Is Bitcoin not decentralized anymore?

[ajareselde]

Agreed the core dev team have too much power and this is a real threat to the future of Bitcoin.

Yeah, they have way too much power, but doesnt the network also have to agree if major changes are about to be made ?
I think the combination of devs and lets say a big pool like ghash.io can (will) be the possible doom of bitcoin

[Yakamoto]

Ok if ANYONE does their own research they'd see that GHash.io is now hovering at around 40%, NOT the 51% everyone is claiming.

I'm actually going to start linking people to the pie charts if I keep seeing this stupidity. It's not funny anymore. Do something by yourself instead of having it fed to you by people on the forum.

GHash.io has been dropping for the past few days. I think everything's is kind of getting resolved.

[S4VV4S]

Ok if ANYONE does their own research they'd see that GHash.io is now hovering at around 40%, NOT the 51% everyone is claiming.

I'm actually going to start linking people to the pie charts if I keep seeing this stupidity. It's not funny anymore. Do something by yourself instead of having it fed to you by people on the forum.

GHash.io has been dropping for the past few days. I think everything's is kind of getting resolved.

You should follow your own advice and do some research yourself.

[Yakamoto]

Ok if ANYONE does their own research they'd see that GHash.io is now hovering at around 40%, NOT the 51% everyone is claiming.

I'm actually going to start linking people to the pie charts if I keep seeing this stupidity. It's not funny anymore. Do something by yourself instead of having it fed to you by people on the forum.

GHash.io has been dropping for the past few days. I think everything's is kind of getting resolved.

You should follow your own advice and do some research yourself.

Look at this before you make assumptions

Good to know you were spoon fed too.

[S4VV4S]

Ok if ANYONE does their own research they'd see that GHash.io is now hovering at around 40%, NOT the 51% everyone is claiming.

I'm actually going to start linking people to the pie charts if I keep seeing this stupidity. It's not funny anymore. Do something by yourself instead of having it fed to you by people on the forum.

GHash.io has been dropping for the past few days. I think everything's is kind of getting resolved.

You should follow your own advice and do some research yourself.

Look at this before you make assumptions

Good to know you were spoon fed too.

Are you serious?

[Willisius]

Ghash is back to 33%, you can go back to sleep now, nothing to see here.

They are hiding their real power.

I think the 51% we witnessed was a demonstration of power. I do not know for what reason.

They could have blocked miners as to keep their hash rates down as they did before, but they didn't.

I would say that GHash has MUCH more than 51%.

That being said, I do have some of my miners pointed at them.

EDIT: On the subject, NO, I don't believe that BTC is decentralized anymore.
In fact, the fact that we depend on the core dev team for anything means it is centralized, and from what I understand the core dev team is under the TBF orders.
Apart from that BTC mining is completely centralized.

WTF man! You think they have over 51% and you still point miners at them... Where is your logic?!?

Think about it, if they have more than 51% what is 720Gh going to do if I remove it from them?
720Gh means jack shit for hashing power. Apart from that I would like to at least get my investment back (which I didn't yet).
I also have more than that on other pools - I don't like to keep all my eggs in one basket

Emphasis added

The problem there is that many agree with you. It adds up.

[Yakamoto]

Ok if ANYONE does their own research they'd see that GHash.io is now hovering at around 40%, NOT the 51% everyone is claiming.

I'm actually going to start linking people to the pie charts if I keep seeing this stupidity. It's not funny anymore. Do something by yourself instead of having it fed to you by people on the forum.

GHash.io has been dropping for the past few days. I think everything's is kind of getting resolved.

You should follow your own advice and do some research yourself.

Look at this before you make assumptions

Good to know you were spoon fed too.

Are you serious?

Ok then you tell me where this hyper-accurate chart is.

It was unnecessary to say "Good to know you where spoon fed too" but the concept is the same. The chart even shows decreases over the past few days.

[phillipsjk]

WTF man! You think they have over 51% and you still point miners at them... Where is your logic?!?

Think about it, if they have more than 51% what is 720Gh going to do if I remove it from them?
720Gh means jack shit for hashing power. Apart from that I would like to at least get my investment back (which I didn't yet).
I also have more than that on other pools - I don't like to keep all my eggs in one basket

Raindrops become a torrent.

