Which stock securities do you recommend ?

[Tom822]

Hello Bitcoin community

I would like to get some advice from you as an experience community of bitcoin. If I would like to sell some shares of my website business could you tell me which security stock do you recommend ?
However, I am looking for a stock which will approve this kind of website http://imfuckingit.com/  any idea ? I heard about Cryptostock but I have no idea if it's a good choice.

Moroever, I would like to ask you what do you think about my initiative ?
For now, the website have around 6000-7000 daily visits, 50% of them come from U.S., 7% come from Canada, 6% come from UK, 4% from Germany so, it's really valuable traffic. I am looking for IPO because I would like to develop it to live cams site.

[1713564916]

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[1713564916]

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[1713564916]

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[1713564916]

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[1713564916]

1713564916

[Another User]

Want sound advice?

DON'T INVEST IN BITCOIN "STOCKS"

Know that should you decide to invest in any Bitcoin stocks, go in knowing that you will not get your BTC back. Out of all investments here, almost all were scams and failures. There's maybe two or three "investments" that sound legitimate, even then know that losing all your BTC is the most likely outcome.

1) ASICMiner: They've paid out 5x their IPO BUT it's been a dry spell for more than 6 months, with overwhelming competition along the way. Even AM Bulls are unsure.
2) SatoshiDice: It's sad that this is #2 but this had an ROI w/ IPO investors but burned all who bought in on the bubble; owner got pwned by SEC
3) None: That's how short the list is.

You want to make BTC? SAVE IT. Honestly, the old adage of "BTC saved is BTC earned" (modified but still applies) is your BEST investment. If someone offers you a "one-in-a-lifetime" opportunity, ignore them. By just holding your BTC, you will have a better rate of 0% gain when compared to almost all other "investors" with their losses.

If you still want to jump in the mud, I will repeat again: Go in knowing that you will lose your BTC. If you're ok with that, then read up because that's the only way you can minimize your losses.

[GT3000]

I can only speak for myself but the securities that have made me money are the ones run by Branny, and ABitInterested. Branny runs RENT or Rental Starter on Havelock and ABI runs XXXProfit (XXX streaming site) and ApplianceStore (Used/New Appliance sale, salvage, and part warehouse) done through the forums.

[NotLambchop]

@Tom822:  Lurk moar.
@Everyone else:  He's not looking for stock recommendations.  He "would like to sell some shares of my website business," his website, and thinks an exchange is called "stock."  Language/culture/species barrier.

[GT3000]

Ah, that makes a bit more sense.

Havelock Investments, OP.

[AcoinL.L.C]

Ah, that makes a bit more sense.

Havelock Investments, OP.

Not sure they would let a porn site on. Cryptostocks likely would

[railzand]

The only honest stock exchange is called MPex

edit: such derp, it's spelled MPEx

[AcoinL.L.C]

The only honest stock exchange is called MPex

^^MPex --> fake volume, site operator is dishonest and in SEC's crosshairs. Would avoid.

[pummle]

The only honest stock exchange is called MPex

I agree.

Mircea Popescue seems to like porn, if your business is sound and you know what you are doing, then listing there would be a good way to get funding.

For anybody from #bitcoin-assets, I am the new PeterL forum account.

[lynn_402]

The only honest stock exchange is called MPex

^^MPex --> fake volume, site operator is dishonest and in SEC's crosshairs. Would avoid.

+1
You should do some research about the decentralized exchanges, like Peershares and Nxt asset exchange.
Or simply sell them on your own site and distribute dividends yourself.

[AcoinL.L.C]

The only honest stock exchange is called MPex

I agree.

Mircea Popescue seems to like porn, if your business is sound and you know what you are doing, then listing there would be a good way to get funding.

For anybody from #bitcoin-assets, I am the new PeterL forum account.

Please find someone that doesn't have a direct role in the well being of MPex to say they are an "honest" exchange. They are one of the most dishonest exchanges I have ever seen. The volume is so fake is unbearable, its either that or hes just buying and selling his own shares over and over to make it appear like theres more volume 

When Mircea Popescue gets arrested and MPex shuts down, you will be happy you didn't "invest" in their shitole. All he does currently is spams other exchanges and securities through his several usernames (Such as NotLambChop)

[ABitInterested]

I can only speak for myself but the securities that have made me money are the ones run by Branny, and ABitInterested. Branny runs RENT or Rental Starter on Havelock and ABI runs XXXProfit (XXX streaming site) and ApplianceStore (Used/New Appliance sale, salvage, and part warehouse) done through the forums.

