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Author Topic: A Comprehensive Comparative Look at GLBSE Mining Companies  (Read 6638 times)
MPOE-PR
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February 29, 2012, 06:25:11 PM
 #21

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How well was my bias was removed?
I think your analysis was biased, but not in the sense you suspect (swayed by your company ownership). It was biased by very specific and not necessarily universal assumptions you made. What teek pointed out about his shares tracking difficulty is very valid, for instance, I wouldn't expect his particular dividend to track the BTC/USD pair. Also the point about verbosity, an owner that spends a lot of time writing posts on the forum isn't either a silver bullet or necessarily a bad thing. Can pan out either way, and I don't see anyone holding the no BS approach against teek for instance.

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February 29, 2012, 06:27:01 PM
 #22

Now, before I spend too much time on improving the guide, I need address the problem with an being an owner of a company listed.

How well was my bias was removed? Did each company get a fair analysis so far, and if not was it because of a potential bias toward the company, or analysis metric issues?

Yeah I'm happy with my review.  Thanks for the thread as my attempt was rubbish because of my writing skills and it was hijacked by a promoter/fan of another company as it clearly highlighted the major differences between MH/s per BTC invested and MH/s per share purchased.  Also yes I did rush in head first but now I'm offering much better profit predictions.  Thanks.

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February 29, 2012, 06:38:12 PM
 #23

MergedMining -

MergedMining was the first company to implement the MergedMining technique, and it paid off. They started with a low dividend, and built up a reservoir of funds for dividend payouts. Since then, dividends have been growing, and have more room to run. OgNasty has proved to be a great operator, and it shows in every facet of how the company is managed. With the share price holding steady for a long time, you know your dividends will keep working for you at MergedMining. Just like TyGrr above it, while there isn't much of a failure plan, there doesn't really seem to be a need for one any time soon.

Thank you for the kind words about my company.  I also appreciate the criticism regarding a failure plan.  While I do have a plan in place for liquidating assets and returning funds to investors should the company fail, I have no plan in place if I were to be hit by a bus.  I will begin working on a plan for this scenario immediately.


Back to your thread -
I think the differences in how companies are run makes a huge impact on your analysis.  For example, some companies pay out 100% of their earnings and get a huge ROI number, while others are stockpiling reserves, buying back shares & investing in new hardware.  That results in some operators building the value of their company, while others pay out all their profits in dividends and will eventually lose value due to rising difficulty.  Personally, while dividends are important, they are only a part of the ROI.  Just something to think about.  I'm glad you rated MergedMining #2, but I wish it were based on actual ROI and not purely dividend payouts.  Something tells me price appreciation shouldn't be ignored and it definitely shouldn't hurt the "yearly performance estimate" ROI number on your analysis due to using the current share price.  You are in effect punishing well run companies and glorifying those with a falling share price.  I think this could probably be remedied fairly easily if you were to set a time frame such as "last 60 days ROI" and showed the dividends + share price appreciation.  

Perhaps another added metric showing ROI based off of the original IPO price would be useful as well and would show how well a company has been run, as opposed to how large they can get their negative cash flow before going under.

I'm glad you took the time to do this and I appreciate it.  Just wanted to give you some feedback before you got too deep into your routine.  I would love to see an accurate ROI number, but I feel you're not taking into account actual ROI and going simply off dividends.  That will result in you rating the most poorly run companies with the highest negative cash flow as having the best ROI when in reality they could be 1 dividend payment away from bankruptcy.

As far as bias, your penalizing of BMMO for lowering their dividend with difficulty is a mistake and should be removed, but I don't see that as bias.  The only bias I see is your bias towards companies that pay 100% of profits to investors through a dividend as that is the only metric you include in your ROI.  You are penalizing those of us trying to grow the value of our company shares and rewarding those with the highest payouts, even though they may not be sustainable.

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February 29, 2012, 07:08:08 PM
 #24

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when in reality they could be 1 dividend payment away from bankruptcy.

This has actually happened.

