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Author Topic: Bitmark  (Read 600783 times)
coinsolidation
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July 16, 2014, 07:43:51 PM
 #501

The problem I see with waiting, is what happens if an exchange begins trading bitmark and then turns out to be a bad player?

This is also my concern, we should recognise that exchanges and mining pools will often be the first point of contact people have with Bitmark, in a way they are part of our public face.

If they are incompetent or a bad player it will reflect badly on the efforts of all of us, the first place people will come to complain is here.

It is responsible for us to consider our future users best interests, whilst remaining as neutral as possible.

Due Diligence.

We should also remember that mining pools and exchanges are also Bitmark adopters, to be in communication with them and consider their needs will help. We may need to change some code, or ensure that checkpoints are created regularly, or other steps.

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Androidicus
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July 16, 2014, 07:51:34 PM
 #502

Difficult to contribute as AFK and on phone...

Just did some numbers on last 24 hours and cost of the BTM earned equated to 454 Sat / BTM
 
That's loss of direct BTC that would have been earned plus fairly low power costs.

Take from that what you will...

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July 16, 2014, 07:52:31 PM
 #503

The problem I see with waiting, is what happens if an exchange begins trading bitmark and then turns out to be a bad player?

This is also my concern, we should recognise that exchanges and mining pools will often be the first point of contact people have with Bitmark, in a way they are part of our public face.

If they are incompetent or a bad player it will reflect badly on the efforts of all of us, the first place people will come to complain is here.

It is responsible for us to consider our future users best interests, whilst remaining as neutral as possible.

Due Diligence.

We should also remember that mining pools and exchanges are also Bitmark adopters, to be in communication with them and consider their needs will help. We may need to change some code, or ensure that checkpoints are created regularly, or other steps.

I was considering reaching out to a pool operator as well. Right now most of the network is mining on one pool, which is dangerous.

But I had another thought instead. What if the bitmark foundation ran its own pool? Mining fees go straight into the foundation fund to support the pool and the project as a whole. I'm not a pool operator and honestly I don't even know what it would take to set one up, but maybe there is a member already here who knows how to do this?

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination"  -Albert Einstein
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July 16, 2014, 07:54:36 PM
 #504

The problem I see with waiting, is what happens if an exchange begins trading bitmark and then turns out to be a bad player?

This is also my concern, we should recognise that exchanges and mining pools will often be the first point of contact people have with Bitmark, in a way they are part of our public face.

If they are incompetent or a bad player it will reflect badly on the efforts of all of us, the first place people will come to complain is here.

It is responsible for us to consider our future users best interests, whilst remaining as neutral as possible.

Due Diligence.

We should also remember that mining pools and exchanges are also Bitmark adopters, to be in communication with them and consider their needs will help. We may need to change some code, or ensure that checkpoints are created regularly, or other steps.

I was considering reaching out to a pool operator as well. Right now most of the network is mining on one pool, which is dangerous.

But I had another thought instead. What if the bitmark foundation ran its own pool? Mining fees go straight into the foundation fund to support the pool and the project as a whole. I'm not a pool operator and honestly I don't even know what it would take to set one up, but maybe there is a member already here who knows how to do this?

the best idea I have heard all day.  +10

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coinsolidation
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July 16, 2014, 07:56:22 PM
 #505

What if the bitmark foundation ran its own pool? Mining fees go straight into the foundation fund to support the pool and the project as a whole.

the best idea I have heard all day.  +10

Our proposal for an Investor Public Mining (IPM) Pool.

Currently in development, the model can be applied to any currency.

I would be very happy to hear any feedback you have about this.

Bitmark (reputation+money) : Bitmark v0.9.4 (release)
deepcoreotc
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July 16, 2014, 08:09:01 PM
 #506

Btw, I should make aware the community this fact, I get emails all the time requesting me to accept this coin or that coin.  My standard reply is this.   I share this to show you that I have consistency with my point of view.
 


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Androidicus
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July 16, 2014, 08:09:35 PM
 #507

What if the bitmark foundation ran its own pool? Mining fees go straight into the foundation fund to support the pool and the project as a whole.

the best idea I have heard all day.  +10

Our proposal for an Investor Public Mining (IPM) Pool.

Currently in development, the model can be applied to any currency.

I would be very happy to hear any feedback you have about this.

But this will take BTC > Mining? Simple enough / in scope of aims to have open stratum port for public mining?

Man this is too difficult on phone..!

Failure is success waiting to happen...
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July 16, 2014, 08:16:05 PM
 #508

What if the bitmark foundation ran its own pool? Mining fees go straight into the foundation fund to support the pool and the project as a whole.

the best idea I have heard all day.  +10

Keep up guys...

Our proposal for an Investor Public Mining (IPM) Pool.

Currently in development, the model can be applied to any currency.