... Recently, my brother reminded me that I claimed a 51% attack could not happen because people would desperately add hash-power to the network (even at a loss) to stop it.

People seem to be saying: "my hash-power does not make a difference, so I might as well benefit from the lower variance." The unseen risk is that concentration on only one pool may dramatically increase the variance in price.

[Gimmelfarb]

this has been a very big weakness for a long time, and i hope that bitcoiners and miners come to realize it. why tout decentralization if the building blocks of the network (miners) are centralized? especially when we have the capability not to mine in this manner?

[S4VV4S]

Ok if ANYONE does their own research they'd see that GHash.io is now hovering at around 40%, NOT the 51% everyone is claiming.

I'm actually going to start linking people to the pie charts if I keep seeing this stupidity. It's not funny anymore. Do something by yourself instead of having it fed to you by people on the forum.

GHash.io has been dropping for the past few days. I think everything's is kind of getting resolved.

You should follow your own advice and do some research yourself.

Look at this before you make assumptions

Good to know you were spoon fed too.

Are you serious?

Ok then you tell me where this hyper-accurate chart is.

It was unnecessary to say "Good to know you where spoon fed too" but the concept is the same. The chart even shows decreases over the past few days.

Bro, the post just above this one (yours) says that I have some of my miners pointed at GHash, call it selfish or whatever I don't give a fuck anymore bcoz people are just too blind to see a few things that are so fucking obvious.
That being said, I am not neither with or against GHash, I am against the fact that the core dev team allowed this to happen.

I will leave it at that so I can respond to the post above this one.
Have a good one.

[phillipsjk]

Historically, only 2 viable solutions exist:
1) An authority to regulate (% in this case)
2) Privatization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons#Modern_solutions

Pick your poison..... but be quick about it.

You forgot:
3) The community is small enough for ostracism to work (less than about 150 people).

[S4VV4S]

Ghash is back to 33%, you can go back to sleep now, nothing to see here.

They are hiding their real power.

I think the 51% we witnessed was a demonstration of power. I do not know for what reason.

They could have blocked miners as to keep their hash rates down as they did before, but they didn't.

I would say that GHash has MUCH more than 51%.

That being said, I do have some of my miners pointed at them.

EDIT: On the subject, NO, I don't believe that BTC is decentralized anymore.
In fact, the fact that we depend on the core dev team for anything means it is centralized, and from what I understand the core dev team is under the TBF orders.
Apart from that BTC mining is completely centralized.

WTF man! You think they have over 51% and you still point miners at them... Where is your logic?!?

Think about it, if they have more than 51% what is 720Gh going to do if I remove it from them?
720Gh means jack shit for hashing power. Apart from that I would like to at least get my investment back (which I didn't yet).
I also have more than that on other pools - I don't like to keep all my eggs in one basket

Emphasis added

The problem there is that many agree with you. It adds up.

Emphasis added

[S4VV4S]

WTF man! You think they have over 51% and you still point miners at them... Where is your logic?!?

Think about it, if they have more than 51% what is 720Gh going to do if I remove it from them?
720Gh means jack shit for hashing power. Apart from that I would like to at least get my investment back (which I didn't yet).
I also have more than that on other pools - I don't like to keep all my eggs in one basket

Raindrops become a torrent.

... Recently, my brother reminded me that I claimed a 51% attack could not happen because people would desperately add hash-power to the network (even at a loss) to stop it.

People seem to be saying: "my hash-power does not make a difference, so I might as well benefit from the lower variance." The unseen risk is that concentration on only one pool may dramatically increase the variance in price.

I have heard about selective hearing but never heard of selective reading before....
Read what I wrote.
I emphasized it for you.
Have a good one.

[phillipsjk]

I have heard about selective hearing but never heard of selective reading before....
Read what I wrote.
I emphasized it for you.
Have a good one.

There was a "large miner" on reddit who claimed to be sticking with ghash.io as well. It is not just you.