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February 29, 2012, 09:43:15 PM
 #25

Just bookmarked your guide in the GLBSE CoinConnect group - http://www.coinconnect.org/groups/profile/5908/glbse - please anyone else feel free to add relevant information about the GLBSE to the group.  Also anyone else can also set up their own groups on there about their own company's/interests and add blog posts, bookmarks, pages, files and other stuff to the group which can be an open or closed group.  You can sign into CoinConnect using your Facebook, Twitter, Google, OpenID logins or anonymously.

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March 02, 2012, 07:51:37 PM
 #26

BMMO has been updated with the new base layout all companies will have. This is just a basic, company only information layout, and soon will be updated to include metrics exclusive to the company, and others like it.

Let me know what you think!

Quote

BMMO - (Blockminers.com)
Website - GLBSE Asset Contract - GLBSE Trading Chart - Bitcointalk.org Forum Thread

CEO - teek

Bitcointalk.org Member Since - 09/04/2011

About -

Blockminers.com (BMMO) was started on September 4th, 2011 by Bitcointalk.org member teek. The company IPOed at 0.10 BTC per share, and released 4,000 shares.

BMMO is a company that, rather than issuing shares for part ownership of the company, issue shares that tie directly into a the output of the company. This means the company is essentially a long term mining contract, with no recurring cost to the investor.

The company started with 4 GHash/s of mining power, and each share was worth 1 MHash/s. Currently (03/02/2012) the company operates with 10 GHash/s, making each share worth 2.5 MHash/s.
This company currently charges a 0.0015 BTC (29.41%) per share fee from gross income per share. The company also pays out 100% of profit to shareholders; because of this, the company’s dividend follows the difficulty of the Bitcoin network. The higher the difficulty goes, the lower the dividend gets, and vice versa.

Contract Summary -

One share entitles the bearer to 1 MHash/s of mining power. Share owners do not have any voting rights. A share is in no way a representation of ownership in the company. Dividends are paid within the first 5 calendar days of a given month. (Revised to weekly) If the company starts mining at a loss, BMMO has the right to stop mining, until mining is profitable again, or indefinitely. BMMO will use all reasonable efforts to ensure shareholder value.

Full Contract -

This share entitles the holder to at least ONE MILLION HASHES PER SECOND of hashpower. This hashpower will be used in private computer system owned by BLOCKMINERS.COM and used in the process of "mining" bitcoins. All dividends will be payable within the first 5 calendar days of the following month. (Revised to Weekly) Dividends are not pro-rated; you must hold the share at time of dividend to be paid. The formula for producing dividends is the total amount of mining revenue minus total fees divided by the number of outstanding shares. Mining revenue is the total amount of revenue generated by mining operations in one calendar month. All dates / times will be represented in UTC. The fees as of issue are .003 BTC Per Share and are subject to recalculation monthly on settlement day for the following month. In the event the cost of mining exceeds the value of coins mined, BLOCKMINERS.COM may suspend mining operation for as long as it sees fit to mitigate potential loss, or indefinitely. Though the team at BLOCKMINERS.COM will use all reasonable efforts to ensure value for the holders of these shares, the shares are provided on a best effort basis and as with any investment there is risk involved. Please do not invest what you cannot afford to lose. The limit of liability of a shareholder is limited to the capital already invested when this share was purchased. *** This share does not represent ownership of any company ***

Similar Companies -

PureMining

Trading Volume - Recorded 03/02/2012

1 Day - 20 Shares
2 Day - 37 Shares
7 Day - 85 Shares
30 Day - 345 Shares
6 Month - 4,509 Shares

Trading Price Averages - Recorded 03/02/2012

1 Day - 0.3935 BTC per share
2 Day - 0.3968 BTC per share
7 Day - 0.3894 BTC per share
30 Day - 0.3834 BTC per share
6 Month - 0.1957 BTC per share

Dividend Payout Type -
Weekly dividends - Normally paid on Sundays

Dividend History -

10/02/2011 - 0.0142 BTC Per Share
11/01/2011 - 0.0146 BTC Per Share
12/03/2011 - 0.0159 BTC Per Share

Switched dividend payout from monthly to weekly.