I would be very happy to hear any feedback you have about this.

I think its a good idea, but my question is how will the IPM guarantee a hash rate close to 35%?

What if a few months into the launch of the IPM somebody recognizes the value of bitmark and throws a few th/s at the network?

Also how will payouts be handled? if I send the IPM 1 BTC for example, I can expect 95% of the investment back in the form of BTM correct? Is that paid out immediately or over time like the actual mining process? I can see benefits for both methods. Instant payouts will significantly strengthen the IPM's hash rate because people will get an instant return on their BTM, like an exchange. This will cause more people to donate to the IPM rather than mine themselves. Payouts over time are safer because they prevent a "bank run" type situation where there is not enough BTM in the fund to instantly pay out for all the donations. In this case the pool mines and pays out to the investors as coins are minted.

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July 16, 2014, 08:39:51 PM
 #509

But this will take BTC > Mining? Simple enough / in scope of aims to have open stratum port for public mining?

BTC in, BTM out, but with the benefits listed.

We cannot have an open stratum port as this could push the pool over 35% of the network hashrate.

A second foundation mining pool could be created for miners, with the same cap of 35%, but somebody else would need to manage it. Otherwise I personally would be responsible for too much hash power.

In the interests of security and decentralization we should have more pools, managed by different entities, with a lower hash rate on each.

This is discussed more here

I think its a good idea, but my question is how will the IPM guarantee a hash rate close to 35%?

What if a few months into the launch of the IPM somebody recognizes the value of bitmark and throws a few th/s at the network?

Also how will payouts be handled? if I send the IPM 1 BTC for example, I can expect 95% of the investment back in the form of BTM correct?

Is that paid out immediately or over time like the actual mining process?

The IPM Pool has a cap on the hashrate, it's real hashrate can be from 0-35% depending on investments sent.

The IPM Pools hashrate is calculated as 35% of the target-network-hashrate according to difficulty every time it changes.
Is somebody throws a few th/s, then the difficulty goes up on the network, the IPM pool has a target of 35% of the target-network-hashrate and the investments to reach 35% are higher.
Because the IPM Pool's hashrate is variable and percentage based it can mitigate against attacks when the difficulty goes up.
If the th/s then leaves the network the IPM Pool cushions the drop in difficulty.
This only works if the IPM Pool has enough queued investments purchase the hashrate required to reach 35%.
Socially, investors help miners to stabilize the network in times of need, this strengthens their investment and reflects well to users who experience a more consistent average block time even when bad actors join or leave the network.

BTM payouts are calculated every time the difficulty changes (720 blocks, or 1 day) and the next lot of investments start.
Bitmark requires a block reward maturity of 721, so payouts would be in full the following day.

For the IPM Pool payouts are simple to calculate, the total number of BTM minted - 5%, divided proportionately between the investments that were active during that round of 720 blocks.

Bitmark (reputation+money) : Bitmark v0.9.4 (release)
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July 16, 2014, 08:40:22 PM
 #510

What if the bitmark foundation ran its own pool? Mining fees go straight into the foundation fund to support the pool and the project as a whole.

the best idea I have heard all day.  +10

Our proposal for an Investor Public Mining (IPM) Pool.

Currently in development, the model can be applied to any currency.

I would be very happy to hear any feedback you have about this.

Also, to bring this back to exchanges...how will the IPM determine what 95% of your bitcoin donation is in Bitmark? Without an exchange to set the price there is no simple answer.

Unless the answer is to take 95% of your donation, rent a specific amount of hash power based on the amount donated, and pay out whatever the rental mines during the lease. In this scenario the 95% guarantee is on how much the IPM invests on your behalf, not a guarantee on how much you get back.

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July 16, 2014, 08:46:12 PM
 #511


Also, to bring this back to exchanges...how will the IPM determine what 95% of your bitcoin donation is in Bitmark? Without an exchange to set the price there is no simple answer

There is a simple answer. Production cost.

How is the IPM Pool maximum hashrate calculated?
How much does 35% of the network hashrate cost the IPM Pool to produce? see the table for a list of example prices in $ based on the current average hired mining rig cost per MH/s.

The effective BTM price for investors using the IPM pool is therefore +5% on "Production Cost of 1 BTM" correlating to the difficulty at the time their investment is active.

I should create an example section for potential investors.

Bitmark (reputation+money) : Bitmark v0.9.4 (release)
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July 16, 2014, 08:57:54 PM
 #512

Quote
We cannot have an open stratum port as this could push the pool over 35% of the network hashrate.

Of course - that was nagging me as I posted... Doh  Smiley

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July 16, 2014, 09:07:57 PM
 #513

Mark,
On Github IPM doc:

Quote
1,2,3 correlating to 20, 20 and 5 BTM respectively.

