P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ?

[newIndia]

If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X.

Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ?

Some of them run it for free for others. Some people set up their own nodes and mine it on their own node as it have less latency and traffic.

So, unless a P2Pool owner has his own mining equipment, he's not gonna profit from this ...right ? Because, like a normal pool owner, he cant charge ...is not it ?

Unless you impose a fee and people are still interested to join it which is unlikely.

Is it possible at all to impose a fee on mining payout for a P2Pool ?

Yes, if you run this command,
screen -d -m -S btcp2pool ~/p2pool/run_p2pool.py (username) (Bitcoind password)
It will automatically donate a small amount of the miner's revenue to you.

Thank u so much ...u have been very helpful

Do u know if a pool (P2Pool or normal) can be setup on Google App Engine ?

I don't really think this is possible, it is also quite expensive, try buying a dedicated server or VPS to host it. Their official website is http://p2pool.in/

Appengine provides daily 28 instances for free. I'm running some of my low traffic sites over there. I heard P2Pool does not take much of server resource ...so I thought we can run one for free on Appengine.

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[ranochigo]

If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X.

Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ?

Some of them run it for free for others. Some people set up their own nodes and mine it on their own node as it have less latency and traffic.

So, unless a P2Pool owner has his own mining equipment, he's not gonna profit from this ...right ? Because, like a normal pool owner, he cant charge ...is not it ?

Unless you impose a fee and people are still interested to join it which is unlikely.

Is it possible at all to impose a fee on mining payout for a P2Pool ?

Yes, if you run this command,
screen -d -m -S btcp2pool ~/p2pool/run_p2pool.py (username) (Bitcoind password)
It will automatically donate a small amount of the miner's revenue to you.

Thank u so much ...u have been very helpful

Do u know if a pool (P2Pool or normal) can be setup on Google App Engine ?

I don't really think this is possible, it is also quite expensive, try buying a dedicated server or VPS to host it. Their official website is http://p2pool.in/

Appengine provides daily 28 instances for free. I'm running some of my low traffic sites over there. I heard P2Pool does not take much of server resource ...so I thought we can run one for free on Appengine.

I don't think the resources would be enough for you to host a mining pool, they require a higher specs and maybe ddos protection, I also don't think it can run on Google app engine.

[InwardContour]

Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you

[newIndia]

Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you

Sorry... I dont get your point. Why are u assuming a P2Pool will be small ? If it can offer proper service to miners it may become big like GHash.IO as well. Is not it ?

[ranochigo]

Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you

In the long run, both p2pool and big normal pools can have the same amount of payout, I believe p2poool will have a bit higher payout.

[InwardContour]

Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you

In the long run, both p2pool and big normal pools can have the same amount of payout, I believe p2poool will have a bit higher payout.

Why would p2pool have a higher payout? There is nothing to support this (AFAIK)

The problem is that when difficulty increases a "luck" of 100% will be less, so if your luck is 90% during one period of difficulty and then 110% luck the next difficulty then your total reward will be less then if you had 95% luck over both difficulty periods (assuming a 20% increase in difficulty).

Additionally p2pool does not generally offer any kind of merged mining while most major pools do.

[ranochigo]

Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you

In the long run, both p2pool and big normal pools can have the same amount of payout, I believe p2poool will have a bit higher payout.

Why would p2pool have a higher payout? There is nothing to support this (AFAIK)

The problem is that when difficulty increases a "luck" of 100% will be less, so if your luck is 90% during one period of difficulty and then 110% luck the next difficulty then your total reward will be less then if you had 95% luck over both difficulty periods (assuming a 20% increase in difficulty).

Additionally p2pool does not generally offer any kind of merged mining while most major pools do.

P2pool actually offers merged mining options. Pools usually require a fee, and due to the fact that most of the pools have high latency, you might experience a higher amount of rejects. With p2pool, you can setup your own node and you can experience a lesser latency. The luck will gradually even out. I don't think the luck affects much of the payouts. No pool can experience good luck for the whole time, the luck does not actually affects the payout since sometimes p2pool find blocks faster than normal pools.

[jonnybravo0311]

If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X.

Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ?

Some of them run it for free for others. Some people set up their own nodes and mine it on their own node as it have less latency and traffic.

So, unless a P2Pool owner has his own mining equipment, he's not gonna profit from this ...right ? Because, like a normal pool owner, he cant charge ...is not it ?

Unless you impose a fee and people are still interested to join it which is unlikely.

Is it possible at all to impose a fee on mining payout for a P2Pool ?

