Bitmark

[Androidicus]

Maybe we need something more like StackExchange, with specific topics and questions tagged and arranged, a clear view of unanswered topics, and the most active or currently being discussed displayed at the top.

You mean the ones that are marked the most at the top?

Lol 

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[Androidicus]

I have reached out to http://www.quandora.com/ as a public version of their solution looks to be exactly what we need, with any luck they will respond to say that they are willing to support us by offering a free instance for a few months in return for being associated with Bitmark, a one off donation of our own currency to thank them, and a well funded foundation to pay all related costs in the future.

Do you think their offering looks to be what we need, and that this was a reasonable request to make?

We will need to raise a BTM donation for them in the future, if they accept, I hope that is not an issue

Yes, a reasonable request! But would an Open Source offering serve a longer term need?

I guess that there is an outreach opportunity however, in having an association with a bigger player...

[coinsolidation]

Ideally open source if we could find such a thing.

Coming back to the topic of a forum, and also getMarked.

I wonder if it is possible to create a self moderating community, where the 'forum' is armed with marks, where the users can mark specific actions to take place, say 'spam' or 'ban user', if they agree the marks are doubled and distributed back to the moderating users, and if they are trying to abuse the system or incorrect they take a tiny hit to their balance of marks.

It would be nice to find a forum, with only one board to start, where topics could be tagged, and which we could customize to have this functionality. It would be fun and a good example of getMarked and our approaches to currency/reputation being one.

This could also boost getMarked and Bitmark adoption, as we would opensource or contribute the change to which ever software we used, and allow users to transfer their marks between each forum, whilst their reputation would follow them around

The same distribution could be achieved with this, where users who join get some marks to use. Each post could cost a mark to start, decreasing over time. Users would then moderate with marks, and get the returned whilst adding to each others reputation, and the spammer would have a financial cost to spamming. Every action taken stakes ones reputation.

Now we have two projects, the forum one first being useful to us, most of it's work is the same so we could produce both at the same time.

[Len]

this could be implemented on a site similar to yahoo answers, where regular contributors can get paid for answering questions or maybe writing articles etc

[Androidicus]

this could be implemented on a site similar to yahoo answers, where regular contributors can get paid for answering questions or maybe writing articles etc

A good example!

[Androidicus]

Ideally open source if we could find such a thing.

Coming back to the topic of a forum, and also getMarked.

I wonder if it is possible to create a self moderating community, where the 'forum' is armed with marks, where the users can mark specific actions to take place, say 'spam' or 'ban user', if they agree the marks are doubled and distributed back to the moderating users, and if they are trying to abuse the system or incorrect they take a tiny hit to their balance of marks.

It would be nice to find a forum, with only one board to start, where topics could be tagged, and which we could customize to have this functionality. It would be fun and a good example of getMarked and our approaches to currency/reputation being one.

This could also boost getMarked and Bitmark adoption, as we would opensource or contribute the change to which ever software we used, and allow users to transfer their marks between each forum, whilst their reputation would follow them around

Apologies - I was mistaken in thinking the quandora offering was about the forum? [Smiley for Doh!]

I did a lot of research for Open Source PHP Forum offerings a while back - it's all at home somewhere - will take a look later...

[coinsolidation]

this could be implemented on a site similar to yahoo answers, where regular contributors can get paid for answering questions or maybe writing articles etc

A good example!

In line with what I later added above... I must stop editing posts, repeated here to keep the flow:

[creation of such a forum] could also boost getMarked and Bitmark adoption, as we would opensource or contribute the change to which ever software we used, and allow users to transfer their marks between each forum, whilst their reputation would follow them around

The same distribution could be achieved with this as with getMarked, where users who join get some marks to use. Each post could cost a mark to start, decreasing over time. Users would then moderate with marks, and get them returned whilst adding to each others reputation, and the spammer would have a financial cost to spamming. Every action taken stakes or gains ones reputation.