Thanks for the mention. Someone above you claimed only two that haven't run off with money which is crap.

[NotLambchop]

...
When Mircea Popescue gets arrested and MPex shuts down, you will be happy you didn't "invest" in their shitole. All he does currently is spams other exchanges and securities through his several usernames (Such as NotLambChop)

R U StuartUK/minerpart/ or zumzero/fannybaws?  So hard to tell you apart when you're not fighting with yourself
No matter, the prescription's the same!

UR only option: Better living through chemistry.

Stuartuk:

Idée fixe?

Thorazine. "We got a drug for that^TM
...

[Another User]

I can only speak for myself but the securities that have made me money are the ones run by Branny, and ABitInterested. Branny runs RENT or Rental Starter on Havelock and ABI runs XXXProfit (XXX streaming site) and ApplianceStore (Used/New Appliance sale, salvage, and part warehouse) done through the forums.

Thanks for the mention. Someone above you claimed only two that haven't run off with money which is crap.

That isn't crap, that's based on the actions of previous securities here. There's no denying the efforts of both you or Branny. The same could've of been said for CreativeX, Garr255, Deprived, and so many others. They stuck with it when it was managable but when shit hit the fan, they ran. There aren't rules and regulations here, only word of mouth. When your IPO investors get their ROI (from div payments, not selling from the bubble) and then some, I'll happily admit that I was wrong. Until then, my point still stands.

[AcoinL.L.C]

I can only speak for myself but the securities that have made me money are the ones run by Branny, and ABitInterested. Branny runs RENT or Rental Starter on Havelock and ABI runs XXXProfit (XXX streaming site) and ApplianceStore (Used/New Appliance sale, salvage, and part warehouse) done through the forums.

Thanks for the mention. Someone above you claimed only two that haven't run off with money which is crap.

That isn't crap, that's based on the actions of previous securities here. There's no denying the efforts of both you or Branny. The same could've of been said for CreativeX, Garr255, Deprived, and so many others. They stuck with it when it was managable but when shit hit the fan, they ran. There aren't rules and regulations here, only word of mouth. When your IPO investors get their ROI (from div payments, not selling from the bubble) and then some, I'll happily admit that I was wrong. Until then, my point still stands.

ABitInterested's investors in his XXX site have already made more than their ROI in dividends, and Im invested in his ApplianceStore and have received over 25% of my investment back so far in dividends. RENT currently has ~25% more value in holdings than its current list price, it would be pretty difficult for shit to hit the fan considering that RENT owns several properties, and if one of them were to have a fire (unlikely scenario) RENT would still have more value in holdings than its current list price.

I think RENT is the safest investment in cryptoworld currently

[theMiracle]

...RENT currently has ~25% more value in holdings than its current list price, it would be pretty difficult for shit to hit the fan considering that RENT owns several properties, and if one of them were to have a fire (unlikely scenario) RENT would still have more value in holdings than its current list price.

I think RENT is the safest investment in cryptoworld currently

RENT is currently trading @.0045, that's .001 lower than its first IPO price of .0055, and .003 lower than its SECOND IPO price.  All this while Branny is trying to solicit loans @loanshark interest rates.  With no one biting.

TL;DR:  If the best investment sux, don't invest.  Simple

[AcoinL.L.C]

...RENT currently has ~25% more value in holdings than its current list price, it would be pretty difficult for shit to hit the fan considering that RENT owns several properties, and if one of them were to have a fire (unlikely scenario) RENT would still have more value in holdings than its current list price.

I think RENT is the safest investment in cryptoworld currently

RENT is currently trading @.0045, that's .001 lower than its first IPO price of .0055, and .003 lower than its SECOND IPO price.  All this while Branny is trying to solicit loans @loanshark interest rates.  With no one biting.

TL;DR:  If the best investment sux, don't invest.  Simple

USD value has risen since IPO, if they raised say 100BTC at IPO when BTC was $100, and BTC goes to $1000 over several months, that doesn't make the business worth 10x as much, what it means is that the business is now worth 10BTC (assuming it hasn't gained / lost any value along the way)

RENT is an excellent hedge against the price of BTC

[NotLambchop]

^Interesting idea you got there, though facts don't support it.  BTC price actually fell since the first IPO.  If RENT worked as a hedge, share price should be higher.  

