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Author Topic: New 14nm miners???????  (Read 5749 times)
Hunyadi
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August 30, 2014, 04:35:27 PM
 #41

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/14nm-bitcoin-asic-announcement.html

BlackArrow + 14nm  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

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dyask
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August 31, 2014, 01:44:17 AM
 #42

This is still way out there in time.   Assuming it all goes well chips are not available until May, 2015.   Systems would be after that.    You have a long time for your happy dance.   Does seem a lot more possible though.
Klubknuckle
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August 31, 2014, 03:13:33 AM
 #43

Black arrow have bad records right? Not worth to risk.

DrG
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August 31, 2014, 03:20:19 AM
 #44

The only way BA is making 14nm ASICs is if they make 28nm stuff and cut it in 1/2 with a Ginsu knife.

Their track record speaks volumes.  Anybody jumping on that is just funding their shadiness.














 

 

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dyask
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August 31, 2014, 04:40:46 AM
 #45

The only way BA is making 14nm ASICs is if they make 28nm stuff and cut it in 1/2 with a Ginsu knife.

Their track record speaks volumes.  Anybody jumping on that is just funding their shadiness.
Strangely I'm not surprised to hear that. 
Hunyadi
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August 31, 2014, 06:46:20 AM
 #46

This is still way out there in time.   Assuming it all goes well chips are not available until May, 2015.   Systems would be after that.    You have a long time for your happy dance.   Does seem a lot more possible though.

I meant, BlackArrow, or any other bitcoinASIC-company, wont be able to produce 14nm-chips in years. Come on.

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Mabsark
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August 31, 2014, 03:15:05 PM
 #47

The only way anyone except Intel is making 14nm bitcoin ASICs is if they pay a shit load of money to Intel.
rograz
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August 31, 2014, 11:49:59 PM
 #48

The only way anyone except Intel is making 14nm bitcoin ASICs is if they pay a shit load of money to Intel.

TBH, Intel is barely making stuff on 14nm ;P
bbeesley
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September 01, 2014, 01:02:27 AM
 #49

The only way anyone except Intel is making 14nm bitcoin ASICs is if they pay a shit load of money to Intel.

or to someone....14nm is a pretty significant scaling hurdle as we are starting to build chips with components that are only a few atoms across

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/97469-is-14nm-the-end-of-the-road-for-silicon-lithography

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dyask
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September 01, 2014, 04:10:18 AM
 #50

The only way anyone except Intel is making 14nm bitcoin ASICs is if they pay a shit load of money to Intel.

or to someone....14nm is a pretty significant scaling hurdle as we are starting to build chips with components that are only a few atoms across

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/97469-is-14nm-the-end-of-the-road-for-silicon-lithography

Very interesting article.    However, it may be possible for companies to get Intel to make the chips.   I expect that would be very costly though.    Probably currently way out to the reach of smaller companies.   
promojo
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September 01, 2014, 04:50:55 AM
 #51

Well either the power becomes a major factor or if the growth is slow then the 2016 halving will stop it.

Yup, once the halving happens it will be a whole new game.   

What will halving do to miners?  Please elaborate
dyask
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September 01, 2014, 05:19:48 AM
 #52

Well either the power becomes a major factor or if the growth is slow then the 2016 halving will stop it.

Yup, once the halving happens it will be a whole new game.   

What will halving do to miners?  Please elaborate
Block awards are half, so income per block is half.
promojo
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September 01, 2014, 05:52:23 AM
 #53

Well either the power becomes a major factor or if the growth is slow then the 2016 halving will stop it.

Yup, once the halving happens it will be a whole new game.   

What will halving do to miners?  Please elaborate
Block awards are half, so income per block is half.

Why would they do that though?
dyask
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September 01, 2014, 07:16:11 AM
 #54

Well either the power becomes a major factor or if the growth is slow then the 2016 halving will stop it.

Yup, once the halving happens it will be a whole new game.  

What will halving do to miners?  Please elaborate
Block awards are half, so income per block is half.