As marks are reputation and currency, by answering anything correctly they get marked, which is also payment

Now we have two projects, the forum one first being useful to us, most of it's work is the same so we could produce both at the same time.

Androidicus you were not mistaken, the thread just changed quickly as our ideas came together.

[coinsolidation]

We can give the software a bitmark halving.

The forum acts as a faucet, I will give it 100 BTM, enough for 200 users.

Every user who signs up gets 500 marks (0.5 BTM), each post costs 1 mark which goes back in to the faucet.

Each users post or actions can be marked by other users, this gives them reputation and more marks to give.

When the users reach 50 the reward for joining drops to 375. When it reaches 100 it halves from the original 500 to 250, just as bitmarks block rewards work.

Every time the reward reduces, the cost of each action drops by the same amount.

So the 100 BTM is enough for an almost infinite amount of users, and the more the forum is used, the rarer and more distributed marks get.

For onlookers, 1 Mark is 0.001 BTM, a Mark is also reputation. http://getmarked.org/

[Androidicus]

Androidicus you were not mistaken, the thread just changed quickly as our ideas came together.

Electrons - terrible things 

We can give the software a bitmark halving.

The forum acts as a faucet, I will give it 100 BTM, enough for 200 users.

Every user who signs up gets 500 marks (0.5 BTM), each post costs 1 mark which goes back in to the faucet.

Each users post or actions can be marked by other users, this gives them reputation and more marks to give.

When the users reach 50 the reward for joining drops to 375. When it reaches 100 it halves from the original 500 to 250, just as bitmarks block rewards work.

Every time the reward reduces, the cost of each action drops by the same amount.

So the 100 BTM is enough for an almost infinite amount of users, and the more the forum is used, the rarer and more distributed marks get.

For onlookers, 1 Mark is 0.001 BTM, a Mark is also reputation. http://getmarked.org/

I get it - just got to get my head around the way the numbers work - [myHead + numbers] = [Takes time to sink in]

[coinsolidation]

Users 1-50 get 500 Marks, and a post costs 1 Mark.
They can mark any post or comment they like, giving marks to the other user
To take moderation actions costs 1 Mark, if others agree that your action was good by doing the same, you all get your Marks back and reputation increase. The spammer or bad poster has lost their mark, you now have it distributed between you.

Users 51-100 get 375 Marks, and a post costs 0.75 Mark.
Users 101-150 get 250 Marks, and a post costs 0.50 Mark.

Since so much of this is new, I think it best to create it from scratch, then open source it so everybody can have their own getmarked forum, where reputation flows between all forums.

It should not take long. We can save time by using markdown for posts, and having sign in using facebook/twitter/google/bitmark-address.

[Zandinga]

Sorry to bring this subject to the table, when so many new ideas keep beeing generated and discussed, when we even have a list of proposed topics to discuss... but, like Mark has done a few days ago, I feel the need of doing it now aswell for more or less the same reason...

I understand and agree with the 'momentum thing' to step on the GetMarked development, essencially with its foundation matters, tecnologic structure and prototyping.

But there are pending and urging things which were announced, discussed, approved, with equal importance, that should be already on prodution, or beeing the main development focus atm. Ofc this is just my oppinion and what counts to my own positionment as a member of the community who is also a miner, an investor and a system developer.

I'm talking specifically about the bitmark.co site and the IPM pool web interface. Because these objectives are too much important, not to the project development process, but mainly to Bitmarks assertion amoung the public and all the actors. I started here as a miner looking for a good long term project. Now I'm far more interested, as an investor, on the global adoption but I consider that all the opportunities chain begins with a good and desirable production (mining) system that was well designed to the benefit of the Bitmark Foundation and all the actors interested on this coin.

I've stated many times, here and at the IRC channel, that I think this project is achieving such a dimmension that some of the scheduled objectives are getting out of focus (or maybe not and we just don't know what's going on relatively to timmings and stage of the development beeing made) - and this is not good, imo.