12/11/2011 - 0.0055 BTC Per Share
12/18/2011 - 0.0046 BTC Per Share
12/26/2011 - 0.0041 BTC Per Share
01/01/2012 - 0.0044 BTC Per Share
01/08/2012 - 0.0041 BTC Per Share
01/15/2012 - 0.0041 BTC Per Share
01/22/2012 - 0.0041 BTC Per Share
01/29/2012 - 0.0040 BTC Per Share
02/05/2012 - 0.0039 BTC Per Share
02/12/2012 - 0.0036 BTC Per Share
02/19/2012 - 0.0036 BTC Per Share
02/26/2012 - 0.0036 BTC Per Share


BMMO shares are not worth 2.5 mhash, they are worth 1mhash.

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March 02, 2012, 08:02:27 PM
 #27

BMMO has been updated with the new base layout all companies will have. This is just a basic, company only information layout, and soon will be updated to include metrics exclusive to the company, and others like it.

Let me know what you think!

Quote

BMMO - (Blockminers.com)
Website - GLBSE Asset Contract - GLBSE Trading Chart - Bitcointalk.org Forum Thread

CEO - teek

Bitcointalk.org Member Since - 09/04/2011

About -

Blockminers.com (BMMO) was started on September 4th, 2011 by Bitcointalk.org member teek. The company IPOed at 0.10 BTC per share, and released 4,000 shares.

BMMO is a company that, rather than issuing shares for part ownership of the company, issue shares that tie directly into a the output of the company. This means the company is essentially a long term mining contract, with no recurring cost to the investor.

The company started with 4 GHash/s of mining power, and each share was worth 1 MHash/s. Currently (03/02/2012) the company operates with 10 GHash/s, making each share worth 2.5 MHash/s.
This company currently charges a 0.0015 BTC (29.41%) per share fee from gross income per share. The company also pays out 100% of profit to shareholders; because of this, the company’s dividend follows the difficulty of the Bitcoin network. The higher the difficulty goes, the lower the dividend gets, and vice versa.

Contract Summary -

One share entitles the bearer to 1 MHash/s of mining power. Share owners do not have any voting rights. A share is in no way a representation of ownership in the company. Dividends are paid within the first 5 calendar days of a given month. (Revised to weekly) If the company starts mining at a loss, BMMO has the right to stop mining, until mining is profitable again, or indefinitely. BMMO will use all reasonable efforts to ensure shareholder value.

Full Contract -

This share entitles the holder to at least ONE MILLION HASHES PER SECOND of hashpower. This hashpower will be used in private computer system owned by BLOCKMINERS.COM and used in the process of "mining" bitcoins. All dividends will be payable within the first 5 calendar days of the following month. (Revised to Weekly) Dividends are not pro-rated; you must hold the share at time of dividend to be paid. The formula for producing dividends is the total amount of mining revenue minus total fees divided by the number of outstanding shares. Mining revenue is the total amount of revenue generated by mining operations in one calendar month. All dates / times will be represented in UTC. The fees as of issue are .003 BTC Per Share and are subject to recalculation monthly on settlement day for the following month. In the event the cost of mining exceeds the value of coins mined, BLOCKMINERS.COM may suspend mining operation for as long as it sees fit to mitigate potential loss, or indefinitely. Though the team at BLOCKMINERS.COM will use all reasonable efforts to ensure value for the holders of these shares, the shares are provided on a best effort basis and as with any investment there is risk involved. Please do not invest what you cannot afford to lose. The limit of liability of a shareholder is limited to the capital already invested when this share was purchased. *** This share does not represent ownership of any company ***

Similar Companies -

PureMining

Trading Volume - Recorded 03/02/2012

1 Day - 20 Shares
2 Day - 37 Shares
7 Day - 85 Shares
30 Day - 345 Shares
6 Month - 4,509 Shares

Trading Price Averages - Recorded 03/02/2012

1 Day - 0.3935 BTC per share
2 Day - 0.3968 BTC per share
7 Day - 0.3894 BTC per share
30 Day - 0.3834 BTC per share
6 Month - 0.1957 BTC per share

Dividend Payout Type -
Weekly dividends - Normally paid on Sundays

Dividend History -

10/02/2011 - 0.0142 BTC Per Share
11/01/2011 - 0.0146 BTC Per Share
12/03/2011 - 0.0159 BTC Per Share

Switched dividend payout from monthly to weekly.

