using the open-source portion you can create your own addresses offline. Thus fufilling both your requests. What needs to be known is this product has to be able to reach everyone. Not just technically proficent, it's IMPERATIVE for the spread of multisig.


"Priv keys generated for third-parties are not enough for a serious user."

 That claim isn't tested, so I can't attest or confirm that. No business I know of is currently embracing multi-sig. I do know of businesses I've been in contact with that does want to use multi-sig but just couldn't piece it together.

 Bitcoin is built for a global economy so no one has to exchange currency anymore. All money united into one math based coin. Multisig is based on securing pockets trustlessly and providing the need for businesses to get involved. The last thing we want to hear about is a business getting robbed of millions in coins because a rouge employee or floating key.

 Trusted coin is nice, but it has a withdraw delay. If you need to pay on the fly you simply can't. Also it's a little clunky and it's not clear on how to access your coins. Simplicity, usability and accessibility is what FrozenBit does.

Can All three keys be generated offline? and then, one of them sent to you? sorry if i didnt undestand, but not too much info about how it works in your web/post

I understand your desire of bringing  easiness , but when we talk about btc, security goes first.


watching this project.... good luck



 Stay tuned for Thursday when we release full information, this was simply to spread awareness of the project (a teaser).

 Also watch for video releasing soon!
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June 10, 2014, 01:30:53 AM
 #38

 Just read through all of frozenbits replys, looking forward to this release.

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June 10, 2014, 04:53:05 AM
 #39

Great, this is a good step towards even better community

FrozenBit
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June 12, 2014, 06:28:02 PM
 #40

Announcement will happen in less than 5 hours from now.
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