This is my perspective about priorities and the overall project progress:

1. The roadmap shouldn't be an abstraction but a scheduled, objective and quantificable checklist.

2. The toDo list should be...

[Bitmark] Site > IPMPool > Utility Tools > Bitmark to Exchanges.

[GetMarked] System design, graphics and brending, structure and networking, prototyping, beta testing > GetMarked site = Production > Promotion and adoption campains.

... with Site and IPMPool the main priority.

The ideology of the 'no rush, we have enough time, we can change coins between ourselves and so, we know what Bitmark is and its potential, etc', per se, means nothing to outsiders - we must move outside our bounderies, put our marks on the game table and start playing our game there too. I think we'll only gain real credibility to successful implement all the bright ideas we're brainstorming everyday, after we accomplish this.

[coinsolidation]

Zadinga, you make good points, and I appreciated your concern.

The IPM Pool is number one, before any of this; it is nearly complete, maybe tomorrow it will be ready for use.

Bitmark.co, getMarked, and the forum, can all be based on the same thing.

Why should Bitmark.co not be the community first, the forum? then expand it with links to other things, to the IPM Pool, the documentation, the code, and the wiki. It will serve us best that way.
Creation of the forum is creation of most of getMarked, so we can lead by example and strike many things off our list at the same time.

I wrote before:

1. Funding and balance, you who are reading have already done much in this regard, thank you.
2. Effective communication, I need people to help me condense what I write in to short summaries of benefits and why, or to write their own. getMarked is a prime example, having no context of Bitmark's goals, no bullet points, just a lot of text which can easily lose its reader without conveying what needs conveyed.
3. Coherent management of outwards appearance. In line with effective communication, I feel the project lacks any coherent and up to date outwards face, something which entices people in from whichever part they see first, and which gives a clear overview of what we are about.
4. Outreach. I am worried about becoming just another fractional community on bitcointalk, we need to engage every day people and businesses, and also the people who want to see every one using digital money for every day transactions, with a faction of those ethical people who focus on anarchy/justice/legalities/governance to balance the project long term.
5. Becoming more organized, where people involved have more well defined roles. I do not care who does what, so long as they enjoy what they do and feel empowered to do it more by the project and those around them.
6. To increase the coherence and visibility of the interesting discussions people have, so much is said and so much is lost, the main thread often misses all of the interesting bits. Perhaps that is because it is an ineffective medium of communication, or maybe people feel they must discuss with me rather than each other.

Doing this solves 2, 3, 5, 6, and bitmark.co, and getMarked.org, it provides a place for everybody to come who we outreach to, and by hard working and innovation focussed on adoption 1 will be handled.

It also provides open source versions of what we create, to help other people and further boost bitmark adoption. We lead by example and make things which are useful to us, they will be useful to others too.

They may appear as separate ideas, but they are all linked together and provide usefuless and utility, and encourage adoption.

[cryptozim]

But there are pending and urging things which were announced, discussed, approved, with equal importance, that should be already on prodution, or beeing the main development focus atm.

This is a good point. I have no idea what's actually going on behind the scenes (exactly what project Mark is working on right now), but there seems to be a lot of attention focused on GetMarked right now. My understanding was that Mark was going to continue working on the Bitmark core project unless GetMarked was funded with 8 BTC.

It's possible that Mark is discussing GetMarked while working on other things. If that's the case, could you let us know? Just so there's no confusion?

[coinsolidation]

It's possible that Mark is discussing GetMarked while working on other things. If that's the case, could you let us know? Just so there's no confusion?

I have posted above.

The IPM Pool should be ready tomorrow, there is a bug I am testing today, and the user interface is almost complete. By Saturday at the latest.

The client is fine and has already been updated with release binaries modified to have new check points and fix a small bug which affected iOS users.

Bitmark.co is resolved by this, our community and work will all be in one place, on bitmark.co, it will be bitmark.co. It also creates getmarked.

So all the work can be done together, be far more fruitful, and achieve most of our goals.

Is there anything that I have missed?