But wait!  That's not all!!  You'll also receive five paring knives exciting third-party risks!  RENT could fold and Havelock could fold, leaving you sad and unhedged

Wanna hedge your Bitcoin bet?  Invest in teh $, which has historically maintained perfect $ parity

[AcoinL.L.C]

^Interesting idea you got there, though facts don't support it.  BTC price actually fell since the first IPO.  If RENT worked as a hedge, share price should be higher.  

But wait!  That's not all!!  You'll also receive five paring knives exciting third-party risks!  RENT could fold and Havelock could fold, leaving you sad and unhedged

Wanna hedge your Bitcoin bet?  Invest in teh $, which has historically maintained perfect $ parity

Announcement   Start Date/Time   End Date/Time   Status   Units   Remaining   Max/User   Price/Unit   
2014-03-28   2014-03-31 12:00   2014-04-30 12:00   closed   50000   26900   50000   ฿0.00750000   
2014-02-05   2014-02-07 13:00   2014-03-07 13:00   closed   78534   0   78534   ฿0.00550000   

My bad, it was roughly the same price, price range was ~$630 - $520 during the period of its 2 IPO's. Either way its a good value, current market cap is ~444k, whereas they have over 600k in assets / cash. I would also be willing to bet a pretty penny they don't fold. If Havelock goes into financial distress they have investors emails / information (at least I believe so, I know cryptostocks does this), and theres always risk using a 3rd party, regardless of who it is. I think the risk is small enough to invest on their platform, as do many others

[andyfletcher]

^Interesting idea you got there, though facts don't support it.  BTC price actually fell since the first IPO.  If RENT worked as a hedge, share price should be higher.  
But wait!  That's not all!!  You'll also receive five paring knives exciting third-party risks!  RENT could fold and Havelock could fold, leaving you sad and unhedged
Wanna hedge your Bitcoin bet?  Invest in teh $, which has historically maintained perfect $ parity

By the same token MPEX could fold, I really don't see your point unless there is some cloud of magic surrounding the few listings on MPEX which prevents them ever going wrong.

The unusual thing about RentalStarter is it is a listing based on the ownership and rental of physical property which will retain value (as defined in USD). The issuer has been very open about the project and a creditable history in the industry making it hard for him to cut and run without being chased by litigants. You don't normally throw away a reputation build up over many years lightly.

This listing uses BTC as a method of transferring value, buying BTC for USD and distributing it out as payments each month. This is what BTC is good at as there are no bank charges involved.

Yes, exchanges collapse, BitFunder is a good example but the listings simply moved to another.

Regarding the price of RentalStarter, the volume is very low at the moment as people flock to the next high risk mining share for huge payouts, RentalStarter is paying reasonable returns for a bricks and mortar business in the startup phase. I am however surprised at the low share valuation at the moment which is significantly below the breakup value of the business which makes it a good and relatively secure investment in the hybrid BTC/USD world.

We disagree, you are entitled to your view, however childish insults don't help and just lower your reputation.

Andy

[NotLambchop]

^Interesting idea you got there, though facts don't support it.  BTC price actually fell since the first IPO.  If RENT worked as a hedge, share price should be higher.  
But wait!  That's not all!!  You'll also receive five paring knives exciting third-party risks!  RENT could fold and Havelock could fold, leaving you sad and unhedged
Wanna hedge your Bitcoin bet?  Invest in teh $, which has historically maintained perfect $ parity

By the same token MPEX could fold, I really don't see your point unless there is some cloud of magic surrounding the few listings on MPEX which prevents them ever going wrong.

The unusual thing about RentalStarter is it is a listing based on the ownership and rental of physical property which will retain value (as defined in USD). The issuer has been very open about the project and a creditable history in the industry making it hard for him to cut and run without being chased by litigants. You don't normally throw away a reputation build up over many years lightly.

This listing uses BTC as a method of transferring value, buying BTC for USD and distributing it out as payments each month. This is what BTC is good at as there are no bank charges involved.

Yes, exchanges collapse, BitFunder is a good example but the listings simply moved to another.

Regarding the price of RentalStarter, the volume is very low at the moment as people flock to the next high risk mining share for huge payouts, RentalStarter is paying reasonable returns for a bricks and mortar business in the startup phase. I am however surprised at the low share valuation at the moment which is significantly below the breakup value of the business which makes it a good and relatively secure investment in the hybrid BTC/USD world.

