The era of American drone supremacy is fading

[Chef Ramsay]

America would not tolerate another country operating with the same scope and secrecy

In much of the world, the Predator drone symbolises US power. It is ubiquitous, stealthy and can strike at any moment. They patrol the skies of central Asia, north Africa, the Arabian peninsula – and now Iraq. Other countries have nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers. But nobody else can match the lethal ingenuity of America’s Hellfire missile. Little surprise that two US presidents – George W Bush, and now Barack Obama – have resorted to them so frequently. But their heyday is waning. America’s unipolar drone moment is ending.

Mr Obama’s chief problem is their speedy adoption around the world. Unlike nuclear weapons, there is no treaty governing the use of military drones. For roughly a decade, the Central Intelligence Agency has been able to strike targets pretty much with impunity – and blanket deniability. Of America’s partners, only the UK has been deemed fit for export. But others, including Iran, whose drones also patrol the same Iraqi skies as their US counterparts, have reverse engineered the unmanned aerial vehicle with relative ease. China is even exporting drones. Last month Saudi Arabia became its first big customer. Within five years, many countries, some of them highly unsavoury, will possess military drones, says the Rand Corporation.

All of which poses a quandary for Mr Obama and whoever succeeds him. Put simply, the US must emulate the hypocritical parent: do as I say, not as I do. Nobody wants other countries to act like the US. Many voices, including Mr Obama himself, have urged the US to put drone warfare on a transparent footing. At the moment, Mr Obama can order drone assassinations without having to admit it, or explain himself to anyone. Hundreds of militants have been killed in Pakistan, Yemen, and elsewhere. But hundreds more civilians, perhaps thousands, have also been accidentally killed.

More...http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1156f238-fdf3-11e3-bd0e-00144feab7de.html#axzz364MANtD9

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[hodap]

The US should finally wake up one day and see why outsourcing is a bad idea.

Once another country reach certain level of technology competency, they can pretty much copy anything from US.

[Chef Ramsay]

The US should finally wake up one day and see why outsourcing is a bad idea.

Once another country reach certain level of technology competency, they can pretty much copy anything from US.

Yep but it then incentivizes the military industrial complex to keep making new shit so the politicians can buy and say we have a leg up now. So to recap, make something new and sell it to allies or whoever which then can trigger an arms race or something similar to keep the MIC in profits in lieu of another war or both.

[koshgel]

You have to pay to read the full article?

The legal and morality issues surrounding drone strikes is very murky and as a result very scary.  That fact that Obama can order a drone strike on an AMERICAN in a foreign country is worrisome and sets a dangerous precedent. Anwar Al-Awlaki had extremist views and supported terrorism but he was an American citizen murdered by a drone without any sort of legal trial by a jury of his peers.

As an American I'm not really intimidated or scared by other countries gaining drones. The US defense budget is so bloated that America will maintain military supremacy for some time.

[cinder]

You have to pay to read the full article?

The legal and morality issues surrounding drone strikes is very murky and as a result very scary.  That fact that Obama can order a drone strike on an AMERICAN in a foreign country is worrisome and sets a dangerous precedent. Anwar Al-Awlaki had extremist views and supported terrorism but he was an American citizen murdered by a drone without any sort of legal trial by a jury of his peers.

As an American I'm not really intimidated or scared by other countries gaining drones. The US defense budget is so bloated that America will maintain military supremacy for some time.

The threat to US military supremacy comes from within. The cost already put a huge pressure on local citizen and decaying infrastructure.

[TaunSew]

You have to pay to read the full article?

The legal and morality issues surrounding drone strikes is very murky and as a result very scary.  That fact that Obama can order a drone strike on an AMERICAN in a foreign country is worrisome and sets a dangerous precedent. Anwar Al-Awlaki had extremist views and supported terrorism but he was an American citizen murdered by a drone without any sort of legal trial by a jury of his peers.

As an American I'm not really intimidated or scared by other countries gaining drones. The US defense budget is so bloated that America will maintain military supremacy for some time.

The threat to US military supremacy comes from within. The cost already put a huge pressure on local citizen and decaying infrastructure.

Not really, without the US military the money would be spent on something else and likely to less benefit.

For instance - I'm reminded of California where they took bonds intended to construct new schools (a lot of infrastructure in America is painfully old) and then (without consent) allocated $1 billion from that fund to buying ipads for kids.   Why not give every school child in America an IPAD at the cost of $1 trillion?  I'm sure China, where most Ipads are constructed, and the Apple corporation would love that.

At least the US military is one of the few actual American industries left, which employs Americans, even though the end results are unfortunately nefarious in nature.

[pungopete468]

You have to pay to read the full article?

