★[ANN] [NAV] NAV COIN - Community Fund Live!!!

[tspacepilot]

You guys never got back to me or answered about whether your coin has any official ties to the navajo nation.  I really think that if it does not, you should reconsider the name for two reasons:

1) History of malignment from european colonizer society against first nations of Americas, this includes cultural appropriation without credit.
2) If your coin is actually successful in the long run you will eventually be sued for trademark/name infringement by the actual Navajos.

Just my opinion, I wonder why you guys don't reply to this point.

1) The ethnicity of the DEVELOPERS and USERS of NAVAJOCOIN are DIVERSE and IRRELEVANT

I'm happy to hear that you're diverse however, it's hard to see how this is irrelevant.

2) We do not owe anybody an apology for choosing NAVAJO as our coin name.

When you steal the identity of a maligned population and having no actual association with them this is quite wrong.  I'm not saying you have done this, yet, if you believe that you can call yourself Navajo without actually being a Navajo (some people are, some people aren't, this is a fact of a life), then I think you're missing a reality check.  Again, my opinion.

Imagine I start ENGLISHCOIN  Then I go around doing things in this name.  You say that the people of England have no interest or claim to my usage of the name of their nation?  Now consider switching England (a powerful, first world country) out for a people who have been attacked, subjugated, had treaties broken, etc and still they exist today.  Imagine that someone from the culture who maligned these people was now running around using their name for a project they have nothing to do with.  I don't know whether this is the case but surely you can see how foolish it is to think you have a right to use the name of a People for a project which has nothing to do with them, and without even consulting.

3) We do not need to be tied down by imaginary rules and regulations

Is ethics and morals imaginary?  Do you consider history to be irrelevant?

My point is that if you consult with Navajo nation you might actually find a willing partner (who knows?).  You might actually pay them honor (presumably this is your intention in using their name).  However, if you steal without consulting then that surely is not honor.

I hope you can think about this further.  Perhaps look twice at the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.  http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/DRIPS_en.pdf

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[GREEDYJOHN]

You guys never got back to me or answered about whether your coin has any official ties to the navajo nation.  I really think that if it does not, you should reconsider the name for two reasons:

1) History of malignment from european colonizer society against first nations of Americas, this includes cultural appropriation without credit.
2) If your coin is actually successful in the long run you will eventually be sued for trademark/name infringement by the actual Navajos.

Just my opinion, I wonder why you guys don't reply to this point.

1) The ethnicity of the DEVELOPERS and USERS of NAVAJOCOIN are DIVERSE and IRRELEVANT

I'm happy to hear that you're diverse however, it's hard to see how this is irrelevant.

2) We do not owe anybody an apology for choosing NAVAJO as our coin name.

When you steal the identity of a maligned population and having no actual association with them this is quite wrong.  I'm not saying you have done this, yet, if you believe that you can call yourself Navajo without actually being a Navajo (some people are, some people aren't, this is a fact of a life), then I think you're missing a reality check.  Again, my opinion.

Imagine I start ENGLISHCOIN  Then I go around doing things in this name.  You say that the people of England have no interest or claim to my usage of the name of their nation?  Now consider switching England (a powerful, first world country) out for a people who have been attacked, subjugated, had treaties broken, etc and still they exist today.  Imagine that someone from the culture who maligned these people was now running around using their name for a project they have nothing to do with.  I don't know whether this is the case but surely you can see how foolish it is to think you have a right to use the name of a People for a project which has nothing to do with them, and without even consulting.

3) We do not need to be tied down by imaginary rules and regulations

Is ethics and morals imaginary?  Do you consider history to be irrelevant?

My point is that if you consult with Navajo nation you might actually find a willing partner (who knows?).  You might actually pay them honor (presumably this is your intention in using their name).  However, if you steal without consulting then that surely is not honor.

I hope you can think about this further.  Perhaps look twice at the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.  http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/DRIPS_en.pdf

3) We do not need to be tied down by imaginary rules and regulations

[BitcoinFr34k]

I have been following this thread some time. I invested a few BTC from last dump. I predict 15k sat when anon will be online. Good work DEV

[hennessj]

Irishcoin is a good name too.  And we would entertain no fantasies about have a property right in the name.

Your problem is that you know no history or much of anything else but have what Eric Hoffer decried as 'the passionate state of min.'

I suggest that the moderator block this pseudo-lieftie-political stuff.

[tspacepilot]

3) We do not need to be tied down by imaginary rules and regulations

It's a shame (and embarrassing, IMO) that you consider ethics to be imaginary. 

