Bitmark

[Este Nuno]

If you are already mining in some way then you must accept that you are speculating and hope to acquire some Bitmarks with the expectation their value will rise, you must be inclusive to others who wish to do the same, that is fair.

This is true. No matter the negative connotation with the word 'speculation', the reality is that by mining(and thus spending money to acquire BTM) we are all speculating by definition.

The difference between us and most cryptocurrency speculators though is that we're speculating that Bitmark will add value in the future and not just looking for a short profitable trade.

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[iaminitnow06]

Hey Mark, what do you want the coin's symbol be??
Please visit here https://poloniex.com/coinRequest and add a request if you wish. People can vote if it is added. Otherwise i can try. Please suggest on what to fill in the boxes there

[coinsolidation]

All of the information is available on the first post, under the section 'Some Links'.

On the previous page I added to the conversation about this issue

We must be tolerant of each other and balance our needs.

Most are in agreement that they are in no rush to list Bitmark on an exchange, and if it is listed they are not particularly interested in selling.

Most were also in agreement that there was no rush to have a mining pool yet we had one on launch and most of you used it.

It is wise to recognise that when Bitcoin launched there were no exchanges and no pools, and there was little demand, cryptographic currency was new. Bitmark does not belong to that time, it belongs to this time.

With that in mind, we can establish that exchanges exist, and that we will find ourselves on an exchange whether we like it or not, people will speculate, some will buy and some will sell BTM.

Some will see these as negative things, but they are to be expected and cannot be stopped.

We can offset this with the fact that exchanges make Bitmark more visible and simplify the process of acquiring it. It will also encourage more participation from a larger community.

Let us also consider that if Bitmark is not seen as being actively engaging the outward community, they will presume a group of people have slowly pre-mined a large amount of Bitmarks before exposing it properly. That would damage our efforts, and we need to be fair to those who are not with us yet.

I mentioned earlier that people are mining with their own hardware and worry about covering their costs, and others are hiring mining rigs because there is no exchange. The two parties could help each other by investors helping to cover the costs of mining then splitting the BTM between them fairly.

If you are already mining in some way then you must accept that you are speculating and hope to acquire some Bitmarks with the expectation their value will rise, you must be inclusive to others who wish to do the same, that is fair.

Mining pools will join, exchanges will join, people with short and long term interests will join.

Let us together identify which are fair reasonable pools and exchanges, for they will be part of our public face.

The sooner we do this, the sooner we can turn our conversations back to our work.

I cannot stop you requesting Bitmark to be added, and do not mind either way, and Poloniex is one of the better exchanges.

Can you allow some time for the community to discuss the issue further, so that we are all comfortable with the needs of each other and feel balanced.

[iaminitnow06]

Can you allow some time for the community to discuss the issue further, so that we are all comfortable with the needs of each other and feel balanced.

Ok. As you wish, Community comes first

[coinsolidation]

Thank you.

Can you tell us why you want the process of adding Bitmark to an exchange to begin now? I think your reasons would help those who feel it is too early.

[Allow]

I think natural adding process to exchanges it's the better choice. I see no reason to delay.

[deepcoreotc]

I think natural adding process to exchanges it's the better choice. I see no reason to delay.

define natural adding process

[iaminitnow06]

Thank you.

Can you tell us why you want the process of adding Bitmark to an exchange to begin now? I think your reasons would help those who feel it is too early.

To be honest I have mixed feelings. In one side I don't want an exchange now, because I'm here to hold longtime. I am not going to let go of my bitmarks atleast for a minimum of 6 months.
But on the other side the bitmark community consists of very few members at the moment. It is known and supported by very few members. I know that early adopters of a cryptocoin should have the advantage but there is also an idea of fair distribution. I am new to crypto and I am also new to mining. So many people don't know how to mine or even rent one. I don't know why but I think this coin has a great future. The more the coin is distributed, the more it is advertised and the more exposure it gets. Greater number of supporters and FUDers , the more famous a coin becomes. More people will come who will develop third party apps and maybe also lend you a hand in the future. In short it will be widely adopted if it gets an exchange. By the way even if we add a request for adding Bitmark to an exchange, I think it'll take a minimum of 20-30 days for it to get added.