We disagree, you are entitled to your view, however childish insults don't help and just lower your reputation.

Andy

Hi Andy.  Let me address your concerns serally:

Though your point re. MPEx is thought-provoking, its relevance to our conversation is minimal.  If you feel I've suggested you giving your milk money to MPEx, I must assure you the fault lies entirely with your interpretive abilities.

Re. "ownership of real assets":  Who owns these real assets?  I believe the claim is "Full Power Asia Investment LTD," of which I know absolutely nothing other than (Hong Kong, as I remember?) registration.  What do you plan to do, for instance, if Full Power Asia Investment LTD stops posting on this forum through the Branny pen name?

Re. Branny's openness and industry experience:  I don't seem to recall Mr. Branny's record of employment (excluding, of course, Full Power Asia Investment LTD).  Or... his full name, for that matter.  Fill me in here.  

Mr. Kenneth Slaughter of Active Mining (whose name is as well known as that of NEOBEE's Danny Brewster) is a top-notch EE and a successful businessman, as I was told repeatedly by teh indignant Active Miners.
Now his "shares" are trading @0.000003, approximately 1/800th (not a typo) of the issue price.

Re. "Yes, exchanges collapse":  Finally we agree.  GLBSE, BTCT, BitFunder are just a few recent examples.
But we don't agree on some of the finer details.  Though the scope of the term "collapse" is arguably wide enough to include exchange owners saying OKTHXBI! as the savvy investment enthusiasts hold their dicks, I feel this contingency is worth stressing to our younger financiers.
That's called "third-party risk."

Re. Price:  The volume is low because Bitcoin is continuously moving to smarter hands.  The ones who "trade" and provide liquidity have been impoverished by their previous "investments," and thus are unable to provide liquidity.
TL;DR:  Greater fools have lost their coin, pool's closed.

Re. "relatively secure investment in the hybrid BTC/USD world":  ~Happy investing!

[RiverBoatBTC]

Branny is not hard to find, property ownership is a easy to track down. But I do agree, if something goes wrong only legal recourse anyone has is to go after a shell corp. Good luck with that one lol

[NotLambchop]

^
For what it's worth, I was a bit confused by RENT.
Until the second IPO.

[andreasan]

Hello Bitcoin community

I would like to get some advice from you as an experience community of bitcoin. If I would like to sell some shares of my website business could you tell me which security stock do you recommend ?
However, I am looking for a stock which will approve this kind of website http://imfuckingit.com/  any idea ? I heard about Cryptostock but I have no idea if it's a good choice.

Moroever, I would like to ask you what do you think about my initiative ?
For now, the website have around 6000-7000 daily visits, 50% of them come from U.S., 7% come from Canada, 6% come from UK, 4% from Germany so, it's really valuable traffic. I am looking for IPO because I would like to develop it to live cams site.

Bitcoin securities are a grey area. But after U.S authorities stepped in and gave Erik Voorhees a slap on the wrist (when they could have otherwise made an example of him) everyone got back to it. At the end of the day it's a convenient way for small businesses and start-ups to get much needed funding in a frictionless manner. Bitcoiners who invest in these securities have received some expensive lessons. We hope that as a result we will be seeing less scammers and incompetent folk getting funded and more legitimate opportunities.

If your pr0nsite is profitable and you can report on past financial performance and need the money to scale somehow (with a business plan to support it) then it may be a good idea. Rental Starter is a good example of a decent performing security in Bitcoinland and like you, Branny's business is unrelated to the crypto field.

From the current centralized exchanges I would go with Havelock. If you can pass their background check then it means a little bit more to investors than other solutions. The problem with the centralized exchanges in the space is that they themselves are quite vulnerable. If you have the energy/capacity you may want tot look into "Bitcoin 2.0" technologies and decenetralized exchanges.

[RiverBoatBTC]

Please do not portray havelock like they do anything more then take paper work on a person. They do a bare min to vet a security. Havelock may be a more stable platform though.