Irishcoin is a good name too.  And we would entertain no fantasies about have a property right in the name.

Your problem is that you know no history or much of anything else but have what Eric Hoffer decried as 'the passionate state of min.'

I suggest that the moderator block this pseudo-lieftie-political stuff.

I'm not sure why you want to drop some kind of ad-hominem attack on me about what history I might or might not know.  All I can do is point to you to the external resources which might edify your state of mind.  As they say, you can lead a horse to water...

Since you (at least the two who bothered to reply) seeminly have no interest in discussing or rectifying what, prima facie, is a morally repugnant stance towards first nations and their rights, I'll leave off posting here with this reiterated warning:

1) You may not see cultural appropriation as problematic, but many people do, and that obviously will affect your bottom line in the long run.
2) Should you manage to gather any actual success in your project while ignoring the ethnocentrism and institutional racisim embodied in your project's name, you'll eventually have to face the fact that legally, only the Navajo nation has a right to call something Navajo (a quick google search turns up many such cases, here's a random one just to show you waht I mean: http://www.culturalsurvival.org/ourpublications/csq/article/protecting-american-indian-intellectual-property-twenty-first-century-th).

Okay, assuming no further replies from you all, I will not post here again.  If the moderator does decide to delete this post or others (this is, after all, a self-moderated thread), then I will simply post this material in a new thread because I want to be on the record as having brought this up with you.

[CryptoJohn]

3) We do not need to be tied down by imaginary rules and regulations

It's a shame (and embarrassing, IMO) that you consider ethics to be imaginary.  

Irishcoin is a good name too.  And we would entertain no fantasies about have a property right in the name.

Your problem is that you know no history or much of anything else but have what Eric Hoffer decried as 'the passionate state of min.'

I suggest that the moderator block this pseudo-lieftie-political stuff.

I'm not sure why you want to drop some kind of ad-hominem attack on me about what history I might or might not know.  All I can do is point to you to the external resources which might edify your state of mind.  As they say, you can lead a horse to water...

Since you (at least the two who bothered to reply) seeminly have no interest in discussing or rectifying what, prima facie, is a morally repugnant stance towards first nations and their rights, I'll leave off posting here with this reiterated warning:

1) You may not see cultural appropriation as problematic, but many people do, and that obviously will affect your bottom line in the long run.
2) Should you manage to gather any actual success in your project while ignoring the ethnocentrism and institutional racisim embodied in your project's name, you'll eventually have to face the fact that legally, only the Navajo nation has a right to call something Navajo (a quick google search turns up many such cases, here's a random one just to show you waht I mean: http://www.culturalsurvival.org/ourpublications/csq/article/protecting-american-indian-intellectual-property-twenty-first-century-th).

Okay, assuming no further replies from you all, I will not post here again.  If the moderator does decide to delete this post or others (this is, after all, a self-moderated thread), then I will simply post this material in a new thread because I want to be on the record as having brought this up with you.

Seriously pilot, get a life.

The the coins name is NavajoCoin and it honors peoples sacrifice.
The coin is not named NavajoTribeCoin or NavajoIndianCoin or ToHellWithTheNavajosCoin. Then it seems we would have a problem.

Everyone knows the history of the american indian. It was wrong and tragic but it's history, hence in the past.
The negro was grossly treated as well and enslaved, should we go over to the BlackCoin thread and start a similar conversation?

We are glad you have taken your first law class but please try to understand the difference between political correctness and stupidity for the sake of being verbose.

[BitZCoin]

At least, just a coin.. And not even that... Just not 2015, but more like the end of 2013, which was also not even the future, but just trash and at least a nice kind of try

[ivankoh]

oh please no America history and political lesson here. Not all American here and it is crypto currency mean it is not control by any country and it is online currency. Please start own thread in off topic section maybe.
Please focus on Navajocoin and it is future development.

People please vote https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=985422.0

[tspacepilot]

...
Okay, assuming no further replies from you all, I will not post here again.  If the moderator does decide to delete this post or others (this is, after all, a self-moderated thread), then I will simply post this material in a new thread because I want to be on the record as having brought this up with you.

Seriously pilot, get a life.

The the coins name is NavajoCoin and it honors peoples sacrifice.
The coin is not named NavajoTribeCoin or NavajoIndianCoin or ToHellWithTheNavajosCoin. Then it seems we would have a problem.

Everyone knows the history of the american indian. It was wrong and tragic but it's history, hence in the past.
The negro was grossly treated as well and enslaved, should we go over to the BlackCoin thread and start a similar conversation?