I actually do have selective reading. Learned this when my mom told me about a want-ad in the classified section of the newspaper. I missed it because it was ¼ page, instead of postage-stamp size. Over the years I had started reading fine-print first, and ignoring 72pt fonts.

[Yakamoto]

Ok if ANYONE does their own research they'd see that GHash.io is now hovering at around 40%, NOT the 51% everyone is claiming.

I'm actually going to start linking people to the pie charts if I keep seeing this stupidity. It's not funny anymore. Do something by yourself instead of having it fed to you by people on the forum.

GHash.io has been dropping for the past few days. I think everything's is kind of getting resolved.

You should follow your own advice and do some research yourself.

Look at this before you make assumptions

Good to know you were spoon fed too.

Are you serious?

Ok then you tell me where this hyper-accurate chart is.

It was unnecessary to say "Good to know you where spoon fed too" but the concept is the same. The chart even shows decreases over the past few days.

Bro, the post just above this one (yours) says that I have some of my miners pointed at GHash, call it selfish or whatever I don't give a fuck anymore bcoz people are just too blind to see a few things that are so fucking obvious.
That being said, I am not neither with or against GHash, I am against the fact that the core dev team allowed this to happen.

I will leave it at that so I can respond to the post above this one.
Have a good one.

I'm not sure what you said, but do you mean you're not happy with the people not looking at the charts, or are you angry with me?

I don't care that you have miners in GHash or anywhere else, I'm just saying that I'm sick of people claiming "Oh GHash is at 49%" or whatever when they're much lower.

I'm sorry if I responded poorly, but it didn't seem that you were approving of my statement.

Due to the fact that GHash is below 45%, congrats on having miners there! More profit for you.

[S4VV4S]

Philip and Yakamoto
Your problem is not with me, it's with the way the protocol works right now.

So pls don't take it on me.
It is NOT my fault that the ones responsible failed to make sure that the protocol is secure.
The fact that I have 4 of my 12 Ants pointed at GHash doesn't make me selfish.
It just makes me a smart investor (in my point of view) since I would like to have my investment back.
I am not expecting to make ANY profit out of it because apparently BTC is more centralized than you (and I) think.

If you want to keep this going, go ahead.
Give it all you got.
That will not change the fact that it IS NOT GHash's fault NOR MINE, it's the ones who are responsible for making sure the network is secure.
Apparently it's not.

EDIT: That being said, BTC is centralized because we DEPEND on them.

 

[Yakamoto]

Philip and Yakamoto
Your problem is not with me, it's with the way the protocol works right now.

So pls don't take it on me.
It is NOT my fault that the ones responsible failed to make sure that the protocol is secure.
The fact that I have 4 of my 12 Ants pointed at GHash doesn't make me selfish.
It just makes me a smart investor (in my point of view) since I would like to have my investment back.
I am not expecting to make ANY profit out of it because apparently BTC is more centralized than you (and I) think.

If you want to keep this going, go ahead.
Give it all you got.
That will not change the fact that it IS NOT GHash's fault NOR MINE, it's the ones who are responsible for making sure the network is secure.
Apparently it's not.

 

I realize that it's not your fault. Dude! If it was your fault, you'd need WAAAY more. It's not your fault or GHash's. You guys are just trying to make money!

I'm just trying to point out that people aren't looking up the rates, and as such, there's been unnecessary hype and dooms-saying about the size of GHash.

You're not selfish man! It's that you like the pool and you're using it to your advantage.

I apologize if I made you feel like it was your fault. It's not! Don't worry, I'm just getting a little excited.

Than you for explaining your side

[bananas]

it is not been descentralized for a very long time, it been an oligopoly for years

[pandaisftw]

Bottom line:  how many people have been the victim of a double spend?  I am not sure a case of a successful double spend exists post march 2013 fork.  BTC is still better than fiat.

Actually, I saw 5 double spends yesterday, each roughly 6 blocks apart. Right now, there is one double spend within the last 500k transactions: https://blockchain.info/double-spends

No one cares if double spends happen to small transactions... but shit will hit the fan when a large transaction is double spent.

[Lauda]

Mining is a bit centralized but that is the problem within the miners itself. They could have moved their miners to other pools and stay there.
Overall Bitcoin remains decentralized.