[Allow]

I think natural adding process to exchanges it's the better choice. I see no reason to delay.

define natural adding process

To add an ALT to an exchange do you need to submit it? Always?

[coinsolidation]

Can you tell us why you want the process of adding Bitmark to an exchange to begin now? I think your reasons would help those who feel it is too early.

To be honest I have mixed feelings. In one side I don't want an exchange now, because I'm here to hold longtime. I am not going to let go of my bitmarks atleast for a minimum of 6 months.
But on the other side the bitmark community consists of very few members at the moment. It is known and supported by very few members. I know that early adopters of a cryptocoin should have the advantage but there is also an idea of fair distribution. I am new to crypto and I am also new to mining. So many people don't know how to mine or even rent one. I don't know why but I think this coin has a great future. The more the coin is distributed, the more it is advertised and the more exposure it gets. Greater number of supporters and FUDers , the more famous a coin becomes. More people will come who will develop third party apps and maybe also lend you a hand in the future. In short it will be widely adopted if it gets an exchange. By the way even if we add a request for adding Bitmark to an exchange, I think it'll take a minimum of 20-30 days for it to get added.

Valid points, I respect them all. Your final point, that it will take time to be added is good to remember.

Perhaps your suggestion answers our questions, if we agree that Poloniex is a reasonable exchange, then it is fair for us as a community to say 'if you want an exchange for Bitmark then we recommend it be this one'.

Whether Bitmark is added or not, and when it is added, then rests with those who would find it useful to be there.

I am okay with this approach, it feels balanced, and resolves the issue.

I feel it is important to hear what deepcoreotc feels about the above.

On a different topic

Code:

[18:36] <EsteNuno> if all people were just hoarding them and not giving them [Bitcoin] away as freely as people used to we might have never reached this point
[18:37] <EsteNuno> people like to make fun of the guy who bought the pizza, but that was the first thing that i remember circulating around the internet among regular people
[18:37] <EsteNuno> the white paper was around for a while
[18:37] <EsteNuno> but the pizza was something that actually made it real
[18:44] <MarkPfennig> it was certainly a positive landmark which enabled people to think of the digital currency as having real world value and utility. I was very pleased on that day.
[18:45] <MarkPfennig> Sadly Bitmark can have no similar landmark, we can perhaps create our own.
[18:45] <MarkPfennig> That is a good question, what are some milestones for the project?
[18:45] <EsteNuno> hmm, i'll have to think on that

[deepcoreotc]

I think natural adding process to exchanges it's the better choice. I see no reason to delay.

define natural adding process

To add an ALT to an exchange do you need to submit it? Always?

No. Not all coins must be submitted to get on an exchange. If the exchange ops determine that a coin has trade value and that others would also agree with this , then the exchange ops themselves would seek to add said coin.  There are many element and matrix used by exchanges to make such determinations.
.  

[cryptozim]

In short it will be widely adopted if it gets an exchange.

Can you explain your reasoning for this? An exchange doesn't automatically ensure adoption.

[Allow]

I think natural adding process to exchanges it's the better choice. I see no reason to delay.

define natural adding process

To add an ALT to an exchange do you need to submit it? Always?

No. Not all coins must be submitted to get on an exchange. If the exchange ops determine that a coin has trade value and that others would also agree with this , then the exchange ops themselves would seek to add said coin.  There are many element and matrix used by exchanges to make such determinations.
.  

Ok, with "natural adding process" i mean that Bitmark should not be submitted to exchanges, but if they add it, it's ok.

[deepcoreotc]

Can you tell us why you want the process of adding Bitmark to an exchange to begin now? I think your reasons would help those who feel it is too early.