The legal and morality issues surrounding drone strikes is very murky and as a result very scary.  That fact that Obama can order a drone strike on an AMERICAN in a foreign country is worrisome and sets a dangerous precedent. Anwar Al-Awlaki had extremist views and supported terrorism but he was an American citizen murdered by a drone without any sort of legal trial by a jury of his peers.

As an American I'm not really intimidated or scared by other countries gaining drones. The US defense budget is so bloated that America will maintain military supremacy for some time.

The threat to US military supremacy comes from within. The cost already put a huge pressure on local citizen and decaying infrastructure.

Not really, without the US military the money would be spent on something else and likely to less benefit.

For instance - I'm reminded of California where they took bonds intended to construct new schools (a lot of infrastructure in America is painfully old) and then (without consent) allocated $1 billion from that fund to buying ipads for kids.   Why not give every school child in America an IPAD at the cost of $1 trillion?  I'm sure China, where most Ipads are constructed, and the Apple corporation would love that.

At least the US military is one of the few actual American industries left, which employs Americans, even though the end results are unfortunately nefarious in nature.

You are correct on one hand, however the US military is a non-productive industry in that it doesn't sustain itself economically. There's no product produced, no service provided to the community, and all the salaries are paid with tax revenue rather than a self-regenerating source of income like other industries.

The US was always intended to be militarized beyond imagination, but not in the form of a permanent army controlled by the federal government... The duty of protecting this country is delegated within the Constitution; if you're a US citizen of able mind and body without immoral intentions then you are responsible both collectively and individually for the protection of this nation against all enemies; foreign and domestic... The Constitution depends and relies on morality being taught to the children of this country; they need the skills and ability to determine for themselves the differences between right and wrong and the personal strength to act against what they know is wrong, even knowing that they may be the only one taking action. This structure is necessary to minimize government expenses and reduce the risk of abuse.

As far as pulling military funding goes, there's no point. There's really no stopping this financial train wreck now. There's no need to change anything actually. Sadly, things will last longer without trying to fix what cannot be repaired... The longer our Congress remains inactive and constantly increases the debt ceiling, the longer we have until a crash results on its own. Acting now in an attempt to fix this situation would trigger a collapse...

As far as the drone supremacy goes, there is really no such thing as drone supremacy. The world is expanding its knowledge base far too quickly to believe in such a thing as a technological supremacy any more. There's a reality now that exists which didn't exist in previous decades. The reality is that any person of moderate intelligence has the resources available to learn, design, build, and effectively deploy a weapon capable of striking any person alive on this Earth. That's the truth of both double edged swords and technology alike. It's clear that morality has a larger part to play in the future of society than it does even now...

Drones, missiles, lasers, coil-guns, all are scary things when used improperly or immorally. The leaders of our world should be setting an example for the world that morality is above all else, and that having the ability to kill with these weapons doesn't give one the privilege, right, or authority to use them without just cause based on good judgements by moral characters. That's about 180* out from how the world leadership appears to be acting now.

[Leina]

The military industry can go on for quite a while.

The mongol empire and their military conquest are one of the most destructive wars in human history. Yet if you are part of the army, you are given the opportunity to climb the leadership rank and all your decedent usually do pretty being part of the conqueror force.

[DrG]

You have to pay to read the full article?

The legal and morality issues surrounding drone strikes is very murky and as a result very scary.  That fact that Obama can order a drone strike on an AMERICAN in a foreign country is worrisome and sets a dangerous precedent. Anwar Al-Awlaki had extremist views and supported terrorism but he was an American citizen murdered by a drone without any sort of legal trial by a jury of his peers.

As an American I'm not really intimidated or scared by other countries gaining drones. The US defense budget is so bloated that America will maintain military supremacy for some time.

The threat to US military supremacy comes from within. The cost already put a huge pressure on local citizen and decaying infrastructure.

Not really, without the US military the money would be spent on something else and likely to less benefit.

For instance - I'm reminded of California where they took bonds intended to construct new schools (a lot of infrastructure in America is painfully old) and then (without consent) allocated $1 billion from that fund to buying ipads for kids.   Why not give every school child in America an IPAD at the cost of $1 trillion?  I'm sure China, where most Ipads are constructed, and the Apple corporation would love that.

At least the US military is one of the few actual American industries left, which employs Americans, even though the end results are unfortunately nefarious in nature.

You are correct on one hand, however the US military is a non-productive industry in that it doesn't sustain itself economically. There's no product produced, no service provided to the community, and all the salaries are paid with tax revenue rather than a self-regenerating source of income like other industries.

