[GLBSE] M.ETF - The first Mining ETF listed on the GLBSE

[Eveofwar]

As part of the push for GLBSE 2.0 I have contacted  JL421 and asked for various proof of identification.

Hi identity has been verified to me by means of photo ID, proof of address, phone number, and facebook.

JL421 is now GLBSE verified.

Nefario

Not that I had any doubts before

This is good news to hear though.

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[Nefario]

It's part of our push to stamp out fraud on GLBSE. Asset issuers won't be REQUIRED (i.e. it's not compulsory) but our rating system will mark that asset as very risky. Anyone that invests and loses as a result would have only themselves to blame.

Nefario.

[2weiX]

some quick remarks and questions:

- 5% fee and 5% "profit fee" is really steep. almost prohibitively so.
- an ETF should never "issue more shares", it should "create" shares, issuing endlessly. just make sure you buy stuff with the BTC.
- any managed fund is not really an "ETF", it's just an investmend fund. seeing my point above - if you were able to keep the balance between holdings, you should be able to create an infinite amount of shares as long as there are companies traded on GLBSE.
- how about making two issues - one paying out dividends, the other one retaining / reinvesting the dividends of the constituents?
- how do you calculate the NAV of the ETF? is there a pricing bot in the background monitoring prices? this also relates to the question of creating more "shares" - if you were to always determine the correct price of the ETF, you should ALWAYS be able to issue more shares without decreasing current investors' profits.

[MPOE-PR]

how do you calculate the NAV of the ETF? is there a pricing bot in the background monitoring prices? this also relates to the question of creating more "shares" - if you were to always determine the correct price of the ETF, you should ALWAYS be able to issue more shares without decreasing current investors' profits.

Kind of curious myself.

[molecular]

how do you calculate the NAV of the ETF? is there a pricing bot in the background monitoring prices? this also relates to the question of creating more "shares" - if you were to always determine the correct price of the ETF, you should ALWAYS be able to issue more shares without decreasing current investors' profits.

I'm not sure the liquidity is sufficient for a price determined by a bot to be meaningful enough.

[HorseRider]

will you set up a website to disclose the portfolio details of the ETF?

[marked]

Does the fund limit asset holdings to a fixed maximum of that assets issues (e.g. 33% of any asset)
Does the fund limit holding of all assets to a fixed maximum of the market?

Also how do we/you vote for motions on assets that the fund holds?



marked

[2weiX]

how do you calculate the NAV of the ETF? is there a pricing bot in the background monitoring prices? this also relates to the question of creating more "shares" - if you were to always determine the correct price of the ETF, you should ALWAYS be able to issue more shares without decreasing current investors' profits.

I'm not sure the liquidity is sufficient for a price determined by a bot to be meaningful enough.

if liquidity is bad, an ETF is equally bad.

since you're both issuer AND market maker here, calculating the price is REALLY easy.

bid and ask price of the ETF should reflect that.
it should also reflect that if I buy 1 M.ETF at whatever price, I should exactly know what I own (ie the NAV and the constituents of the ETF should be disclosed once each day at noo CST or whatever).

the NAV should be the middle of the spread.

so if I buy 1 M.ETF @ 2BTC, you should immediately put x% of that into asset A, y% into asset B etc etc.
if you cannot, you should always be ahead of the market so that only 80% or so of the ETF are in circulation.
I wouldnt want me buying 100BTC worth of M.ETF disrupting the market of some poor mining stock because there's not enough on the ask side.

i am a full time ETF trader, so please contact me if you have questions :-D

[molecular]

how do you calculate the NAV of the ETF? is there a pricing bot in the background monitoring prices? this also relates to the question of creating more "shares" - if you were to always determine the correct price of the ETF, you should ALWAYS be able to issue more shares without decreasing current investors' profits.