Yes, if you run this command,
screen -d -m -S btcp2pool ~/p2pool/run_p2pool.py (username) (Bitcoind password)
It will automatically donate a small amount of the miner's revenue to you.

That is incorrect.  If you run your p2pool node as you describe, your node will donate 1% of the earnings to the author of p2pool.  If you want to charge a fee for miners to use your node, you need to add the -f argument.  Example:

Code:

./run_p2pool.py -f 1.0

This will charge people who mine on your node 1% as well as donate 1% to the author of p2pool.  You can set the percentage to whatever you want (up to 100).  If you want to change how much you donate to the author, you can do that with the --give-author command.

You can most certainly merge-mine on p2pool.  As of now, you can mine NMC, DVC, IXC, I0C, FSC, HUC along with BTC on a p2pool node.  Your node's hashing power is combined and used to try and solve blocks for each of those coins.  The difference between schemes like those at GHash, Eligius, BTCGuild is that those pools pay the miners, whereas p2pool pays the node.  If you want to pay your miners proceeds from merged-mined coins, you'll have to do so manually as they will not be automatically paid.

There is a very nice comparison thread showing earnings from p2pool, Eligius and BTCGuild here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=416933.0

One of the nice features of p2pool is the ability to donate - and surprisingly, people do indeed donate.  That is one advantage over mining the other pools.

[Harley997]

Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you

In the long run, both p2pool and big normal pools can have the same amount of payout, I believe p2poool will have a bit higher payout.

Why would p2pool have a higher payout? There is nothing to support this (AFAIK)

The problem is that when difficulty increases a "luck" of 100% will be less, so if your luck is 90% during one period of difficulty and then 110% luck the next difficulty then your total reward will be less then if you had 95% luck over both difficulty periods (assuming a 20% increase in difficulty).

Additionally p2pool does not generally offer any kind of merged mining while most major pools do.

P2pool actually offers merged mining options. Pools usually require a fee, and due to the fact that most of the pools have high latency, you might experience a higher amount of rejects. With p2pool, you can setup your own node and you can experience a lesser latency. The luck will gradually even out. I don't think the luck affects much of the payouts. No pool can experience good luck for the whole time, the luck does not actually affects the payout since sometimes p2pool find blocks faster than normal pools.

Both ghash and eligius do not charge a fee and both offer merged mining.

Assuming no variance then both p2p and a "real" pool will have the same payout, however with p2p there is a greater chance of having some kind of variance (and a 50/50 chance of that variance of being negative) with the smaller size in relation to the whole network

[ranochigo]

Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you

In the long run, both p2pool and big normal pools can have the same amount of payout, I believe p2poool will have a bit higher payout.

Why would p2pool have a higher payout? There is nothing to support this (AFAIK)

The problem is that when difficulty increases a "luck" of 100% will be less, so if your luck is 90% during one period of difficulty and then 110% luck the next difficulty then your total reward will be less then if you had 95% luck over both difficulty periods (assuming a 20% increase in difficulty).

Additionally p2pool does not generally offer any kind of merged mining while most major pools do.

P2pool actually offers merged mining options. Pools usually require a fee, and due to the fact that most of the pools have high latency, you might experience a higher amount of rejects. With p2pool, you can setup your own node and you can experience a lesser latency. The luck will gradually even out. I don't think the luck affects much of the payouts. No pool can experience good luck for the whole time, the luck does not actually affects the payout since sometimes p2pool find blocks faster than normal pools.

Both ghash and eligius do not charge a fee and both offer merged mining.

Assuming no variance then both p2p and a "real" pool will have the same payout, however with p2p there is a greater chance of having some kind of variance (and a 50/50 chance of that variance of being negative) with the smaller size in relation to the whole network

There are both pros and cons for using p2pool or an actual pool. Pools could have downtimes, and you can setup a backup pool but it is troublesome to even withdraw from both sides, assuming both have a 90% up time, your backup pool might not have enough btc for the cash out limit and may charge fees. If you use p2pool , you can expect a 99% uptime since the nodes cannot be ddosed. Obviously, normal pools would have better support for newer hardwares, while p2pool don't, that is a major draw back for users.

[Harley997]

Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you

In the long run, both p2pool and big normal pools can have the same amount of payout, I believe p2poool will have a bit higher payout.

Why would p2pool have a higher payout? There is nothing to support this (AFAIK)

The problem is that when difficulty increases a "luck" of 100% will be less, so if your luck is 90% during one period of difficulty and then 110% luck the next difficulty then your total reward will be less then if you had 95% luck over both difficulty periods (assuming a 20% increase in difficulty).

