day trading - what's the catch?

[Cryptopher]

I suggest with bitcoin, trading larger cycles, and not day trading.

how do you mean?

Instead of trying to profit from the <5% fluctuations that happen in the span of a few days, trade on large time-scales; ie. buy now and sell when the price is at 800$, then buy back at 600$, etc. This is less risky, since it depends less on luck.

I think that's what he meant.

It's all about opportunism. Set low buy orders, high sell orders - you never know if they are going to be filled, but if they are then you're laughing.

Flash dumps occur more frequently than you might be inclined to think - if you're one of the smart ones with a speculatively low buy order then you can profit massively if/when the dump hits the market you're trading in. I don't mean a few hundred dollars, or even over a timescale, the returns can be massive - many thousands from a few hundred, and almost instant by dumping in another market or exchange.

That's true.
For example on Feb 10, the price on btc-e dropped from $700 to $102 and went back up to $600 in a few hours.

That's right, I've seen LTC drop from £6.50 to £0.11 before too, and not just drop, 11000 LTC were sold at £0.11! I've profited a bit on a few occasions from these flash dumps.

This morning I woke up and saw that LTC dumped again, it missed my £2.211 buy order by a fraction, then shot up to £6.333. Unfortunately I missed out that time, but it's the way forward.

[Lieji]

This morning I woke up and saw that LTC dumped again, it missed my £2.211 buy order by a fraction, then shot up to £6.333. Unfortunately I missed out that time, but it's the way forward.

Interesting. I didn't follow the LTC/GBP trading pair on btc-e and have completely missed that dump.

[Cryptopher]

This morning I woke up and saw that LTC dumped again, it missed my £2.211 buy order by a fraction, then shot up to £6.333. Unfortunately I missed out that time, but it's the way forward.

Interesting. I didn't follow the LTC/GBP trading pair on btc-e and have completely missed that dump.

There have been some colossal dumps in that market, just as there have in some other markets too. I tend to only go for these flash dump opportunities.

[richardramirez9]

Is day trading all lucks?
and how do you know what alt will explode?

[lynn_402]

Is day trading all lucks?
and how do you know what alt will explode?

You know that by analysing a coin's community, the past performance of the price, how the coin is mined and at what rate, by looking for signs of pumps and dumps, and by analysing the order books.

Luck is important too, but if you're good enough to analyse the above points and be more than 50% accurate, you will most-likely end up winning in the long run.

[Cryptopher]

Is day trading all lucks?
and how do you know what alt will explode?

In my eyes most people just luck their way to wins - however there are ways to help yourself. Tracking patterns is one thing, but when the market is quiet it's really all about having the balls to buy in or sell before waiting for movement.

Of course, it's just about buying in and selling, it's a matter of timing and having the mental resolve to believe in your trade. That's why a lot of people, particular newbies tend to panic buy/panic sell.

Even those that often win with trades (or at least claim to do so) will lose occasionally, and those who lose will occasionally win.

[richardramirez9]

Is day trading all lucks?
and how do you know what alt will explode?

You know that by analysing a coin's community, the past performance of the price, how the coin is mined and at what rate, by looking for signs of pumps and dumps, and by analysing the order books.

Luck is important too, but if you're good enough to analyse the above points and be more than 50% accurate, you will most-likely end up winning in the long run.

But any whale can manipulate the order books, big ass sell or buy walls can dissapear and appear anytime 
Most of the time even if the mining power is high, what happen is when coin hit exchange, coin gets dumped really hard, look at the graphs. It always goes down a lot when a coin is introducen in an exchange, it goes really low, then sometimes after a while it goes up again, or the coin just dies (Mazacoin, Auroracoin.. etc)

[Cryptopher]

Is day trading all lucks?
and how do you know what alt will explode?

You know that by analysing a coin's community, the past performance of the price, how the coin is mined and at what rate, by looking for signs of pumps and dumps, and by analysing the order books.

Luck is important too, but if you're good enough to analyse the above points and be more than 50% accurate, you will most-likely end up winning in the long run.