Is 20, 20 and 5 correct or s/b 20, 15 and 5?




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July 16, 2014, 09:22:12 PM
 #514

On Github IPM doc:

Quote
1,2,3 correlating to 20, 20 and 5 BTM respectively.

Is 20, 20 and 5 correct or s/b 20, 15 and 5?

Thank you, I have corrected the document, added some navigation, and a new section.

Bitmark (reputation+money) : Bitmark v0.9.4 (release)
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July 16, 2014, 09:42:40 PM
 #515


Most are in agreement that they are in no rush to list Bitmark on an exchange, and if it is listed they are not particularly interested in selling.

It is wise to recognise that when Bitcoin launched there were no exchanges and no pools, and there was little demand, cryptographic currency was new. Bitmark does not belong to that time, it belongs to this time.

With that in mind, we can establish that exchanges exist, and that we will find ourselves on an exchange whether we like it or not, people will speculate, some will buy and some will sell BTM.

Let us also consider that if Bitmark is not seen as being actively engaging the outward community, they will presume a group of people have slowly pre-mined a large amount of Bitmarks before exposing it properly. That would damage our efforts, and we need to be fair to those who are not with us yet.

I mentioned earlier that people are mining with their own hardware and worry about covering their costs, and others are hiring mining rigs because there is no exchange. The two parties could help each other by investors helping to cover the costs of mining then splitting the BTM between them fairly.

If you are already mining in some way then you must accept that you are speculating and hope to acquire some Bitmarks with the expectation their value will rise, you must be inclusive to others who wish to do the same, that is fair.

Let us together identify which are fair reasonable pools and exchanges, for they will be part of our public face.




How about running an exchange through the website, simply wallet addresses listed for those that want to trade Bitmark for BTC? Similar to localbitcoins but just direct wallet to wallet instead of bank account to wallet.

Listing sales levels that are based upon difficulty. the higher the difficulty to mine, the lesser BTM released for BTC.

Maybe a starting rate of say: 500BTM : 1BTC, with the amount of BTM decreasing over time until it is 1:1 or higher.

Keeping it running through direct exchange wallet to wallet without speculation, just buy orders for the days rate, a rate that is created buy the community through linking it to the current difficulty as set by the network hashing speed.


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July 16, 2014, 10:07:10 PM
 #516

if exchanges are listing Bitmark then a clear community sales ethos needs to be added to the agenda, which is important to prevent dumps of many thousands of coins at once and the devaluing of the currency ...

thinking i am on the other side of the world from many others in this thread as finding it hard to keep up. lots to catch up on this morning. thanks for the posts during the night
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July 16, 2014, 10:13:21 PM
 #517

a clear community sales ethos needs to be added to the agenda

We can have no such thing, that is unfair manipulation. We must be fair to community members who are not with us yet, that is in our best interests.

Bitmark will earn it's value fairly and responsibly. The community is healthy at this time, if we focus on earning value many of the social issues like unfair dumping and price fixing will be reduced or alleviated.

What about running an exchange through the website, simply wallet addresses listed for those that want to trade Bitmark for BTC? Similar to localbitcoins but just direct wallet to wallet instead of bank account to wallet.

A localbitmarks service which provided user to user exchanging with escrow would be good to have early on.

This would be a conflict of interests for both the Bitmark Foundation or myself to create or support, and further too centralized.

Anybody is welcome to create this service or any service which utilizes bitmark and offers utility to users. The Bitmark community and myself would surely discuss, test, and use any services created.

There are early adoption incentives for anybody creating fee based services which use Bitmark. A 0.5% fee on a 100 BTM transaction today is a far larger amount of BTM than a fee on 100 Marks in the future.
 
Any such services would add to Bitmarks usefulness to end users and aid adoption, that is our goal.

Bitmark (reputation+money) : Bitmark v0.9.4 (release)
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July 16, 2014, 10:22:08 PM
 #518


Bitmark will earn it's value fairly and responsibly. The community is healthy at this time, if we focus on earning value many of the social issues like unfair dumping and price fixing will be reduced or alleviated.

[/quote]

Like this ethos, thanks for the clarity of this vision.
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July 17, 2014, 03:22:41 AM
 #519

a clear community sales ethos needs to be added to the agenda
We can have no such thing, that is unfair manipulation. We must be fair to community members who are not with us yet, that is in our best interests.

Even if we wanted to dictate what people did with their Bitmarks, it would never happen. People are going to do what they want.

BTC: 15h26g3SUu6iXUi1phv5FHmASc5hDeGHpJ | LSK: 840098997497226041L | CSC: cMsbRGMLzu7Ss8L7Vv6osksUyt5P322uxS
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July 17, 2014, 03:49:56 AM
 #520

@coinsolidation, are there any roadmap/whitepaper of this coin?

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