We are glad you have taken your first law class but please try to understand the difference between political correctness and stupidity for the sake of being verbose.

CryptoJohn, you are engaging with me so I post again here only to reply.

Yet another facet of institutional racism is embodied in your message.  I can put it succinctly: the Navajo nation is not "history", they are a currently living, vibrant, real people with a political and business structure and only they have the right to decide how their name is applied to business endeavours.  I understand that the intention of this project is to do honor, yet to co-opt the name of a maligned people without asking them whether they want to be associated with your project is yet another incursion on their rights.

Your example of the negro and the word black misses.  "Black" is not the name of an indigenous Nation.  "Navajo" is not a generic English adjective.

You say that "everyone knows the story of the american indian", but is this true?  Does everyone know that American Indian nations are not just "history" but are currently existing nations with the right to self-determination even now?  Your own comments seem to suggest that you are not aware of this and/or you discount it in some way.

[tspacepilot]

oh please no America history and political lesson here. Not all American here and it is crypto currency mean it is not control by any country and it is online currency. Please start own thread in off topic section maybe.
Please focus on Navajocoin and it is future development.

People please vote https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=985422.0

Perhaps a positive and wonderful step in the development of NavajoCoin would be for the dev team to contact the Navajo and see if they want to be your partners: http://www.navajo-nsn.gov/

I am not trolling you guys, I have simply brought up an important point, it's too bad the community here seems so set on missing the opportunity to take this in a positive direction.

Again, if you guys do not reply to this post, I will no longer post here.  But if you continue to reply, I will of course respond as well as I can.

[ivankoh]

oh please no America history and political lesson here. Not all American here and it is crypto currency mean it is not control by any country and it is online currency. Please start own thread in off topic section maybe.
Please focus on Navajocoin and it is future development.

People please vote https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=985422.0

Perhaps a positive and wonderful step in the development of NavajoCoin would be for the dev team to contact the Navajo and see if they want to be your partners: http://www.navajo-nsn.gov/

I am not trolling you guys, I have simply brought up an imporant point, it's too bad the community here seems so set on missing the opportunity to take this in a positive direction.

Are you sure you in the right forum? dude this is bitcoin forum. Why do developer have to contact USA gov? USA does not own the world.

[tspacepilot]

oh please no America history and political lesson here. Not all American here and it is crypto currency mean it is not control by any country and it is online currency. Please start own thread in off topic section maybe.
Please focus on Navajocoin and it is future development.

People please vote https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=985422.0

Perhaps a positive and wonderful step in the development of NavajoCoin would be for the dev team to contact the Navajo and see if they want to be your partners: http://www.navajo-nsn.gov/

I am not trolling you guys, I have simply brought up an imporant point, it's too bad the community here seems so set on missing the opportunity to take this in a positive direction.

Are you sure you in the right forum? dude this is bitcoin forum. Why do developer have to contact USA gov? USA does not own the world.

The government of the Navajo nation is not the government of the United States.  Navajo Nation is a soverign nation.  You guys say you wish to honor Navajo code talkers, why would you refuse to contact the Navajo nation and ask them what they think of this?  I don't understand the negativity here.

[juguelio]

...
Okay, assuming no further replies from you all, I will not post here again.  If the moderator does decide to delete this post or others (this is, after all, a self-moderated thread), then I will simply post this material in a new thread because I want to be on the record as having brought this up with you.

Seriously pilot, get a life.

The the coins name is NavajoCoin and it honors peoples sacrifice.
The coin is not named NavajoTribeCoin or NavajoIndianCoin or ToHellWithTheNavajosCoin. Then it seems we would have a problem.

Everyone knows the history of the american indian. It was wrong and tragic but it's history, hence in the past.
The negro was grossly treated as well and enslaved, should we go over to the BlackCoin thread and start a similar conversation?

We are glad you have taken your first law class but please try to understand the difference between political correctness and stupidity for the sake of being verbose.

CryptoJohn, you are engaging with me so I post again here only to reply.

Yet another facet of institutional racism is embodied in your message.  I can put it succinctly: the Navajo nation is not "history", they are a currently living, vibrant, real people with a political and business structure and only they have the right to decide how their name is applied to business endeavours.  I understand that the intention of this project is to do honor, yet to co-opt the name of a maligned people without asking them whether they want to be associated with your project is yet another incursion on their rights.

Your example of the negro and the word black misses.  "Black" is not the name of an indigenous Nation.  "Navajo" is not a generic English adjective.