Additionally p2pool does not generally offer any kind of merged mining while most major pools do.

P2pool actually offers merged mining options. Pools usually require a fee, and due to the fact that most of the pools have high latency, you might experience a higher amount of rejects. With p2pool, you can setup your own node and you can experience a lesser latency. The luck will gradually even out. I don't think the luck affects much of the payouts. No pool can experience good luck for the whole time, the luck does not actually affects the payout since sometimes p2pool find blocks faster than normal pools.

Both ghash and eligius do not charge a fee and both offer merged mining.

Assuming no variance then both p2p and a "real" pool will have the same payout, however with p2p there is a greater chance of having some kind of variance (and a 50/50 chance of that variance of being negative) with the smaller size in relation to the whole network

There are both pros and cons for using p2pool or an actual pool. Pools could have downtimes, and you can setup a backup pool but it is troublesome to even withdraw from both sides, assuming both have a 90% up time, your backup pool might not have enough btc for the cash out limit and may charge fees. If you use p2pool , you can expect a 99% uptime since the nodes cannot be ddosed. Obviously, normal pools would have better support for newer hardwares, while p2pool don't, that is a major draw back for users.

I would say that the major selling point with p2pool is the fact that it is decentralized.

Most larger pools have some level of DDoS protection for all miners and some have additional protection like private servers for larger miners.

It is very rare that a pool would not have enough BTC to allow a cashout as they should not be spending any coins that belong to the miners.

[Nagato4]

One of the nice features of p2pool is the ability to donate - and surprisingly, people do indeed donate.  That is one advantage over mining the other pools.

IMO, the real surprising fact to me is that, only a tiny fraction of people are willing to donate and support the developer.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg7430095#msg7430095

Despite that, it is hard to work on this project when most people insist on cutting off the pool donations to me. When I see guides telling people to use --give-author 0 without any mention made of what it does, people blindly following them, or people asking me for help, providing screenshots of them running P2Pool with donations disabled, it hurts a bit. Actually, more than a bit. Right now, I get 0.09% of the revenue from P2Pool due to node donations (which default to 1%), which likely means that about 90% of people have completely disabled donations. That doesn't result in much revenue. Just today I spent about 10 hours getting http://p2pool.info/ working, which is the equivalent of two weeks of pool donations - if I were being paid minimum wage! I don't have a job (I am a student) and I do have other side-ventures that I'm working towards that look a bit more optimistic, so pardon me for rationally allocating my free time.

[Nagato4]

Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you

Sorry... I dont get your point. Why are u assuming a P2Pool will be small ? If it can offer proper service to miners it may become big like GHash.IO as well. Is not it ?

Indeed, the p2pool hashrate is about 450 TH/s now (http://p2pool.info/), which is just about 0.36% of total network hashrate.
So, IMO, it is fair to say p2pool is very small...

[InwardContour]

Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you

Sorry... I dont get your point. Why are u assuming a P2Pool will be small ? If it can offer proper service to miners it may become big like GHash.IO as well. Is not it ?

Indeed, the p2pool hashrate is about 450 TH/s now (http://p2pool.info/), which is just about 0.36% of total network hashrate.
So, IMO, it is fair to say p2pool is very small...

with it being this small miners have the issue of a large amount of variance.

[newIndia]

Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you

Sorry... I dont get your point. Why are u assuming a P2Pool will be small ? If it can offer proper service to miners it may become big like GHash.IO as well. Is not it ?

Indeed, the p2pool hashrate is about 450 TH/s now (http://p2pool.info/), which is just about 0.36% of total network hashrate.
So, IMO, it is fair to say p2pool is very small...

with it being this small miners have the issue of a large amount of variance.

Does P2Pool means joining this existing one ? Cant we build our own P2Pool separate from this ?

[Crossbow376]

Does P2Pool means joining this existing one ? Cant we build our own P2Pool separate from this ?

You can use any existing p2pool nodes. You can setup a new node.
You may build your own peer-to-peer mining software if you really want to go that way...

[InwardContour]

Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you

Sorry... I dont get your point. Why are u assuming a P2Pool will be small ? If it can offer proper service to miners it may become big like GHash.IO as well. Is not it ?

Indeed, the p2pool hashrate is about 450 TH/s now (http://p2pool.info/), which is just about 0.36% of total network hashrate.
So, IMO, it is fair to say p2pool is very small...

with it being this small miners have the issue of a large amount of variance.

Does P2Pool means joining this existing one ? Cant we build our own P2Pool separate from this ?

You can create your own p2pool node or join any p2pool node that you want.