[AcoinL.L.C]

^Interesting idea you got there, though facts don't support it.  BTC price actually fell since the first IPO.  If RENT worked as a hedge, share price should be higher.  
But wait!  That's not all!!  You'll also receive five paring knives exciting third-party risks!  RENT could fold and Havelock could fold, leaving you sad and unhedged
Wanna hedge your Bitcoin bet?  Invest in teh $, which has historically maintained perfect $ parity

By the same token MPEX could fold, I really don't see your point unless there is some cloud of magic surrounding the few listings on MPEX which prevents them ever going wrong.

The unusual thing about RentalStarter is it is a listing based on the ownership and rental of physical property which will retain value (as defined in USD). The issuer has been very open about the project and a creditable history in the industry making it hard for him to cut and run without being chased by litigants. You don't normally throw away a reputation build up over many years lightly.

This listing uses BTC as a method of transferring value, buying BTC for USD and distributing it out as payments each month. This is what BTC is good at as there are no bank charges involved.

Yes, exchanges collapse, BitFunder is a good example but the listings simply moved to another.

Regarding the price of RentalStarter, the volume is very low at the moment as people flock to the next high risk mining share for huge payouts, RentalStarter is paying reasonable returns for a bricks and mortar business in the startup phase. I am however surprised at the low share valuation at the moment which is significantly below the breakup value of the business which makes it a good and relatively secure investment in the hybrid BTC/USD world.

We disagree, you are entitled to your view, however childish insults don't help and just lower your reputation.

Andy

Hi Andy.  Let me address your concerns serally:

Though your point re. MPEx is thought-provoking, its relevance to our conversation is minimal.  If you feel I've suggested you giving your milk money to MPEx, I must assure you the fault lies entirely with your interpretive abilities.

Re. "ownership of real assets":  Who owns these real assets?  I believe the claim is "Full Power Asia Investment LTD," of which I know absolutely nothing other than (Hong Kong, as I remember?) registration.  What do you plan to do, for instance, if Full Power Asia Investment LTD stops posting on this forum through the Branny pen name?

Re. Branny's openness and industry experience:  I don't seem to recall Mr. Branny's record of employment (excluding, of course, Full Power Asia Investment LTD).  Or... his full name, for that matter.  Fill me in here.  

Mr. Kenneth Slaughter of Active Mining (whose name is as well known as that of NEOBEE's Danny Brewster) is a top-notch EE and a successful businessman, as I was told repeatedly by teh indignant Active Miners.
Now his "shares" are trading @0.000003, approximately 1/800th (not a typo) of the issue price.

Re. "Yes, exchanges collapse":  Finally we agree.  GLBSE, BTCT, BitFunder are just a few recent examples.
But we don't agree on some of the finer details.  Though the scope of the term "collapse" is arguably wide enough to include exchange owners saying OKTHXBI! as the savvy investment enthusiasts hold their dicks, I feel this contingency is worth stressing to our younger financiers.
That's called "third-party risk."

Re. Price:  The volume is low because Bitcoin is continuously moving to smarter hands.  The ones who "trade" and provide liquidity have been impoverished by their previous "investments," and thus are unable to provide liquidity.
TL;DR:  Greater fools have lost their coin, pool's closed.

Re. "relatively secure investment in the hybrid BTC/USD world":  ~Happy investing!

Your points are like saying the sky is blue. There is risk to every investment. Look at MF Global. It doesn't matter who you invest in, or where, there is always a risk. Im willing to risk my BTC that Branny will be an honest operator.

The issue with the examples you gave, Neo & Bee and ActiveMining, are that those were never good investments in the first place. For some reason people throw money at "investment" IPO's just because its in BTC and not USD. And I think your trolling a bit, I was using the word collapse in the sense of general failure. The majority of exchanges have collapsed in the sense that their operators were scammers.

[NotLambchop]

...I was using the word collapse in the sense of general failure...

You're using the wrong account, andyfletcher

...
R U StuartUK/minerpart/ or zumzero/fannybaws?  So hard to tell you apart when you're not fighting with yourself
...

[andyfletcher]

You're using the wrong account, andyfletcher

Not me mate, I'm happy with only a single identity, anyone who wants to can easily find me online.

Who are you and how many different online identities do you have or have used?

Andy

[NotLambchop]

Don't fret, andyfletcher, I have no interest in your identity.  I merely suggested that AcoinL.L.C is you, not that you are AcoinL.L.C.  
If that is not the case, AcoinL.L.C's referring to your typings as his, and going on to elucidate the intended meaning behind your verbiage implies a frightening break with what the mundanes call "reality."