To be honest I have mixed feelings. In one side I don't want an exchange now, because I'm here to hold longtime. I am not going to let go of my bitmarks atleast for a minimum of 6 months.
But on the other side the bitmark community consists of very few members at the moment. It is known and supported by very few members. I know that early adopters of a cryptocoin should have the advantage but there is also an idea of fair distribution. I am new to crypto and I am also new to mining. So many people don't know how to mine or even rent one. I don't know why but I think this coin has a great future. The more the coin is distributed, the more it is advertised and the more exposure it gets. Greater number of supporters and FUDers , the more famous a coin becomes. More people will come who will develop third party apps and maybe also lend you a hand in the future. In short it will be widely adopted if it gets an exchange. By the way even if we add a request for adding Bitmark to an exchange, I think it'll take a minimum of 20-30 days for it to get added.

Valid points, I respect them all. Your final point, that it will take time to be added is good.

Perhaps your suggestion answers our questions, if we agree that Poloniex is a reasonable exchange, then it is fair for us as a community to say 'if you want an exchange for Bitmark then we recommend it be this one'.

Whether Bitmark is added or not, and when it is added, then rests with those who would find it useful to be there.

I am okay with this approach, it feels balanced, and resolves the issue.

I feel it is important to hear what deepcoreotc feels about the above.

On a different topic

Code:

[18:36] <EsteNuno> if all people were just hoarding them and not giving them [Bitcoin] away as freely as people used to we might have never reached this point
[18:37] <EsteNuno> people like to make fun of the guy who bought the pizza, but that was the first thing that i remember circulating around the internet among regular people
[18:37] <EsteNuno> the white paper was around for a while
[18:37] <EsteNuno> but the pizza was something that actually made it real
[18:44] <MarkPfennig> it was certainly a positive landmark which enabled people to think of the digital currency as having real world value and utility. I was very pleased on that day.
[18:45] <MarkPfennig> Sadly Bitmark can have no similar landmark, we can perhaps create our own.
[18:45] <MarkPfennig> That is a good question, what are some milestones for the project?
[18:45] <EsteNuno> hmm, i'll have to think on that

Here is my stance on the above about adoption Let us not again misinterpret adoption with speculation.  So here we must define adoption.

I would define adoption as the usages of a currency, ie bitmark, in the exchange of a good and or service.  Traders on an exchanges are not transferring tangible(physical goods, or service).  So early trading on an exchange has little reliance to adoption based on the definition here in stated.  

I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

Now that many exchanges are moving away from the voting scheme, I foresee that many exchanges will start to focus more on initial community support then attempting to purchase a spot on the exchange.

[coinsolidation]

I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

What if a user base of adopters vote with such conviction that an exchange decides to add bitmark?

I feel the ideal is a mix of both, the exchange comes to the community and is moved to add it, while adopters also back up the decision with votes of confidence.

Should we be inviting the input of reasonable exchange owners, or should we wait until the come across bitmark?
Notice I say input here to discuss any merits of bitmark, not to discuss adding it to an exchange.

[deepcoreotc]

I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

What if a user base of adopters vote with such conviction that an exchange decides to add bitmark?

Personally I feel the ideal is a mix of both, the exchange comes to the community and is moved to add it, while adopters also back up the decision with votes of confidence.

Let me ask this question...How many people that have BTM so far has went to someone and asked them to accept BTM in a trade other then a currency trade, like "would you accept 10 btm to babysit my kids? Or , I will trade you 100BTM for 2 dozen eggs? Something to this effect?

[deepcoreotc]

I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

What if a user base of adopters vote with such conviction that an exchange decides to add bitmark?

I feel the ideal is a mix of both, the exchange comes to the community and is moved to add it, while adopters also back up the decision with votes of confidence.

Should we be inviting the input of reasonable exchange owners, or should we wait until the come across bitmark?
Notice I say input here to discuss any merits of bitmark, not to discuss adding it to an exchange.

It is my opinion that we should wait until the exchange comes to us. My rationale of course has already been stated.  Even for their input, I would say let them find out about bitmark  organically, even if this take months.

[coinsolidation]

I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

What if a user base of adopters vote with such conviction that an exchange decides to add bitmark?

Personally I feel the ideal is a mix of both, the exchange comes to the community and is moved to add it, while adopters also back up the decision with votes of confidence.