But any whale can manipulate the order books, big ass sell or buy walls can dissapear and appear anytime 
Most of the time even if the mining power is high, what happen is when coin hit exchange, coin gets dumped really hard, look at the graphs. It always goes down a lot when a coin is introducen in an exchange, it goes really low, then sometimes after a while it goes up again, or the coin just dies (Mazacoin, Auroracoin.. etc)

Many of the new alt coins have their 15 minutes of fame - whereby there is some degree of mania in the market causing its price to become artificially inflated. It's almost as if they go through the Bitcoin timeline at a faster pace and on a smaller scale.

The early adopters/miners line their pockets while the average Joe who wanted to get rich from a new alt is out-of-pocket. Even if they got in early, they will hold and hold as the price goes down, expecting it to shoot back up.

[richardramirez9]

Is day trading all lucks?
and how do you know what alt will explode?

You know that by analysing a coin's community, the past performance of the price, how the coin is mined and at what rate, by looking for signs of pumps and dumps, and by analysing the order books.

Luck is important too, but if you're good enough to analyse the above points and be more than 50% accurate, you will most-likely end up winning in the long run.

But any whale can manipulate the order books, big ass sell or buy walls can dissapear and appear anytime 
Most of the time even if the mining power is high, what happen is when coin hit exchange, coin gets dumped really hard, look at the graphs. It always goes down a lot when a coin is introducen in an exchange, it goes really low, then sometimes after a while it goes up again, or the coin just dies (Mazacoin, Auroracoin.. etc)

Many of the new alt coins have their 15 minutes of fame - whereby there is some degree of mania in the market causing its price to become artificially inflated. It's almost as if they go through the Bitcoin timeline at a faster pace and on a smaller scale.

The early adopters/miners line their pockets while the average Joe who wanted to get rich from a new alt is out-of-pocket. Even if they got in early, they will hold and hold as the price goes down, expecting it to shoot back up.

Yeah but my point is... being an early adopter with altcoins is even a beneficial thing? let us look at this graph:

https://poloniex.com/exchange/btc_xbc

this is the typical lifespan of an alt. If you get in early, you are already buying on the pump, which is basically guys that are in the mining time big time with powerful hashing power, dumping all the coins mined while the coin wasn't listed on any exchange. So what this means is, if you buy, you are fucked because you are already buying high.

Sometimes tho, the coin starts slow and goes higher, like BC or DRK. The thing is, you never know if you are buying high or low at the begining.

[Cryptopher]

Is day trading all lucks?
and how do you know what alt will explode?

You know that by analysing a coin's community, the past performance of the price, how the coin is mined and at what rate, by looking for signs of pumps and dumps, and by analysing the order books.

Luck is important too, but if you're good enough to analyse the above points and be more than 50% accurate, you will most-likely end up winning in the long run.

But any whale can manipulate the order books, big ass sell or buy walls can dissapear and appear anytime 
Most of the time even if the mining power is high, what happen is when coin hit exchange, coin gets dumped really hard, look at the graphs. It always goes down a lot when a coin is introducen in an exchange, it goes really low, then sometimes after a while it goes up again, or the coin just dies (Mazacoin, Auroracoin.. etc)

Many of the new alt coins have their 15 minutes of fame - whereby there is some degree of mania in the market causing its price to become artificially inflated. It's almost as if they go through the Bitcoin timeline at a faster pace and on a smaller scale.

The early adopters/miners line their pockets while the average Joe who wanted to get rich from a new alt is out-of-pocket. Even if they got in early, they will hold and hold as the price goes down, expecting it to shoot back up.

Yeah but my point is... being an early adopter with altcoins is even a beneficial thing? let us look at this graph:

https://poloniex.com/exchange/btc_xbc

this is the typical lifespan of an alt. If you get in early, you are already buying on the pump, which is basically guys that are in the mining time big time with powerful hashing power, dumping all the coins mined while the coin wasn't listed on any exchange. So what this means is, if you buy, you are fucked because you are already buying high.

Sometimes tho, the coin starts slow and goes higher, like BC or DRK. The thing is, you never know if you are buying high or low at the begining.

You can still get in on the pump and make some great profits, it's all about identifying that you are buying in on a pump and being prepared to exit within a short time. It all comes down to your expectations, plan and execution.

Luck is important too as somebody might dump hard just after you buy.