...I was using the word collapse in the sense of general failure...

Re. my identity:  I am NotLambchop, AKA ~Lambchop && !Lambchop.
Though certain scholars have posited the NotLambchop is but an earthly manifestation of TheLamb AKA TheMIracleRisen, such hopeful assertions are mainly fueled by teh popular press, given little serious consideration by conservative mainstream academia.



"Happy investing.  Next time pay attention! "--Cassandra

[andyfletcher]

Re. my identity:  I am NotLambchop, AKA ~Lambchop && !Lambchop.
Though certain scholars have posited the NotLambchop is but an earthly manifestation of TheLamb AKA TheMIracleRisen, such hopeful assertions are mainly fueled by teh popular press, given little serious consideration by conservative mainstream academia.

In other words you are staying anonymous and continuing to troll.

Go and get a real life and stop wasting my time.

[NotLambchop]

@andyfletcher:  Stop socking or get good. 

[AcoinL.L.C]

Don't fret, andyfletcher, I have no interest in your identity.  I merely suggested that AcoinL.L.C is you, not that you are AcoinL.L.C.  
If that is not the case, AcoinL.L.C's referring to your typings as his, and going on to elucidate the intended meaning behind your verbiage implies a frightening break with what the mundanes call "reality."

...I was using the word collapse in the sense of general failure...

Re. my identity:  I am NotLambchop, AKA ~Lambchop && !Lambchop.
Though certain scholars have posited the NotLambchop is but an earthly manifestation of TheLamb AKA TheMIracleRisen, such hopeful assertions are mainly fueled by teh popular press, given little serious consideration by conservative mainstream academia.



"Happy investing.  Next time pay attention! "--Cassandra

I am most definitely not andyfletcher, and its fairly easy to prove. My name is Matthew to start off as
Not everyone feels the need to troll

[NotLambchop]

^Easy, huh?  Then do it.  Matthew.

[AcoinL.L.C]

^Easy, huh?  Then do it.  Matthew.

Ask a mod about our IP addresses

Im done feeding this troll

[NotLambchop]

^
Mods don't have access to IPs.
Even if they did, they would not disclose them.
Even if they did disclose them, there are fancy intertube novelties like proxies and Tor.

If it's easy to prove your identity, do it or stfu.
Stop your muppetry or at least get good, AcoinL.L.C.

[andyfletcher]

If it's easy to prove your identity, do it or stfu.
Stop your muppetry or at least get good, AcoinL.L.C.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Proof of identity is easy. Check the signatures.

Your turn now or to use your own phrase STFU


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iEYEARECAAYFAlOnP3YACgkQUCQJ5ndn48bgIACgget6ojJCvutu+V0zD5OM8Dus
J+kAn2cFV9KXBDQQDdZaIgJlMikbwhsM
=7QSE
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[NotLambchop]

Andy, why such bile?  As I've mentioned, I couldn't care less about your IRL identity.  I merely asked MR. AcoinL.L.C to prove he's not you.
Me and you--we're good

Don't fret, andyfletcher, I have no interest in your identity.  I merely suggested that AcoinL.L.C is you, not that you are AcoinL.L.C.   ...
"Happy investing.  Next time pay attention! "--Cassandra

[ABitInterested]

I can only speak for myself but the securities that have made me money are the ones run by Branny, and ABitInterested. Branny runs RENT or Rental Starter on Havelock and ABI runs XXXProfit (XXX streaming site) and ApplianceStore (Used/New Appliance sale, salvage, and part warehouse) done through the forums.

Thanks for the mention. Someone above you claimed only two that haven't run off with money which is crap.

That isn't crap, that's based on the actions of previous securities here. There's no denying the efforts of both you or Branny. The same could've of been said for CreativeX, Garr255, Deprived, and so many others. They stuck with it when it was managable but when shit hit the fan, they ran. There aren't rules and regulations here, only word of mouth. When your IPO investors get their ROI (from div payments, not selling from the bubble) and then some, I'll happily admit that I was wrong. Until then, my point still stands.

What I said was crap was that only two people didn't run off with the money, I hope I'm accurate on that one.

Can't speak for the others but since both offers I have on here are fiat based I'm in a little different boat. The value of BTC has no bearing on either business so worst case is it takes longer to get partners to break even. I also front load returns of capital contributions to mitigate this risk. If BTC is $10,000 when I wake up tomorrow business will go on.