I'm not sure the liquidity is sufficient for a price determined by a bot to be meaningful enough.

if liquidity is bad, an ETF is equally bad.

since you're both issuer AND market maker here, calculating the price is REALLY easy.

bid and ask price of the ETF should reflect that.
it should also reflect that if I buy 1 M.ETF at whatever price, I should exactly know what I own (ie the NAV and the constituents of the ETF should be disclosed once each day at noo CST or whatever).

the NAV should be the middle of the spread.

so if I buy 1 M.ETF @ 2BTC, you should immediately put x% of that into asset A, y% into asset B etc etc.
if you cannot, you should always be ahead of the market so that only 80% or so of the ETF are in circulation.
I wouldnt want me buying 100BTC worth of M.ETF disrupting the market of some poor mining stock because there's not enough on the ask side.

i am a full time ETF trader, so please contact me if you have questions :-D

It sure sounds to me like you'd be someone who could run an ETF to high standards... have you considered that?

[MPOE-PR]

i am a full time ETF trader, so please contact me if you have questions :-D

This is what I like most about bitcoins, we have enough expertise here to start a central bank for some poor african nation.

[2weiX]

how do you calculate the NAV of the ETF? is there a pricing bot in the background monitoring prices? this also relates to the question of creating more "shares" - if you were to always determine the correct price of the ETF, you should ALWAYS be able to issue more shares without decreasing current investors' profits.

I'm not sure the liquidity is sufficient for a price determined by a bot to be meaningful enough.

if liquidity is bad, an ETF is equally bad.

since you're both issuer AND market maker here, calculating the price is REALLY easy.

bid and ask price of the ETF should reflect that.
it should also reflect that if I buy 1 M.ETF at whatever price, I should exactly know what I own (ie the NAV and the constituents of the ETF should be disclosed once each day at noo CST or whatever).

the NAV should be the middle of the spread.

so if I buy 1 M.ETF @ 2BTC, you should immediately put x% of that into asset A, y% into asset B etc etc.
if you cannot, you should always be ahead of the market so that only 80% or so of the ETF are in circulation.
I wouldnt want me buying 100BTC worth of M.ETF disrupting the market of some poor mining stock because there's not enough on the ask side.

i am a full time ETF trader, so please contact me if you have questions :-D

It sure sounds to me like you'd be someone who could run an ETF to high standards... have you considered that?

I am a stockbroker by profession.
My profession is highly regulated and prohibits me from issuing and/or professionally trading shares (or the like) outside of the regulations.

Although GLBSE could be argued to be a hobby rather than a serious exchange, I am not gonna put my lawyer and my company (I am employed by a brokerdealer/marketmaker/specialist) through the process of securing my status for a couple of BTC.

I had to jump through enough hoops and sign a 4 page contract when I started up bitcoincommodities.com and it was made VERY clear that any trading in non-physical entities would be strictly forbidden.

I'd beVERY VERY pleased, willing and able, however, to advise and comment.

[molecular]

i am a full time ETF trader, so please contact me if you have questions :-D

This is what I like most about bitcoins, we have enough expertise here to start a central bank for some poor african nation.

In a sense we (satoshi) already started "the peoples' central bank", no?

[mila]

if liquidity is bad, an ETF is equally bad.

since you're both issuer AND market maker here, calculating the price is REALLY easy.

bid and ask price of the ETF should reflect that.
it should also reflect that if I buy 1 M.ETF at whatever price, I should exactly know what I own
...
so if I buy 1 M.ETF @ 2BTC, you should immediately put x% of that into asset A, y% into asset B etc etc.
if you cannot, you should always be ahead of the market so that only 80% or so of the ETF are in circulation.
I wouldnt want me buying 100BTC worth of M.ETF disrupting the market of some poor mining stock because there's not enough on the ask side.

i am a full time ETF trader, so please contact me if you have questions :-D
...
My profession is highly regulated and prohibits me from issuing and/or professionally trading shares (or the like) outside of the regulations.
...
I'd beVERY VERY pleased, willing and able, however, to advise and comment.

I'd love to witness a "3-ring binder" on how to manage etf on glbse.
following it would be of course just a recommendation but at least all parties would use the same terms with the same meaning and they would report their actions in a standardized and homogenous way.

best practices for etf mgmt would be a really valuable tool.
at least with the possible arrival of smart money to glbse, that it won't play against a rookie fund
or to signal bright enough that by certain standard criteria the market is not etf ready/friendly (bad liquidity, irrational behavior, etc)

my first question is when to publish portfolio? if in real time or delayed and/or to announce also goals & plans for future investment.
and second question what are the basic terms to get familiar with (nav, p.ex.)