The US was always intended to be militarized beyond imagination, but not in the form of a permanent army controlled by the federal government... The duty of protecting this country is delegated within the Constitution; if you're a US citizen of able mind and body without immoral intentions then you are responsible both collectively and individually for the protection of this nation against all enemies; foreign and domestic... The Constitution depends and relies on morality being taught to the children of this country; they need the skills and ability to determine for themselves the differences between right and wrong and the personal strength to act against what they know is wrong, even knowing that they may be the only one taking action. This structure is necessary to minimize government expenses and reduce the risk of abuse.

As far as pulling military funding goes, there's no point. There's really no stopping this financial train wreck now. There's no need to change anything actually. Sadly, things will last longer without trying to fix what cannot be repaired... The longer our Congress remains inactive and constantly increases the debt ceiling, the longer we have until a crash results on its own. Acting now in an attempt to fix this situation would trigger a collapse...

As far as the drone supremacy goes, there is really no such thing as drone supremacy. The world is expanding its knowledge base far too quickly to believe in such a thing as a technological supremacy any more. There's a reality now that exists which didn't exist in previous decades. The reality is that any person of moderate intelligence has the resources available to learn, design, build, and effectively deploy a weapon capable of striking any person alive on this Earth. That's the truth of both double edged swords and technology alike. It's clear that morality has a larger part to play in the future of society than it does even now...

Drones, missiles, lasers, coil-guns, all are scary things when used improperly or immorally. The leaders of our world should be setting an example for the world that morality is above all else, and that having the ability to kill with these weapons doesn't give one the privilege, right, or authority to use them without just cause based on good judgements by moral characters. That's about 180* out from how the world leadership appears to be acting now.

I wouldn't say it's not productive.  That's like saying food stamps aren't productive because people just consume food and make shit from it.  I would say it's not the best use of our limited resources, esp at the current spending levels.

Our military is what takes over when local police can't handle a situation (LA riots, Katrina, Post 9/11 tower collapse).  Military technologies are used everyday for household needs, like GPS (which there would be pretty much no sats up there if there was no military).

You are right about tech superiority. When I went to HS the Chinese and Indian kids filled up my AP Calculus and Physics classes.  Same when I went to college and did biology, physiology and chemistry.  The only thing holding back India and China from becoming Japan part 2 is infrastructure.  Look at all the mining hardware and ASICs - it's sure as hell aint BFL leading the pack.  Actually the scammiest of all the scammers came from the US!  So sad.

[bryant.coleman]

Most of the American drone strikes are occurring in the Pakistan-Afghanistan region and Yemen. These countries are very dependent on the US for their defence needs. They might protest occasionally, but I don't foresee any reduction in the drone strikes in the near future.

[Justine]

You have to pay to read the full article?

The legal and morality issues surrounding drone strikes is very murky and as a result very scary.  That fact that Obama can order a drone strike on an AMERICAN in a foreign country is worrisome and sets a dangerous precedent. Anwar Al-Awlaki had extremist views and supported terrorism but he was an American citizen murdered by a drone without any sort of legal trial by a jury of his peers.

As an American I'm not really intimidated or scared by other countries gaining drones. The US defense budget is so bloated that America will maintain military supremacy for some time.

The threat to US military supremacy comes from within. The cost already put a huge pressure on local citizen and decaying infrastructure.

Not really, without the US military the money would be spent on something else and likely to less benefit.

For instance - I'm reminded of California where they took bonds intended to construct new schools (a lot of infrastructure in America is painfully old) and then (without consent) allocated $1 billion from that fund to buying ipads for kids.   Why not give every school child in America an IPAD at the cost of $1 trillion?  I'm sure China, where most Ipads are constructed, and the Apple corporation would love that.

At least the US military is one of the few actual American industries left, which employs Americans, even though the end results are unfortunately nefarious in nature.

You are correct on one hand, however the US military is a non-productive industry in that it doesn't sustain itself economically. There's no product produced, no service provided to the community, and all the salaries are paid with tax revenue rather than a self-regenerating source of income like other industries.

The US was always intended to be militarized beyond imagination, but not in the form of a permanent army controlled by the federal government... The duty of protecting this country is delegated within the Constitution; if you're a US citizen of able mind and body without immoral intentions then you are responsible both collectively and individually for the protection of this nation against all enemies; foreign and domestic... The Constitution depends and relies on morality being taught to the children of this country; they need the skills and ability to determine for themselves the differences between right and wrong and the personal strength to act against what they know is wrong, even knowing that they may be the only one taking action. This structure is necessary to minimize government expenses and reduce the risk of abuse.

As far as pulling military funding goes, there's no point. There's really no stopping this financial train wreck now. There's no need to change anything actually. Sadly, things will last longer without trying to fix what cannot be repaired... The longer our Congress remains inactive and constantly increases the debt ceiling, the longer we have until a crash results on its own. Acting now in an attempt to fix this situation would trigger a collapse...