[Androidicus]

My two pennies:

1) Valid points and concerns - the community is watching and caring about things!

2) The rapid firing of ideas does tend to smokescreen and obscure the hard work that is going on behind the scenes - I'm certain that @consolidation has more than one screen in front of him and responds to and fires ideas at this thread in between the hard work

[coinsolidation]

2) The rapid firing of ideas does tend to smokescreen and obscure the hard work that is going on behind the scenes - I'm certain that @consolidation has more than one screen in front of him and responds to and fires ideas at this thread in between the hard work

Correct, and that is why you will often see me online here and in IRC but not responding for a few hours, because I am also working.

There is no need to be concerned, ask yourselves what is outstanding? The IPM Pool and that is all, today we are fixing a bug, a miner and I, one final test, and then launch.

Nothing else is outstanding, bitmark.co was a concern to me as I didn't like the boring unuseful direction it was going, and I thought the over all project needed some things which I mentioned earlier. This last idea sprung from that topic, and solves most of the issues or concerns we have.

I am not infallible, I may have missed something, please check and tell me if there is something else outstanding or that needs done?

I am eager to define the next round of concerted effort, so that in one month from now we have progressed a great deal.

Exchanges are a topic we have already covered. If you want Bitmark on an exchange to buy or to sell ask the exchange or bring them here to discuss any needs we may not have considered.

[Este Nuno]

My understanding was that Mark was going to continue working on the Bitmark core project unless GetMarked was funded with 8 BTC.

Just want to point out if/when getMarked is funded he said that month would cover any and all work on Bitmark Core. Full time focus on both is the package as I understand it.

Also as a separate topic unrelated to the above quoted post: As anyone who hangs out in IRC knows Mark is away 95%+ of the time working on things. And has been answering peoples questions and doing calculations regarding the IPM. He's also been running all the pre-launch rounds of the IPM and dealing with all the rig rentals and seeking out miners from anywhere scrypt miners hang out to form a syndicate to cut costs.

I literally told him last night that he should take a a couple days off since he's been going non-stop since this thread was started over a month ago(he declined). So it's not hard to imagine why he's has some family concerns that play in to the current situation.

I'm just writing this in case someone is interested in the perspective of someone who hangs out in #bitmark 12 hours a day. I know that no one was questioning Mark's work and I'm not replying to anyone or any post in particular.

Sometimes this thread isn't sufficient to get all the spontaneous ideas and other stuff that goes on in chat, which is the main reason we're seeking out a new medium in addition to this thread. Mark often copy pastes chat logs and such but having an indexed forum type of thing would probably be better.

So on that note I suggested http://www.discourse.org/ as an option for a forum that we could potentially integrate with the getMarked system.

It's open source and created by one of the guys who started StackExchange(he's also guy who runs the blog CodingHorror).

https://github.com/discourse/discourse

Thoughts on potentially using discourse for discussion on our website?

[coinsolidation]

My understanding was that Mark was going to continue working on the Bitmark core project unless GetMarked was funded with 8 BTC.

Just want to point out if/when getMarked is funded he said that month would cover any and all work on Bitmark Core. Full time focus on both is the package as I understand it.

Correct, getMarked has already been funded with 0.9 BTC, and I am on Bitmark full time until that runs out or more replaces it. Let us remember that getMarked is Bitmark. We are here to use everything stable and mature we can on the core, maintain the core, add new things if they are really needed, and spend all the time we can focussing on adoption.

Project Bitmark is all about adoption. The concept of 'Marks' representing both reputation and money is how we will gain massive adoption.

At this point getMarked is most of Project Bitmark. More on this below...

Sometimes this thread isn't sufficient to get all the spontaneous ideas and other stuff that goes on in chat, which is the main reason we're seeking out a new medium in addition to this thread. Mark often copy pastes chat logs and such but having an indexed forum type of thing would probably be better.

So on that note I suggested http://www.discourse.org/ as an option for a forum that we could potentially integrate with the getMarked system.