12/11/2011 - 0.0055 BTC Per Share
12/18/2011 - 0.0046 BTC Per Share
12/26/2011 - 0.0041 BTC Per Share
01/01/2012 - 0.0044 BTC Per Share
01/08/2012 - 0.0041 BTC Per Share
01/15/2012 - 0.0041 BTC Per Share
01/22/2012 - 0.0041 BTC Per Share
01/29/2012 - 0.0040 BTC Per Share
02/05/2012 - 0.0039 BTC Per Share
02/12/2012 - 0.0036 BTC Per Share
02/19/2012 - 0.0036 BTC Per Share
02/26/2012 - 0.0036 BTC Per Share


BMMO shares are not worth 2.5 mhash, they are worth 1mhash.

Your contract says that shares will be worth at least 1 mhash, but with current output and how many shares you have issued, it makes shares worth 2.5 mhash...


Yes - at least 1 mhash, no where does it say the entire output of the farm is divided equally amongst the shares.  Right now the shares are set at a fixed value of 1mhash, this may change, it may not, but what our farm puts out is irrelevant.  Besides, our farm is bigger than my avatar says so please do not make assumptions.


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March 04, 2012, 11:55:04 PM
 #28

JL421, thanks for doing this.

I'd be interested in buying some shares of a "managed portfolio contract" as was asked above.

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March 05, 2012, 01:24:18 AM
 #29

Interesting data dump and a worthwhile read.

I would however caution everyone to be very, very cautious investing in any asset offered on GLBSE. The first person to offer an in-depth analytical blog reviewing and rating issues on the market was the scammer Peter Lambert. He was also the first to cry wolf about the fake GLBSE shares (which were handled by the real GLBSE folks) and the two US Gold offerings, also scams. He was very supportive of BitcoinMint.US when he took over the SLV asset, and turned that one into a scam, manipulating the price and lying outrageously about what he was doing with the fund. There remains several thousand dollars in value that disappeared, while he interestingly continues to offer silver coins to the community here.

Information is good, having the market leaders tell us that everything is a-okay with a certain issue can sometimes prove to be... a little problematic at least.

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March 05, 2012, 03:04:27 AM
 #30

you could do delayed reports, release info on what you did 1 month later
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March 05, 2012, 08:24:48 AM
 #31

Interesting.

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March 05, 2012, 02:54:41 PM
 #32

He was very supportive of BitcoinMint.US when he took over the SLV asset, and turned that one into a scam, manipulating the price and lying outrageously about what he was doing with the fund. There remains several thousand dollars in value that disappeared, while he interestingly continues to offer silver coins to the community here.

Just because Peter Lambert was supportive of BitcoinMint.US means nothing to the character of the latter. BitcoinMint.US is a good and honest trader here in the forums. Don't slander someones name because a scammer may have recommended them.

Can he cut the quotes in half, or quote just the relevant information?!

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March 05, 2012, 03:59:16 PM
 #33

Thank you for providing a good report on all the mining stocks! Now I can buy in peace  Grin

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March 05, 2012, 11:07:45 PM
 #34

I actually just put something up about transparency in the M.ETF thread.

M.ETF thread? sorry, forum search turns up nothing. Can you link the thread?

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March 05, 2012, 11:09:08 PM
 #35

I actually just put something up about transparency in the M.ETF thread.

M.ETF thread? sorry, forum search turns up nothing. Can you link the thread?

In the Marketplace...just a couple threads below this.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67275.0
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March 16, 2012, 07:50:43 AM
 #36

This is a great start for a guide but I would like the mining CEOs release more financial results.  As stated earlier ROI is more than just dividends.  A mining company could buy more efficient rigs and increase shareholder.  Also, mining companies should take into account the depreciation of their mining rigs.  With some numbers they can publish their return on assets and return on equity.

In short they need accountants, until then it would be difficult to set a value on these equities.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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April 17, 2012, 02:15:51 AM
 #37

Could use a refresh?

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April 17, 2012, 02:47:07 AM
 #38

Understand - maybe we post a bounty for someone to research and update weekly?

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