As far as the drone supremacy goes, there is really no such thing as drone supremacy. The world is expanding its knowledge base far too quickly to believe in such a thing as a technological supremacy any more. There's a reality now that exists which didn't exist in previous decades. The reality is that any person of moderate intelligence has the resources available to learn, design, build, and effectively deploy a weapon capable of striking any person alive on this Earth. That's the truth of both double edged swords and technology alike. It's clear that morality has a larger part to play in the future of society than it does even now...

Drones, missiles, lasers, coil-guns, all are scary things when used improperly or immorally. The leaders of our world should be setting an example for the world that morality is above all else, and that having the ability to kill with these weapons doesn't give one the privilege, right, or authority to use them without just cause based on good judgements by moral characters. That's about 180* out from how the world leadership appears to be acting now.

I wouldn't say it's not productive.  That's like saying food stamps aren't productive because people just consume food and make shit from it.  I would say it's not the best use of our limited resources, esp at the current spending levels.

Our military is what takes over when local police can't handle a situation (LA riots, Katrina, Post 9/11 tower collapse).  Military technologies are used everyday for household needs, like GPS (which there would be pretty much no sats up there if there was no military).

You are right about tech superiority. When I went to HS the Chinese and Indian kids filled up my AP Calculus and Physics classes.  Same when I went to college and did biology, physiology and chemistry.  The only thing holding back India and China from becoming Japan part 2 is infrastructure.  Look at all the mining hardware and ASICs - it's sure as hell aint BFL leading the pack.  Actually the scammiest of all the scammers came from the US!  So sad.

China already have all the conditions needed to become a great power. All they need to do is un-peg their currency.

[bryant.coleman]

China already have all the conditions needed to become a great power. All they need to do is un-peg their currency.

No.

They don't have most of the conditions needed to become a great power.

How many allies do they have? Even Russia and Iran can't be trusted. Name one trusted ally of China (except DPRK). US is a great power, in part due to the NATO alliance.

[niothor]

China already have all the conditions needed to become a great power. All they need to do is un-peg their currency.

No.

They don't have most of the conditions needed to become a great power.

How many allies do they have? Even Russia and Iran can't be trusted. Name one trusted ally of China (except DPRK). US is a great power, in part due to the NATO alliance.

At last you have come to your senses. Nobody never can trust Russia.

[Ron~Popeil]

Soon drone jamming will be a big business for US defense contractors.

I don't have a problem with taking out terrorists with hellfire missiles. That is a great way to get them without doing major collateral damage and risking further bloodshed in all out military ops, but they did cross the line when they killed a citizen. That was a direct violation of the constitution. 

[newflesh]

Soon drone jamming will be a big business for US defense contractors.

Countries will probably be fighting drone wars with each other in the future, scary thought 

[Honeypot]

The hype around drones is amusing at best. These are remote controlled planes with limited programmable actions.

They are not 'terminator' machines, nor are they the very pinnacle of technology. They are merely convenient and relatively cheap tools in place of costly airstrikes or stealth planes.

The fact that they try to hype these up as the ultimate enemies then praise themselves for downing one is a good example of masturbatory fantasy being ridiculous.

[TaunSew]

The hype around drones is amusing at best. These are remote controlled planes with limited programmable actions.

They are not 'terminator' machines, nor are they the very pinnacle of technology. They are merely convenient and relatively cheap tools in place of costly airstrikes or stealth planes.

The fact that they try to hype these up as the ultimate enemies then praise themselves for downing one is a good example of masturbatory fantasy being ridiculous.

It's far from being a new technology.  It's one of those Hitlerian "Wunderwaffe" wonder weapons of the war on terror.  It saves down on manpower but otherwise it's debatable if they're worth the costs.

Yes even before the IT revolution - it was conceivable for the US to had fielded drones even as early as the 1960s, even though it was more economical just to have a scoutsmen with binoculars and a radio to key in coordinates for an artillery strike or aerial bombardment.  

That's the problem with drones is that it doesn't scale in a total war conflict.   The infrastructure to have guys sitting in high tech computer desks joysticking drones is more expensive than a platoons / companies of scouts.  The scouts only need MREs while the drones need maintenance.   As well, unless the scoutsmen is shot, he can't be neutralized by infrared signals or jammers like the one Iran used to capture that US drone a couple years ago




This is often forgotten but the first mass use of a military drone wasn't by the United States but *drum roll* *shock* Iran during the Iran-Iraq war in 1980 (and it was even equipped with missiles).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghods_Mohajer