It's open source and created by one of the guys who started StackExchange(he's also guy who runs the blog CodingHorror).

https://github.com/discourse/discourse

Thoughts on potentially using discourse for discussion on our website?

I think it is perfect.
1. it is nice and provides what we need
2. it can be the first thing to support Marking, and we can test it ourselves live.
3. We can later provide a pull request to discourse so that every discourse based website old and new can support getMarked natively.
4. Jeff Atwood may want to talk about it, which tells nearly every technical person, doer, and tech follower in the world about getMarked.

So my vote is a huge YES, what could be better?

Several people have contacted me asking if getMarked will support this program or that, if we can ask other companies and communities to use it. The answer is yes to everything, in time, that is what we are here to do.

Somebody even suggested BeerAdvocate, how cool would it be for them to have a branded getMarked integration where you can give beers to people? The beers are marks and they can use them to buy beer. "That's a great idea have a beer", and you get beer money. Isn't that awesome?

getMarked is an application anybody can integrate in to anything, the application is just a wrapper for Bitmark support, with the notion that Marks are both reputation and currency.
getMarked.org is the main website to act as a flagship and a fun community, like reddit where the karma is money which flows to all users, and between all getMarked adoptions.

Project Bitmark is all about adoption.

Bitmark is just the core and the currency, the thing keeps it decentralized. From the start I made it clear that a new API and keeping the code always up to date was my commitment to the core, later others will do this.

The new API is dependent on having adoption, on knowing what we need to provide. getMarked adoptions will sometimes not be able to run a full bitmark node, so they will need to use the new API of a collection of public trusted Bitmark nodes. This is why we need a new API, and why getMarked and adoption will power the creation of that API.

Forget the world of QTs and dumps on exchanges. We are here to create a daily use currency with massive adoption, internet wide adoption first and later worldwide. Digital Money.

Every person who ever marks anybody or anything will increase the value of the currency a little, and distribute it a little bit further.

Do you really want to mine empty blocks and sell them to people who are simply hoping that some value is found? or do you want to be powering and protecting a network with massive usage where every day people are trying to swap their fiat for the bitmarks you have mined? Our adoption path is getMarked, where people use Marks, the block reward is 20,000 Marks, how valuable is that?!

Fun.

[cryptozim]

My understanding was that Mark was going to continue working on the Bitmark core project unless GetMarked was funded with 8 BTC.

Just want to point out if/when getMarked is funded he said that month would cover any and all work on Bitmark Core. Full time focus on both is the package as I understand it.

Correct, getMarked has already been funded with 0.9 BTC, and I am on Bitmark full time until that runs out or more replaces it. Let us remember that getMarked is Bitmark. We are here to use everything stable and mature we can on the core, maintain the core, add new things if they are really needed, and spend all the time we can focussing on adoption.

Gotcha. I read your resource allocation as split between Bitmark/side work for income/family time, and that funding GetMarked was part of the side work. As someone who gets distracted easily, and gets excited about new things, I projected that onto you based on my understanding.

I will say that you have been extremely prolific in getting work done on Bitmark projects. Most other devs that I've seen on here would have taken 3x as long, or there would have been critical bugs with their releases. I will be donating a little more to the Bitmark Foundation later today.

[82ndabnmedic]

I will say that you have been extremely prolific in getting work done on Bitmark projects. Most other devs that I've seen on here would have taken 3x as long, or there would have been critical bugs with their releases. I will be donating a little more to the Bitmark Foundation later today.

Mark has far exceeded my expectations, such much so that I have adjusted my understanding of what it means to be a Developer. I have raised my expectations of Mark as well, as are our involvement in Bitmark increases so to does Marks output. At times, Mark has made exponential leaps forward.

I have sent an additional 150 Bitmarks to The Bitmark Foundation, as a reminder to those reading that there are many aspects of Bitmark, we cannot allow the Foundation to be lost in a sea of innovative ideas and proposals.


Note: I will be releasing a Document shortly outlining the role which I has chosen to embrace.