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Author Topic: The Open Business  (Read 1743 times)
Este Nuno
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June 22, 2014, 03:57:20 PM
 #21


One potential solution is what I talk about when I say "trusted founder, backed by investors".
A key would be given to other founders, whcih has been trusted in the past for other businesses performance.
Such performance is easy to prove (founder owns PaymentKeys of other business), and can't be faked.

That's an interesting idea. Established founders who have already built trust can be used in a sort of "overseer" role. They could collect a fee and build their reputation while protecting the investors.
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June 22, 2014, 04:13:13 PM
 #22

It sounds like you're in the process of serendipitously reinventing DACs (Digital Autonomous Corporations), something enabled by the blockchain and bitcoin protocol. A quick google should give enough resources to make yourself familiar.

[1] http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7050/bootstrapping-a-decentralized-autonomous-corporation-part-i/ (series)
[2] http://coinwiki.info/en/Decentralized_autonomous_corporation

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Nicolas Dorier
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June 22, 2014, 05:35:08 PM
 #23

It sounds like you're in the process of serendipitously reinventing DACs (Digital Autonomous Corporations), something enabled by the blockchain and bitcoin protocol. A quick google should give enough resources to make yourself familiar.

[1] http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7050/bootstrapping-a-decentralized-autonomous-corporation-part-i/ (series)
[2] http://coinwiki.info/en/Decentralized_autonomous_corporation

I've read the bitcoinmagazine article some times ago, interesting links.
They talk about the general idea, the goal now is to make it technically possible, and create the software for. (which I want to develop)

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June 23, 2014, 04:10:13 AM
 #24

Opening a new business is more or less compete with the current one.

Competition drives down profit. So be careful who you go after.
I don't understand your point.
I don't want to open a business, I am talking about a way to make a create a business whose financial existence would exist on the bitcoin network. (Votes, Shares, and profit alike)

Do you mean that such system would create high business creation, and drive competition up, so would crush profit to the current one ?
This seems more like feature than a bug for me.

It is impossible to do due diligence with this kind of company.

One part of corporate america is that people are held responsible when mistakes are made.

Is management is anonymous then it will be impossible to see that people are held accountable.

.

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Nicolas Dorier
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June 23, 2014, 10:15:13 AM
 #25

Opening a new business is more or less compete with the current one.

Competition drives down profit. So be careful who you go after.
I don't understand your point.
I don't want to open a business, I am talking about a way to make a create a business whose financial existence would exist on the bitcoin network. (Votes, Shares, and profit alike)

Do you mean that such system would create high business creation, and drive competition up, so would crush profit to the current one ?
This seems more like feature than a bug for me.

It is impossible to do due diligence with this kind of company.

One part of corporate america is that people are held responsible when mistakes are made.

Is management is anonymous then it will be impossible to see that people are held accountable.

InvardContour, I want to keep founders and investors anonymous, because they can't be sued. It is a feature, not a limit.
The Open Business, like Bitcoin, won't use the justice system to protect itself, but a system of incentives so we don't need justice.

However, the real reason why people should be anonymous, at least for the beginning, is because of the emission of shares with the form of CC.
A normal IPO is heavily restricted to big companies, and by paying large fees to banks. Emitting CC bypass this system, and I fear that such thing is illegal.

Moreover, the founder can't give information about the investors and from where the funds come from, since there would be no centralized institution to emit and trade CC.
Such thing would make impossible for the IRS to fight against money laundering.

This two reasons, to my mind, would make such business illegal. Thus anonymity should be kept.

And yes, recourse would be impossible, which is the heart of the problem.
How to give incentives to the founder to not fraud ?

The goal is to lift the international, bureaucratic, fiscal and political barriers for worldwide entrepreneurship and funding. And sadly, there is no legal way to do it.

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June 23, 2014, 12:18:36 PM
 #26

how does this differ from the etherium project?
and doesn't eth solve most of your problems already?

from what I understand you should be able to do this entirely in eth without any trust.
I have been researching the same kind of thing and don't understand why would want a layer on top of btc instead of running it all natively inside a blockchain.