Let me ask this question...How many people that have BTM so far has went to someone and asked them to accept BTM in a trade other then a currency trade, like "would you accept 10 btm to babysit my kids? Or , I will trade you 100BTM for 2 dozen eggs? Something to this effect?

It is a good question, three services that I know of
1. ethought accepts BTM for the use of his mining service (1%)
2. Allow has accepted BTM payment for his graphic design services
3. All of my own work and future work done for the bitmark foundation

Now let me ask you a question, after reading the How to Order section of your website, if I were to email you with an order for one "Natural Beef Jerky Slab Original 3.25oz Bags", and offered to pay with BTM, would you accept the order?

If so what price would you specify today, and how would you calculate it?
How do you calculate the price for the other currencies you accept?

If not, why not, what would it take for you to accept BTM as a payment option?

I would guess your own answers will be fairly indicative of the answers of any potential business adopters, perhaps with some bias on your own part since you are involved in bitmark.

[deepcoreotc]

I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

What if a user base of adopters vote with such conviction that an exchange decides to add bitmark?

Personally I feel the ideal is a mix of both, the exchange comes to the community and is moved to add it, while adopters also back up the decision with votes of confidence.

Let me ask this question...How many people that have BTM so far has went to someone and asked them to accept BTM in a trade other then a currency trade, like "would you accept 10 btm to babysit my kids? Or , I will trade you 100BTM for 2 dozen eggs? Something to this effect?

It is a good question, three services that I know of
1. ethought accepts BTM for the use of his mining service (1%)
2. Allow has accepted BTM payment for his graphic design services
3. All of my own work and future work done for the bitmark foundation

Now let me ask you a question, after reading the How to Order section of your website, if I were to email you with an order for one "Natural Beef Jerky Slab Original 3.25oz Bags", and offered to pay with BTM, would you accept the order?

If so what price would you specify today, and how would you calculate it?
How do you calculate the price for the other currencies you accept?

If not, why not, what would it take for you to accept BTM as a payment option?

I have been waiting for someone to do just that    yes I would accept btm, amount would be negotiated at the time this would happen

since all other coins that I accept  all already on an exchange by the time someone places an order, of course I use the dollar value conversion , at that time.  For example, i recently had an order places requesting the use of drk. The dollar drk/btc value was 0.0115btc per darkcoin. I have set my dollar value at a contact to $10.50, so that time each bag of jerky at the current btc value would have been 0.01667(btc was right at 630 at this time. 10.5/630=0.01667. so to get the drk need per bag would be 0.0115/.01667 which gives 1.449.  This is what was invoiced per bag, and this is what my customer paid for each bag of jerky ordered.  nice and clean.

Now since there is not establish trade value with btm, the whole process from my perspective as a merchant would be made on negotiation, once that is done of course I would use this as a basis from future pricing.

Good old school 1 on 1 haggling

[Chronikka]

I would support BTM being on an exchange only in the following manner...(an exchange come to us here in this community, get to know us a community, become so moved by the support and establish base of the original ideas of this project that the exchange then says I see great potential in this community and the support there to: I will list this currency on my exchange.

If this happens or a situation very close to this,  then the merits of the community would be a represented in the perceived value of our currency and the exchange would see that and act accordingly.

What if a user base of adopters vote with such conviction that an exchange decides to add bitmark?

I feel the ideal is a mix of both, the exchange comes to the community and is moved to add it, while adopters also back up the decision with votes of confidence.

Should we be inviting the input of reasonable exchange owners, or should we wait until the come across bitmark?
Notice I say input here to discuss any merits of bitmark, not to discuss adding it to an exchange.

I have reached out to the Poloniex owner about joining us here on this thread. Not about getting the coin on the exchange but about participating in these discussions on the coin.

I'm starting to see there is a strong divide between those who want it on an exchange and those who don't. I think input from an actual exchange operator could be useful, not just now, but in development of the coin down the road.

The problem I see with waiting, is what happens if an exchange begins trading bitmark and then turns out to be a bad player? Coinmarket.io was notorious for accepting new coins just so they could drum up new registrations and take advantage of more people. Those are the sort of places we need to avoid.