[richardramirez9]

Is day trading all lucks?
and how do you know what alt will explode?

You know that by analysing a coin's community, the past performance of the price, how the coin is mined and at what rate, by looking for signs of pumps and dumps, and by analysing the order books.

Luck is important too, but if you're good enough to analyse the above points and be more than 50% accurate, you will most-likely end up winning in the long run.

But any whale can manipulate the order books, big ass sell or buy walls can dissapear and appear anytime 
Most of the time even if the mining power is high, what happen is when coin hit exchange, coin gets dumped really hard, look at the graphs. It always goes down a lot when a coin is introducen in an exchange, it goes really low, then sometimes after a while it goes up again, or the coin just dies (Mazacoin, Auroracoin.. etc)

Many of the new alt coins have their 15 minutes of fame - whereby there is some degree of mania in the market causing its price to become artificially inflated. It's almost as if they go through the Bitcoin timeline at a faster pace and on a smaller scale.

The early adopters/miners line their pockets while the average Joe who wanted to get rich from a new alt is out-of-pocket. Even if they got in early, they will hold and hold as the price goes down, expecting it to shoot back up.

Yeah but my point is... being an early adopter with altcoins is even a beneficial thing? let us look at this graph:

https://poloniex.com/exchange/btc_xbc

this is the typical lifespan of an alt. If you get in early, you are already buying on the pump, which is basically guys that are in the mining time big time with powerful hashing power, dumping all the coins mined while the coin wasn't listed on any exchange. So what this means is, if you buy, you are fucked because you are already buying high.

Sometimes tho, the coin starts slow and goes higher, like BC or DRK. The thing is, you never know if you are buying high or low at the begining.

You can still get in on the pump and make some great profits, it's all about identifying that you are buying in on a pump and being prepared to exit within a short time. It all comes down to your expectations, plan and execution.

Luck is important too as somebody might dump hard just after you buy.

yes this always happen to me, when i buy, I say "wait a little bit longer", then it starts to fall, i say "wait a little bit longer it will go back up". End result: I end money and end up with toxic assets

[Cryptopher]

Is day trading all lucks?
and how do you know what alt will explode?

You know that by analysing a coin's community, the past performance of the price, how the coin is mined and at what rate, by looking for signs of pumps and dumps, and by analysing the order books.

Luck is important too, but if you're good enough to analyse the above points and be more than 50% accurate, you will most-likely end up winning in the long run.

But any whale can manipulate the order books, big ass sell or buy walls can dissapear and appear anytime 
Most of the time even if the mining power is high, what happen is when coin hit exchange, coin gets dumped really hard, look at the graphs. It always goes down a lot when a coin is introducen in an exchange, it goes really low, then sometimes after a while it goes up again, or the coin just dies (Mazacoin, Auroracoin.. etc)

Many of the new alt coins have their 15 minutes of fame - whereby there is some degree of mania in the market causing its price to become artificially inflated. It's almost as if they go through the Bitcoin timeline at a faster pace and on a smaller scale.

The early adopters/miners line their pockets while the average Joe who wanted to get rich from a new alt is out-of-pocket. Even if they got in early, they will hold and hold as the price goes down, expecting it to shoot back up.

Yeah but my point is... being an early adopter with altcoins is even a beneficial thing? let us look at this graph:

https://poloniex.com/exchange/btc_xbc

this is the typical lifespan of an alt. If you get in early, you are already buying on the pump, which is basically guys that are in the mining time big time with powerful hashing power, dumping all the coins mined while the coin wasn't listed on any exchange. So what this means is, if you buy, you are fucked because you are already buying high.

Sometimes tho, the coin starts slow and goes higher, like BC or DRK. The thing is, you never know if you are buying high or low at the begining.

You can still get in on the pump and make some great profits, it's all about identifying that you are buying in on a pump and being prepared to exit within a short time. It all comes down to your expectations, plan and execution.

Luck is important too as somebody might dump hard just after you buy.

yes this always happen to me, when i buy, I say "wait a little bit longer", then it starts to fall, i say "wait a little bit longer it will go back up". End result: I end money and end up with toxic assets

Yup, that's daytrading for you. It's all about setting expectations and trying not to be greedy. The more of a loss that you are at then the more likely you are to want more profits out of necessity to recoup your losses.