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Nicolas Dorier
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June 23, 2014, 12:48:53 PM
Last edit: June 23, 2014, 01:03:17 PM by Nicolas Dorier
 #27

how does this differ from the etherium project?
and doesn't eth solve most of your problems already?

from what I understand you should be able to do this entirely in eth without any trust.
I have been researching the same kind of thing and don't understand why would want a layer on top of btc instead of running it all natively inside a blockchain.

I have not informed myself enough on eth to comment on that.
However, the problem is not a technological one.
Technologically speaking, Bitcoin as well as eth to support an open business. So why using eth ?

The problem is pure game theory. How to setup incentives to not fraud without a legal system ?
The response is more structural than technological.

But maybe I am missing something about eth. Can you tell me how eth would respond to this problem ? Why bitcoin can't ?

Quote
I have been researching the same kind of thing and don't understand why would want a layer on top of btc instead of running it all natively inside a blockchain.

I don't understand what you mean. A layer on top of btc can at the same time run natively inside a blockchain. Colored Coins is such thing.

Bitcoin address 15sYbVpRh6dyWycZMwPdxJWD4xbfxReeHe
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June 23, 2014, 01:00:09 PM
 #28

Because of the ability to run code inside the blockchain your business can be completely trustless.
You basically need to come up with a contract structure and it becomes law.
You can not cheat it.

all the payments can be made to be automated including the shares payout for stakeholders/investors. I'm a bit busy at the moment so I have no time to go in to much detail now but will be happy to discuss it here or over pm.

Eth is designed specifically to do what you want

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Este Nuno
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amarha


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June 23, 2014, 03:32:32 PM
 #29

Because of the ability to run code inside the blockchain your business can be completely trustless.
You basically need to come up with a contract structure and it becomes law.
You can not cheat it.

all the payments can be made to be automated including the shares payout for stakeholders/investors. I'm a bit busy at the moment so I have no time to go in to much detail now but will be happy to discuss it here or over pm.

Eth is designed specifically to do what you want

If ethereum is going to do all that perhaps he can just build his idea within ethereum?
Nicolas Dorier
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June 23, 2014, 03:54:53 PM
 #30

Because of the ability to run code inside the blockchain your business can be completely trustless.
You basically need to come up with a contract structure and it becomes law.
You can not cheat it.

all the payments can be made to be automated including the shares payout for stakeholders/investors. I'm a bit busy at the moment so I have no time to go in to much detail now but will be happy to discuss it here or over pm.

Eth is designed specifically to do what you want

If ethereum is going to do all that perhaps he can just build his idea within ethereum?

Yes, I would if there is such advantages. But as long as eth is not up and running, I'll work on the Bitcoin way to do that.
I'll educate myself better on the subject, but to my knoweledge eth is always in development.
Seeing the size of their team, also mean that the shipping date will be impacted. Meanwhile I continue the Bitcoin way.

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Este Nuno
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amarha


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June 23, 2014, 04:03:12 PM
 #31

Because of the ability to run code inside the blockchain your business can be completely trustless.
You basically need to come up with a contract structure and it becomes law.
You can not cheat it.

all the payments can be made to be automated including the shares payout for stakeholders/investors. I'm a bit busy at the moment so I have no time to go in to much detail now but will be happy to discuss it here or over pm.

Eth is designed specifically to do what you want

If ethereum is going to do all that perhaps he can just build his idea within ethereum?

Yes, I would if there is such advantages. But as long as eth is not up and running, I'll work on the Bitcoin way to do that.
I'll educate myself better on the subject, but to my knoweledge eth is always in development.
Seeing the size of their team, also mean that the shipping date will be impacted. Meanwhile I continue the Bitcoin way.

The most important thing right is now anyway is like you said: figuring out the optimal strategy so that the incentives line up. getting the game theory right is the key.
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June 24, 2014, 07:05:58 AM
 #32


The most important thing right is now anyway is like you said: figuring out the optimal strategy so that the incentives line up. getting the game theory right is the key.

very true; converting it to a eth contract is easy once you have the right concept and workflows.

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