You say that "everyone knows the story of the american indian", but is this true?  Does everyone know that American Indian nations are not just "history" but are currently existing nations with the right to self-determination even now?  Your own comments seem to suggest that you are not aware of this and/or you discount it in some way.

Hi guys.... I don't see how they would take developers to court...this is crypto world!!!!
I wish they contact us...that would mean a huge succes of this development. If they do we as a community could donate NavajoCoins to help the strugglin community to set up another Casino... (There's a big controversy in the Navajo nation at the moment with their president http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2790494/washington-redskins-owner-sits-navajo-nation-president-game-against-arizona-cardinals-latest-attempt-defend-team-s-racist-name.html)

[kalani91]

Whoever has the ability to delete posts please delete this american history of navajo nonsense. Thanks!

[GREEDYJOHN]

oh please no America history and political lesson here. Not all American here and it is crypto currency mean it is not control by any country and it is online currency. Please start own thread in off topic section maybe.
Please focus on Navajocoin and it is future development.

People please vote https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=985422.0

Perhaps a positive and wonderful step in the development of NavajoCoin would be for the dev team to contact the Navajo and see if they want to be your partners: http://www.navajo-nsn.gov/

I am not trolling you guys, I have simply brought up an imporant point, it's too bad the community here seems so set on missing the opportunity to take this in a positive direction.

Are you sure you in the right forum? dude this is bitcoin forum. Why do developer have to contact USA gov? USA does not own the world.

+1,000,000
We are a coin, we have no business with all this politics. Why is he leading us directly to a Government Authority? This man needs to be AVOIDED at all cost.

[ivankoh]

oh please no America history and political lesson here. Not all American here and it is crypto currency mean it is not control by any country and it is online currency. Please start own thread in off topic section maybe.
Please focus on Navajocoin and it is future development.

People please vote https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=985422.0

Perhaps a positive and wonderful step in the development of NavajoCoin would be for the dev team to contact the Navajo and see if they want to be your partners: http://www.navajo-nsn.gov/

I am not trolling you guys, I have simply brought up an imporant point, it's too bad the community here seems so set on missing the opportunity to take this in a positive direction.

Are you sure you in the right forum? dude this is bitcoin forum. Why do developer have to contact USA gov? USA does not own the world.

The government of the Navajo nation is not the government of the United States.  Navajo Nation is a soverign nation.  You guys say you wish to honor Navajo code talkers, why would you refuse to contact the Navajo nation and ask them what they think of this?  I don't understand the negativity here.

ok so why don't you go ahead contact them ask them what they think of this if you so interested? With wasting so much time writing here you could have email them already?  It is too much for us to call long distance to them maybe you can call them up easily. Anyway thanks for helping. Bye Bye...adios

[GREEDYJOHN]

This person is using a different method to create FUD.

[bspus]

Imagine I start ENGLISHCOIN  Then I go around doing things in this name.

Country coins are so last year, not to mention it's been done to death.

You never commented on the usage of the Apache name from my previous post.

And congrats on dominating almost a full page of this thread on a sidetracked conversation that really has nothing to do with the coin

[bocyaj]

You know, if this coin isn't actually affiliated with the Navajo nation I think you guys should really reconsider this name.  I mean, given the history of european colonizers and American first peoples it really can be seen as quite offensive to steal the name of their nation and put it on a technology project which isn't in any way actually affiliated with the Navajo.  That's just my opinion.

[quote

Hi, we share the same sentiments about that, and I've pitched an idea
To hashforce101 to involve the tribe.  I think it's a good idea but of course
The navajocoin foundation would have approve it.  There are only a handful of code talkers
Still alive.    But we'll have to get over
This cryptsy speedbump first.   Things never work out as fast as planned, right?
First things first I guess, let's get this show on the road

This person is using a different method to create FUD.

At first I thought you were being sincere with your concerns/comment.  But after digging through the thread history, I realized that you got an answer 30 minutes after you posted your concern initially a couple days ago.  Maybe you missed it, but I am now with GREEDYJOHN and think you are trying to create FUD, especially given the timing.

If I am wrong, I apologize.  Your concerns have been noted and the Foundation will have to decide on appropriate actions to take once the storm settles.  I think this topic was brought up months and months ago when we switched the name, but not exactly sure what the verdict/conclusion was ( not digging that far back).

Anyways, I assure you, we (the community and devs) in no way want to disrespect the Navajo Nation and urge you to put this aside for now and buy some coins. :-)

Cheers.

[hrshak462]

I can't wait to do a woo woo woo dance around a fire when this blows up.

edit: this was wrong