Why would they do that though?
Dude!  You better go learn some basics.  There isn't any wanting involved, it is just part of how bitcoin works.   Bitcoin mining was 50 BTC per block, now it is 25 BTC and in about 2 years it will be 12.5 BTC.   It will keep halving every 3 to 4 years until the award is just dust.  

Anyway run, don't walk to a bitcoin wiki and read up on some of the basics.  
promojo
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September 01, 2014, 07:18:54 AM
 #55

Well either the power becomes a major factor or if the growth is slow then the 2016 halving will stop it.

Yup, once the halving happens it will be a whole new game.   

What will halving do to miners?  Please elaborate
Block awards are half, so income per block is half.

Why would they do that though?
Dude!  You better go learn some basics.  There isn't any wanting involved, it is just part of how bitcoin works.   Bitcoin mining was 50 BTC per block, now it is 25 BTC and in about 2 years it will be 12.5 BTC.   It will keep halving every 3 to 4 years until the award is just dust.   

Any run, don't walk to a bitcoin wiki and read up on some of the basics.   

Sorry I misunderstood you.  I didn't know you were referring to the block award.  Yes I am familiar with that.  Thanks for the post.
Mabsark
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September 01, 2014, 06:55:30 PM
 #56

The only way anyone except Intel is making 14nm bitcoin ASICs is if they pay a shit load of money to Intel.

or to someone....14nm is a pretty significant scaling hurdle as we are starting to build chips with components that are only a few atoms across

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/97469-is-14nm-the-end-of-the-road-for-silicon-lithography

Very interesting article.    However, it may be possible for companies to get Intel to make the chips.   I expect that would be very costly though.    Probably currently way out to the reach of smaller companies.   

It is possible for external companies to use Intel's fabs. They're making the Stratix10 14nm FPGAs for Altera and 14nm SoCs for Panasonic to name 2 customers.
DrG
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September 01, 2014, 10:06:57 PM
 #57

There's no point to going towards 14nm when 20nm hasn't even been optimized.  28nm offerings are still sometimes more efficient than their 20nm brethren.  Spending money on improving the current design before stepping down to an expensive process should seem to be the better route.














 

 

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dyask
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September 01, 2014, 10:28:39 PM
 #58

There's no point to going towards 14nm when 20nm hasn't even been optimized.  28nm offerings are still sometimes more efficient than their 20nm brethren.  Spending money on improving the current design before stepping down to an expensive process should seem to be the better route.
Good point and besides everything I've read indicates that 14nm requires redesign to get any real advantages.   So companies should be focusing on optimizing first. 
Mabsark
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September 01, 2014, 11:24:26 PM
 #59

There's no point to going towards 14nm when 20nm hasn't even been optimized.  28nm offerings are still sometimes more efficient than their 20nm brethren.  Spending money on improving the current design before stepping down to an expensive process should seem to be the better route.

What 20nm brethren? There's only KnC's half-arsed rushed attempt so far. Also, making ASICs doesn't work the way you are describing it. You don't just take a highly optimised 28nm design and run it through the 20nm fab and end up with a highly optimised 20nm ASIC. The design usually has to be reworked because the actual fab process has changed and once working, it can then be optimised for that specific process.

DrG
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September 02, 2014, 08:28:54 AM
 #60

There's no point to going towards 14nm when 20nm hasn't even been optimized.  28nm offerings are still sometimes more efficient than their 20nm brethren.  Spending money on improving the current design before stepping down to an expensive process should seem to be the better route.

What 20nm brethren? There's only KnC's half-arsed rushed attempt so far. Also, making ASICs doesn't work the way you are describing it. You don't just take a highly optimised 28nm design and run it through the 20nm fab and end up with a highly optimised 20nm ASIC. The design usually has to be reworked because the actual fab process has changed and once working, it can then be optimised for that specific process.



Well I meant what you said - may not have come out right.  basically they're trying to take a leap too far ahead if they rush to 14nm.  Since it would be prohibitively expensive to do so they should just work on optimizing the 20 & 28nm stuff that they have right now.














 

 

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