Those who got in early can afford to simply hodl, whilst dabbling with some of their coins on the markets.

[ezreal]

I think a lot of people think they can strike it rich by day trading, but very few people can make a living off of it. It takes up a lot of your time as well, but good luck if you try it.

Spot on.

Day trading is a loser game.

How come some people still do it then?

[HarmonLi]

I think a lot of people think they can strike it rich by day trading, but very few people can make a living off of it. It takes up a lot of your time as well, but good luck if you try it.

Spot on.

Day trading is a loser game.

don't know about that. lots of traders have winning systems. some also use algorithmic systems as well and do not have to spend all day charting.

[lynn_402]

I think a lot of people think they can strike it rich by day trading, but very few people can make a living off of it. It takes up a lot of your time as well, but good luck if you try it.

Spot on.

Day trading is a loser game.

How come some people still do it then?

If you're not too greedy, and you're satisfied with profits of about 10% on a trade, and you don't panic sell or buy, it's not that hard not to lose money really.

[Aptidude]

It can be very frustrating when you lose money through order book friction.

[HarmonLi]

I think a lot of people think they can strike it rich by day trading, but very few people can make a living off of it. It takes up a lot of your time as well, but good luck if you try it.

Spot on.

Day trading is a loser game.

How come some people still do it then?

If you're not too greedy, and you're satisfied with profits of about 10% on a trade, and you don't panic sell or buy, it's not that hard not to lose money really.

yep, just got to cut out that panic! i don't use leverage, so when i'm wrong on long, i just hold that bag until i am in profit again! worked this morning.

[Cryptopher]

I think a lot of people think they can strike it rich by day trading, but very few people can make a living off of it. It takes up a lot of your time as well, but good luck if you try it.

Spot on.

Day trading is a loser game.

How come some people still do it then?

If you're not too greedy, and you're satisfied with profits of about 10% on a trade, and you don't panic sell or buy, it's not that hard not to lose money really.

The trouble is that the caveats you listed are some of the hardest things to conquer for many new traders. Even after time it's hard to shake off a habit. Aside from the discipline that you mentioned, it's all about believing in your trade.

I'm a terrible day trader, I am ultra bear short-term e.g. the belief that someone will dump hard and trigger something bigger when I buy in. It can take quite a while to recover, as I have found out with Peercoin of late.

[lynn_402]

I think a lot of people think they can strike it rich by day trading, but very few people can make a living off of it. It takes up a lot of your time as well, but good luck if you try it.

Spot on.

Day trading is a loser game.

How come some people still do it then?

If you're not too greedy, and you're satisfied with profits of about 10% on a trade, and you don't panic sell or buy, it's not that hard not to lose money really.

The trouble is that the caveats you listed are some of the hardest things to conquer for many new traders. Even after time it's hard to shake off a habit. Aside from the discipline that you mentioned, it's all about believing in your trade.

That's true, everyone starts there and I panicked many times at first

But one gets better with practice, and that's why it's important, when starting, to only try with very small amounts that you won't mind losing.

[Cryptopher]

I think a lot of people think they can strike it rich by day trading, but very few people can make a living off of it. It takes up a lot of your time as well, but good luck if you try it.

Spot on.

Day trading is a loser game.

How come some people still do it then?

If you're not too greedy, and you're satisfied with profits of about 10% on a trade, and you don't panic sell or buy, it's not that hard not to lose money really.

The trouble is that the caveats you listed are some of the hardest things to conquer for many new traders. Even after time it's hard to shake off a habit. Aside from the discipline that you mentioned, it's all about believing in your trade.

That's true, everyone starts there and I panicked many times at first

But one gets better with practice, and that's why it's important, when starting, to only try with very small amounts that you won't mind losing.

I always tell myself after a bad trade or a missed opportunity that I should look out for these hallmarks and avoid/take the trade instead the next time - though I still make the same mistakes. I think that I judge myself against the 'perfect' trade too often, which leaves me a little disappointed.

It's sad to think that for all the profit people make, there are losers out there - but that's the fundamental of such a market and a risk everybody needs to remind themselves when going into this.