[2weiX]

wrote something on the issue of ETFs, please read:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68365.0

[tgmarks]

Interested and following

[gewure]

how do you calculate the NAV of the ETF? is there a pricing bot in the background monitoring prices? this also relates to the question of creating more "shares" - if you were to always determine the correct price of the ETF, you should ALWAYS be able to issue more shares without decreasing current investors' profits.

I'm not sure the liquidity is sufficient for a price determined by a bot to be meaningful enough.

if liquidity is bad, an ETF is equally bad.

since you're both issuer AND market maker here, calculating the price is REALLY easy.

bid and ask price of the ETF should reflect that.
it should also reflect that if I buy 1 M.ETF at whatever price, I should exactly know what I own (ie the NAV and the constituents of the ETF should be disclosed once each day at noo CST or whatever).

the NAV should be the middle of the spread.

so if I buy 1 M.ETF @ 2BTC, you should immediately put x% of that into asset A, y% into asset B etc etc.
if you cannot, you should always be ahead of the market so that only 80% or so of the ETF are in circulation.
I wouldnt want me buying 100BTC worth of M.ETF disrupting the market of some poor mining stock because there's not enough on the ask side.

i am a full time ETF trader, so please contact me if you have questions :-D

already happened to tygrr-tech. glbse markets have to grow!!

[2weiX]

how do you calculate the NAV of the ETF? is there a pricing bot in the background monitoring prices? this also relates to the question of creating more "shares" - if you were to always determine the correct price of the ETF, you should ALWAYS be able to issue more shares without decreasing current investors' profits.

I'm not sure the liquidity is sufficient for a price determined by a bot to be meaningful enough.

if liquidity is bad, an ETF is equally bad.

since you're both issuer AND market maker here, calculating the price is REALLY easy.

bid and ask price of the ETF should reflect that.
it should also reflect that if I buy 1 M.ETF at whatever price, I should exactly know what I own (ie the NAV and the constituents of the ETF should be disclosed once each day at noo CST or whatever).

the NAV should be the middle of the spread.

so if I buy 1 M.ETF @ 2BTC, you should immediately put x% of that into asset A, y% into asset B etc etc.
if you cannot, you should always be ahead of the market so that only 80% or so of the ETF are in circulation.
I wouldnt want me buying 100BTC worth of M.ETF disrupting the market of some poor mining stock because there's not enough on the ask side.

i am a full time ETF trader, so please contact me if you have questions :-D

already happened to tygrr-tech. glbse markets have to grow!!

exactly what happened do tygrrr?

[gewure]

the already not very big overall demand in stocks on the glbse moved to bitcoin syndicate ant M.ETF, leaving empty bids for tygrr and other stocks. overall demand has to grow. either ppl invest more into bitcoin mining corporations, or there have to be more people investing. there is just too much demand in capital for so many on glbse listed companies. the capital supply can't finance all companies as desired right now, or am i wrong?

[mila]

@gewure I'd say you're right. 1700 btc went to BTCSYN, 500 btc went to TyGrr-bank, M.ETF collected capital and this might have caused sell off of other stock at glbse. spread is high for some stock and/or the bids very low compared to usual prices (avg or IPO). i think this means that liquidity is bad. and RSM did not yet finished IPO while the shares started trading at loss (but that asset has issues on its own). I agree that glbse could use more capital but on the other hand, it's interesting to observe as is. I came for the experience and (self)education it provides and I learn a lot. If things would be perfect, I might loose less money but also learn less : )

p.s. I've found out that second life capital exchange exists as well, is 4 years older than glbse and we can learn from them as well.

[mila]

> people who bought the IPO wanting to sell out

maybe if your stock was 1:20 cheaper the price would not drop occasionally by 25% and could absorb supply easier
just my rookie observation and sticky idea that whoever sold at 2, 2.40 and prices like that could not wait for an ask around 2.80-3 to be filled. whenever will people 'sell out' they can drag the price through basement.